I guess thats the big difference though - both concepts share a lot of similarities, but this idea, as opposed to your bar is different in that your bar has an expectation of profit, and has to be able to show how you will make one, to repay your creditors. THe people funding this exercise are 'donating' as such, for a common cause. there isn't an expectation of profit from it, and people are throwing in their own assistance (in whatever manner they can) to realise it. A big difference in the two is also demonstrated by what you're saying about getting the trains moved - sure, commercially, contracting a transport company to crane them onto a flatbed, drive them to the site, and then crane them off would be costly, but in reality - someone who supports the cause and owned a truck with a crane already fitted offered up their services to achieve the goal. I still think a formal plan with a structured organisation is the way to go, and you (like me and others) have every right to withhold our own investment into the concept until we can see the benefits to be had, but you are holding them to a 'commercial' standard in some of your examples and questions, when its more an 'enthusiast' group with no expectation of commercial gain. Sure - they may not succeed, but i'm reminded of a crackpot idea on these very boards once raised by someone we don't see very often anymore - called Zordmaker - you may recall he lobbied (unsuccessfully) to have the bush beast heritage listed, to prevent the bulldozers. His intention was for it to continue to operate, and therefore continue to generate an income, and his lack of planning in that respect was his downfall. This concept on the otherhand doesn't intend on trying to generate income, only to receive donations to cover costs... and this is a very big difference.