GoGoBoy

I just tried changing my display settings to the resolution you mentioned Richard. It has made everything quite small though and some websites don't look quite right. I'll use the wonderland website as an example. The graphics and menu now only take up a small part of the page with lots of blank white space around the edges. When I was using the other resolution the website graphics filled the page perfectly. Do I need to upgrade my computer somehow or is this the same with everyone?

Richard - the only problem I have with the site is that it is currently a bit too long in length to navigate it easily. Not sure if this is something you were looking at tweaking. Maybe it is just my resolution?! At the moment, to see all the info I have to scroll across sideways as well as the usual up and down. Is there any way you can shrink it down to the same size as Total Thrills? With the current sizing it makes the main page look a bit sparse too

I like your point Richard about how the large influx of guests shows that Wonderland did have potential. I do hope Sunway will look at it that way and question their decision to some extent... although I highly doubt it. I was wondering though Richard, whether you think 2 months of extremely large attendances would be a large financial gain for the company? Or do you think when taking everything into account it may not be that much money afterall? I do realise that there are costs associated with closing down and also the fact that they are going to keep a number of staff on after the place closes its doors. Contrary to this however is the fact that the place would cost very little to run at the moment with minimal staff to pay (remembering that a large number of executive managers resigned recently), no major (expensive) shows, no advertising and minimal ride up-keep work. I also want to point out to anyone who may not realise it but Sunway is going to continue to have a substantial financial interest in the wonderland property as they are co-developing and co-leasing parts of the business park through Hartford Lane (their Australian subsidiary). Sunway may continue to gain from the site for some time into the future

Does it make anyone else angry that Sunway is benefiting thanks to massive crowds visiting Wonderland every day now? My guess is that more people will pass through the gates in the next 7 weeks than Wonderland would get in a year. The fact is Sunway is CLOSING the park so they can bulldoze it and make money from the land... yet they are making a fortune in the meantime with attendances and in-park spending. It doesn't seem fair to me. They haven't spent money on the park in 10 years and yet they are packing people through the gates like there is no tomorrow (which I guess for Wonderland, there isn't). Basically they are being rewarded for doing a bad thing to this city. Does this bother anyone else or is it just me? Maybe I need to relax a little. Richard, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think they will be making a killing right now? Do you think Sunway cares? I just hope none of our other theme parks get any ideas and see the potential goldmine that is apparantley available when announcing the closure of a park. Certainly more of a boost to visitor numbers than any new ride would create

I also agree that the DW article on that site is not particularly funny at all and found it kind of annoying actually. However, as someone else said, the article below it is hysterical. It's the one about Six Flags getting involved in seafood distribution to complement their exisiting theme park business and thereby adding extra revenue streams. Read it if you haven't. Very funny. By the way, where did the site gets its info about the Gyro Swing from? And do you think they really spoke to any officials at DW?

Daniel you've saved the day again. Sorry Rappa but I have to say that really was pretty bad Scenic World sounds like such a bizarre place. They must be doing ok financially though with such high prices. I would imagine all the asian tourists would flock to the place. I suppose most of them head up there after visiting the wildlife park at WS. Is that right?

The park doesn't need to advertise. It is PACKED out every day... especially weekends. Similar to when it first opened I reckon. Even during the week it is still busy. So there is no need to spend money on advertising... you can't buy promotion like this. Lucky Malaysians. The thing that doesn't add up for me is that the park is getting busier and busier every day... yet it is still well over 6 weeks off closing... and more staff from every department are leaving all the time. See, it is an equation that doesn't add up. If the park gets busy you need more staff not less. In saying that, I do believe they are going to try and pull out everything they've got to keep the place open considering the response they are getting. I would imagine it is going to be a very hard task though. It will be interesting to see what happens

I think all the casual staff should just get out now. Why help Wonderland? They've never really helped the staff out. Bad pay, bad conditions. The place deserves to close early and miss out on the holiday influx of cash. I have no respect for the owners or management. Who cares if a few families miss out on going... most families who hold wonderpasses have already visited almost every day anyway since they've heard the news of the closure. There's nothing special or new to see there for those that haven't been for a while... it's the same as it was 10 years ago (but now with even less themed areas, shows and rides). People are better to just hold onto their memories of when the place first opened

I was reading info about the World of Adventure purchase and apparantley the park gets an average of 1.5 million visitors each year and $16 million in profit. The park has 10 roller coasters, lots of other attractions, a water park and 'several' childrens areas. Therefore their running costs would be very high yet they still make a good profit. The majority of our Aussie theme parks get similar visitation levels... so why don't our parks also have 10 coasters each and several childrens areas??? We have nothing of that sort. It doesn't make sense to me. Dreamworld gets close to 1.5 mill guests each year. Can someone explain this?

