filament

Hi guys, I just thought about you reading this article from a friend of mine. Since this economical story about Euro Disney and the major difference in quality seems to interest you, and cause this is one of the only blog in english from a french speaker, maybe you could have some interest reading it : http://www.leparcorama.com/2013/07/14/the-increasingly-bad-state-of-disneyland-paris-a-neverending-story/ I would not be so negative by my own, but he is quite true I think. Will be ready to talk about this if you would love to.

The whole thing about "Disneyland Paris never did profit" is technically true, but that's really not so simple... As explained in a previous post I'm french and my english is really not perfect, so I'll try to explain the whole thing, hope it will be clear enough. If not please ask me for some details. To understand what happen in our main park (as main park in France, and in Europe, by far) you have to know french recent history and Walt Disney Company history. When Disneyland Anaheim turned to be a really profitable place for the company, the idea to go out of the country seemed to be not a bad one. But some China low copy of the park really pissed of boards and in particular Walt Disney. Then they said they will never go out of the country. After that they build WDW, we all know how big and successful this is now. We all know how Japan became one of the richest country in the world by pushing hard people to work. Everything as a limit so the country decided that they really need some short vacations destinations. They had some ideas, and one of them was a polder in Tokyo Bay with parks on it, including Disney. After lot of discussions Walt Disney Company finally said "hey yes, why not, but not our problem", and the owner of the park is a semi public company. When Disney only make small profits from the franchise and don't have choice on what to put in the park (well, say just "limited") even if everything is "Imagineering made". Then Tokyo Disneyland turned to be the most profitable park in the world (no idea if it's still the case). What a mistake for the WDC ! So proof that Disney parks can work out of America was made, there was not so much rich part in the world with lot of inhabitants. Next step was of course Europe. During this time France had his own troubles and success. The main trouble was that Paris was growing to be a city with everyone living in small flats and big old building were constructed everywhere in suburbs, which obviously was not nice : over populated, no green place (parks, water fountain...). Government decided to create what they call "New City" (Ville Nouvelle in french) to improve conditions of living for people. There was 5 of them, two of them are knowned outside of the country : Saint Quentin en Yvelines cause it's near Versailles (the famous french king castle, if you don't know google it, it worse it), and Marne la Vallée, now knowned for Disney. But Marne la Vallée was not really working, no one was going there and no company created new offices there. It needed : new public transportation to Paris (like suburbs trains, king of an extended subway), international connections without going to Paris (high speed train, we use it a log in France, and now Europe), and highway connections. Cost a lot ! So the idea was here after lot of discussions : Disney will come near Paris, they will have their park in Europe, and Paris will have his "New City" successful cause of the number of employees by Disney and by hotels / restaurants, etc... And cause of the taxes on companies. France did for free to Disney the trains connection (it's now on of the biggest hub in Europe, linked directly to Paris, London, Bruxelles by high speed trains), the suburbs transportation, the highway. And had now a new way to keep Paris the most visited city in the world, which is of course a main revenue for the country. And Disney had lot of advantages : lands for nothing, money advanced by french banks,, no construction about roads and transportation, etc... They said they wanted to go in Spain of French, this was just bullshit to win the best offer from France. At this time it was not a question : Spain was not a really rich country and France was (funny how things change in 25 years), Paris was in the center of the western Europe, Barcelona is at the dead end... To give you ideas of what I mean by "best offer", moreover that free infrastructure Disney is the only authorized architect for a part of the city (city, not park related, just normal people living here), they have a huge amount of waste ground in option (1947 ha !). It means that now it's not owned by Disney, they didn't have to pay for it cause it's not owned by them. But no one can use it / build on it, cause it's booked for Disney. They have some maximum date for each park of the ground until when this arrangement will end, so they have to use it or lose it one day or another. But the best point is : if they want to use it, they will pay it at the price of 1987 (date of the convention with the french government) and they can do what they want with it. So they can build new parks, accommodation or whatever or... they can sell it. Sell it with the price of today of course. And believe me prices in Paris have really changed since 1987 (if I believe wikipedia it has been multiplied by 4, so as Marne la Vallée was just a landscape and his now a big rich city, I'll let you imagine). Oh last but not the least they had some low taxes exception on parks entry tickets ! But Walt Disney Company is a really good money maker company, so they didn't the same error than in Japan, but didn't want to take some risk of an outside of America company. So Euro Disney SCA (ED SCA) is the company, this is a french company, which is owned at 40% per the Walt Disney Company (WDC). WDC is also the manager of the company, ED SCA has to pay them for this. WDC is also the only provider for new attractions, parks, hotels, concepts everything : ED SCA has to pay them for it. WDC is also the owner of the "Disney" trademark and so for every ride made, so to use the name and attraction created by Disney ED SCA has to pay for it. When merchandising with name or image of Disney is sold ED SCA has to pay for it. And if one day, by accident, they turn profitable they will have to give a part of it to WDC. So yeah WDC didn't take any risk, but no troubles if Euro Disney turned to be profitable. There was no risks cause there was so much money used to build that they have to pay a lot per year in interest and refund of banks (WDC since previous year by the way), they have to refresh parks and hotels and everything. So at the end here is the situation : - Euro Disney SCA lost a lot of money - France win a lot of money cause it's still the most visited country in the world, and Disneyland Paris really help for it. Example : 15.8 millions guest per year in Disneyland Paris, 8 millions in Louvre (where you can see the Joconde) - Walt Disney Company makes a lot of money with the park royalties and other things. So isn't the company profitable ? No it's not. Does it mean that the whole thing is not profitable ? No ! It's useful for the whole economy in France and WDC So should Disneyland Paris close cause of money troubles ? Hell no ! There is lot of books dedicated to the subject, but I'm afraid they are all in french. Again pardon my english. If you need some sources, documents, just ask, I can provide (when the Euro Disney SCA corporate website will be back online).