Richard - the source, author and date for each article are written underneath each of the bold headlines. I know there is not really any new info as such in the articles (as I said I was not expecting any of you to be surprised) but as you said Richard it is the first time this angle has been published, unfortunately. Also thought it was interesting to hear from Neil Balnaves and it pleases me that he is obviously well aware of the need for capital investment in a park

I have found a couple of articles which give a far more accurate account of why Wonderland is closing and the deceptiveness behind it. This goes against everything the CEO said and what Sunway would like the general public to believe. The articles may make some of you even more angry but they are well worth a read. I don't think anything will surprise you though, most of us were aware of what has been going on for some time. The first one has some insight from Neil Balnaves from Dreamworld (Macquarie Leisure). I think he is spot on. Happy reading and don't forget to share your thoughts... Selling fun just not the Wonderland it used to be Author: Kathy Mac Dermott Date: 21/02/2004 Publication: Financial Review Wonderland Sydney's relegation this week to the theme park scrap heap highlights just how tough the business of selling fun has become. The 19-year-old thrill venue is being bulldozed for a traditional industrial estate, leaving Sydney without a major theme park attraction and Wonderland's Malaysian vendor with a hefty profit from the land sale. "Everyone is not doing as well as they were because the fall in international tourists has dented theme park revenues," forensic valuer Brian Cox says. Overseas attendees provide a better yield once they pass through the gates, with Japanese visitors the best spenders. Wonderland's demise follows that of the disastrous Fox Studios Backlot theme park, which Lend Lease and News Corp were forced to shut down after less than two years of operation, and the closure of Old Sydney Town. Other proposals just never progressed beyond the drawing board, including the $485million Studio City proposal for Melbourne's Docklands and the canning of Dolly Parton's Dixie Stampede planned for Surfers Paradise. This week Wonderland's chief executive Stephen Galbraith cited a litany of reasons for the park's demise, including Asian bird flu, SARS and the collapse of HIH. But other operators and analysts place the blame closer to home. One of the pioneers of Wonderland and now chairman of Macquarie Leisure, Neil Balnaves, said the park's vendor, Sunway City Berhad, had not invested any money into the complex during its eight years of ownership. "It was basically a 'wear-out' process," he says. Theme parks need a capital injection of between $3million and $4million each year to survive. Balnaves dismisses claims that international events including September 11 and SARS drove Wonderland to the wall as "excuses". "Overall the theme park industry is in great shape," he says. People are not travelling overseas and Macquarie Leisure has been able to tap into this to bolster its domestic visits. In its recently released interim results, Macquarie Leisure reported a 29 per cent improvement in Dreamworld's profit at a time when its international patronage was at an historic low. Balnaves started working on feasibility studies for Wonderland in the early 1970s and opened the park in December 1984. In the mid 1990s he said Wonderland was consistently attracting 1 million visitors a year. He describes its closure as a tragedy. "It's a real disappointment to see an asset of Sydney go like that because of a zoning change out of nowhere," he says. A spokeswoman from Wonderland declined to comment on the allegations that the park had been neglected. Cox says Wonderland also suffered because of its Eastern Creek location. "At a time when international tourists want to do Cape York to Melbourne in one day, Wonderland was too far out of Sydney," he says. The country's remaining theme parks of Dreamworld, Movie World and Sea World work because of their clustering on the Gold Coast. "Theme park junkies want more than one theme park experience in their holidays," Cox says. Theme park analyst David Barbuto, of JPI Consulting, says Wonderland had lost its identity and did not offer a sufficient menu of attractions to lock people into a four- to six-hour stay. It is critical to snare visitors for two meals because significant margins are sourced from food and beverage sales, he explains. Wonderland's lack of branding also meant the park could not harness valuable merchandising sales. Jamberoo bucks trend Author: By DAVID CRAWSHAW Date: 18/02/2004 Publication: Illawarra Mercury THE Illawarra's only theme park is proving more popular with visitors, despite Sydney's Wonderland closing its doors citing the impact of terrorism, SARS and Asian bird flu. Jim Eddy, who runs Jamberoo Recreation Park, does not buy Wonderland's argument and says business could not be better. Mr Eddy said yesterday his park had just registered its best summer holiday period, and visitor numbers were soaring. ``We had 91,000 visitors over December and January, compared to 81,500 last year and 79,600 the year before." Mr Eddy said the park was on track to exceeding 200,000 visitors this financial year - up from 170,000 in 2002-03 and 165,400 in 2001-02. Domestic tourism accounted for 96 per cent of the park's business, and 68 per cent of visitors were from Sydney. Mr Eddy expects Wonderland's closure to benefit his business, although he admits he is sad to see the icon go. ``I'm saddened by (the closure) because I don't like it to be happening to the industry," he said. ``We compete pretty hard with them so we expect to pick up (group bookings) ... Christmas parties, school excursions. ``But in the longer term it's going to have a negative impact on the industry. It takes another player out of the market." Wonderland's demise follows the closure of Old Sydney Town on the Central Coast and the Kinkuna Country Fun and Fauna Park at Lakes Entrance, Victoria. Mr Eddy said he believed development pressures, rather than hard times, had prompted Wonderland's closure. The 100ha site in western Sydney was worth about $100million, and its owners could make more money from subdividing the site than they could from a theme park, he said. ``I don't understand (Wonderland) suggesting SARS is to blame. The land value has put the viability of the site for development way ahead of it being used as a theme park." He said Merimbula's Magic Mountain attraction was also considering subdividing parts of its land for residential development. A Magic Mountain spokesman said all options were being explored, but for now the centre was still trading as a theme park. Symbio Wildlife Gardens owner John Radnidge said international tourism had fallen in the past few years but domestic tourism was up. The business had just invested $250,000 on a crocodile exhibit, he said. Crowd pleasers Jamberoo Recreation Park visitor numbers: 2002-03: 170,000 2001-02: 165,400 Summer holiday (Dec - Jan) figures: 2003-04: 91,000 2002-03: 81,500 2001-02: 79,600

Apparantley the managers have been desperately doing everything possible to fill shifts to ensure the park stays open until April 26th. It seems to be working too as none of the rides have been closed for a day yet (besides the usuals). Also, I heard that there were possibly a bunch of new staff employed in the attractions department. They were seen standing around in the wardrobe department trying on uniforms. Can't confirm whether they were actually new staff or not though. Who would take a job there now? Perhaps the CEO has seen the fairly largish numbers coming through the gates at the moment and wants to make sure the park remains open to suck in as much cash as possible before closure (and then more cash upon closure ofcourse ie. $52.5 mill)

I hope the fact that the city will be busy is the reason you guys do not want to head in there... not because you're worried about homosexual men. Surely everyone here is more open minded than that

Unfortunately it's true... I would imagine the majority of Wonderland's guests are blissfully unaware that Demon is a crappy old coaster. Most Aussies would still be quite impressed with it (boy are we ever behind the times!). Therefore, Dreamworld could probably get away with it. However, the fact that they have already bought a second hand coaster from another park in Oz which was highly publicised may be an issue for them. If they add ANOTHER one to their collection they might start getting a bit of a dodgy reputation. I'm sure DW would be aware of this. Don't do it Dreamworld... say NO to Demon! My guess is that it's heading off to Kuala Lumpar as the 'brand spanking new' attraction at Sunway Lagoon. They don't seem to know any better over there either

No way Gazza. I think IF Dreamworld was to buy the Demon (I truly hope not) it should be re-themed as Tsunami... exactly as it is in your ride concept drawings. That would be perfect