In this rcdb datas : http://rcdb.com/1365.htm It's about the one in Parque Warner Madrid which opened in 2002 and is not a relocation, they said it was about 6 millions €, which is between 7 and 10 millions of $. There is no source on this link, depends if you trust rcdb or not.

I would not worry too much about patent on this kind of rides : http://www.dynamicattractions.com/products.html (provider of Soarin' but this is their version of this ride wich they can sell) http://www.robocoaster.com/motion-theatre (partner of the previous one, but can be the provider too) http://www.blooloop.com/PressReleases/Simtec-presents-HEXaFLITE-theatre-at-IAAPA-2011/3170 (german company, independant from all the other) http://www.vekoma.com/index.php/specialities-and-attractions/panoramic-flight-simulator (no need to introduce them) http://www.intaminworldwide.com/amusement/Simulators/Panoramic+Flight+Simulator/tabid/137/ProductNumber/Panoramic+Flight+Simulator/language/de-DE/Default.aspx And I'm sure, some other manufacturers could be find. But yes you are right there is a patent on the way to do it. : http://www.google.com/patents/US6354954?dq=Sumner;+Mark+W.&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=-w03UafJA4fBPLSRgOAB&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ So if some manufacturer find another way (and in the previous bunch of links it seems like they did)

Hi, I'm reading your board a lot since some times, but had nothing to say until now. But cause you are talking about european rides, I could give you some informations maybe (I'm french, living in Belgium) : About that, please remember that Europe don't have your great and always hot weather that you have on Gold Coast (France is around 25°/30° in summer, and -10°/0° in winter) which explain a lot. But you are right : european doesn't like a lot to be wet in rides. For example our POTC have a lot of warning about the water, really can't be wet... but people are still complaining. Now that's said this is just a general point and there is of course exceptions. Like Valhalla (I was more wet in this ride than in Popeye), Tidal Wave, or some in Italia... The Raft Ride with a free fall, you are talking about, I believe you are thinking about River Quest at Phantasialand (Germany), and you have to know that in fact there is no free fall part. They never managed to have it working well and safe, so this part is just down. PS : sorry about my bad english, I'm currently trying to improve it.