Richard you are absolutely spot on. The CEO even said something to that effect during the staff closure meeting. He talked about the various improvements that had been made to the park over the last few years and how they were almost entirely funded out of Wonderland's own operating revenue. Oh Sunway... how little respect I have for you

Oh no... not Dreamworld! Please no more 2nd hand coasters. The thing that is annoying now is that Wonderland is starting to become packed out with visitors every day because everyone wants one last visit before it closes. So Sunway get to reap the benefits of 2 full months of a totally busy park and then sell it for a nice profit. It's all good for Sunway. The way I see it is that people should really be boycotting Wonderland... not giving them a nice cash bonus before they close. I guess everyone wants to go for one (or more) last trips to say goodbye. No new attraction could bring in the sort of numbers the theme and wildlife park is getting now that it is closing

Well if you think about it Sunway paid only around $50 million originally when they bought the WHOLE of the Wonderland property. This property included all the land surrounding the main driveway and car parks. Sunway has been selling these parcels of land off seperately for various prices. The $52.5 mill that everyone is talking about is just for the specific land that the theme park sits on. So therefore in total they have made well over $52.5 mill. When you think about it that way, Sunway hasn't done too badly at all. It's also worth noting that Sunway will continue to have a financial interest in some of the land as not all of it was sold completely... part of the business park is going to be a joint venture with Sunway. By the way... welcome back Daniel, we missed you. Forgot to say that before. Where were you?

The shot Richard posted isn't actually a shot of the main entry facade, it is a side view of the building. I absolutely loved the ride when I was a bit younger. It is well themed and filled with lots of atmosphere. There are parts of the ride where you feel like you are floating along an actual jungle river at night (it is quite dark). The only problem is that it seems to have deteriorated quite a bit over the last few years. It is definitely not quite as good as when it first opened (like most attractions I guess). I also don't mind the fact that most of Movie World's dark rides are in 'aluminum sheds'. The sheds are designed to look like sound stages/movie studios so I think the park can get away with it. It is better when they actually create a proper facade out the front of the sheds though... like they did with Scooby Doo

Just noticed that your pics disappeared Gazza... I'm guessing because we transferred over to the new forums. Can you re-post them? I was just thinking now how perfect Tsunami would be for Dreamworld considering the Demon may go on sale for a rather cheap price. It would fit so well in Ocean Parade. As much as I hate the Demon and don't really want to see it continue it's life in Australia... if Dreamworld totally re-themed it with all the elements you have in your pic including the massive wave and water sprays... I would be excited to ride it again

That is such a cool idea Gazza. I swear you have some of the best ideas for ride designs I have ever seen. Whether or not they would always work perfectly technically doesn't matter 'cause it's all about experimenting and trial and error until you get the right design. All of your theming ideas compliment the rides really well too. I hope you are going to study engineering or something similar at uni so you can make a career of this. We need people like you in the industry

No one has given me an answer regarding my request for another date. Does that mean it's a no then?

Oh no! Does it have to be 7th March? How about the following Sunday? I know you guys have kinda locked it in but would anyone object to the following week? I'd LOVE to come but can't make it 7th March. Pleeeease. Even the previous Sunday would be okay (29th I think). Just not the 7th!

djrappa - very well said. Channel seven news did a great segment on Wonderland tonight. They showed the CEO crapping on and on with his list of tragic world and local events which have affected the park.. all an obvious cover up. They made him look like a fool (which he is for the way he is handling this). They also showed the CEO saying only that there had been "an expression of interest" in the WS site. The report then went on to say that the site has actually been sold to ING for $52 million for industry purposes. He was therefore lieing to the staff last night when he told them that he "did not know" what was going to happen to the site. What a disgrace. Congratulations Malaysia - you have made some serious bucks out of one of our treasured assets and turned it into a pile of factories. Thanks again

If you wouldn't mind, save the Luna Park questions for the Luna Park section of these forums. I don't want to sidetrack from this important topic. Even though I guess it was inevitable for Wonderland to close considering the way Sunway were doing things... I am still amazed that we are even discussing this. It is all very surreal don't you think? I can't get my head around it. They day has actually come. No more WS. So, so weird. Richard - looking forward to your thoughts on this...