Easter 2022 Crowds at the Theme Parks

[Levithian]

Even if you had the fastest loaders in history and as many trains as can be managed, still have something working against you on a lot of rides.

 

Policy/proceedure in australian parks is different. Even the rides are sometimes modified with additional restraints compared to overseas models.

Nobody will dispatch a ride without physically checking the harness is locked and giving an all clear signal before launch, even though it has multiple redundancies and multiple monitors which wont allow the ride to dispatch without it being in good position. 

Additional restraints are fitted and are also checked before dispatch. A good example are crotch belts. 

When you combine these with poor training/operation already discussed, times blow out even further. 

[Dean Barnett]

I've never been on a ride where the restraint wasn't checked - but the two step process on Rivals is O.T.T. 

Gold Coast ops seem obsessed with stapling people on coasters - where that isn't necessary. If it's past its minimums (which it won't dispatch if it isn't) and physically checked (by pulling up.. not pushing down) .. it's good to go.  Seatbelts are pretty much just theatre. Pretty sure they don't even lock on B&M's

[Brad2912]

25 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

Seatbelts are pretty much just theatre. Pretty sure they don't even lock on B&M's

It’s a redundancy feature. It doesn’t lock, nothing is stopping you from undoing it the second you depart the station - but that’s on you and a personal risk. In the extremely unusual situation whereby the mechanical (and electrically controlled) harness disengages, you have a physical safety implement that will do it’s job to keep you safe. One would have saved that kid in the US on the drop tower a few weeks back.

[Cactus_Matt]

Echoing what some people have said in this thread but going a bit further, whatever plans Movie World has for the Arkham area should be either put on hold or completely thrown out in favour of a super-high capacity family adventure ride like what the park had with the Loony Tunes River Ride, something that can board 20+ people per boat/car with a continuous loading/unloading platform without the need for complicated restraints. It might sound like 'pie in the sky' thinking but what I think is, rather than spend $20+ million on a record breaking roller coaster or 3 random roller coasters (or whatever the plan currently is for Arkham) they need a Disney level attraction that can just churn through guests consistently. 

[WalleyWorld]

6 hours ago, Cactus_Matt said:

Echoing what some people have said in this thread but going a bit further, whatever plans Movie World has for the Arkham area should be either put on hold or completely thrown out in favour of a super-high capacity family adventure ride like what the park had with the Loony Tunes River Ride, something that can board 20+ people per boat/car with a continuous loading/unloading platform without the need for complicated restraints. It might sound like 'pie in the sky' thinking but what I think is, rather than spend $20+ million on a record breaking roller coaster or 3 random roller coasters (or whatever the plan currently is for Arkham) they need a Disney level attraction that can just churn through guests consistently. 

^Agreed! This is exactly how the execs need to be thinking. But unfortunately this thought process is far too considered and logical for VRTP. It is unequivocally evident that MW has significant capacity and operational efficiency issues. And has had for years. Yet their best solution to this problem is to build 3x family coasters, that can only run 1 train each. logic?!

Furthermore, they just went and ruined the capacity of their only people eater family attraction (WWF). Surely they could have appeased the insurance companies, without reducing the ride's capacity?

After all, this is "Australia's #1 theme park".....how about the execs start making design, operational and maintenance decisions that support this marketing. MW and it's operational staff deserve better.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Luke

[New display name]

29 minutes ago, Luke said:

According to MW it's "Australia's #1 theme park"

Fixed.

[Dean Barnett]

12 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

It’s a redundancy feature. It doesn’t lock, nothing is stopping you from undoing it the second you depart the station - but that’s on you and a personal risk. In the extremely unusual situation whereby the mechanical (and electrically controlled) harness disengages, you have a physical safety implement that will do it’s job to keep you safe. One would have saved that kid in the US on the drop tower a few weeks back.

You can't compare a tilting drop tower to a rollercoaster - if it was a required redundancy feature it would be required. Disney, Universal and Six Flags would require it on all of their coasters. They don't - therefore they can pump out outrageous numbers of people through a ride a hour. Imagine if Disney needed check harnesses and then do seatbelts for every seat of the inverting Incredicoaster .. even if this added 5 seconds per seat - it would be an extra minute per dispatch.  They don't have a problem with bags because you can just take them on with you. (I know this isn't possible with the Mack train design)

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

17 hours ago, Rivals said:

i think the difference here is one cares about the guest experience more, whereas the other one cares about money more. 

I mean, I realise this is a Village pile-on thread right now, but just in case it's been overlooked, the parks each have a theoretical safe capacity. It isn't necessarily because one park cares more than the other. Things like fire safety limits come in too - they have to be able to evacuate the park in a reasonable timeframe as well.

WWW's was set low when it opened because it was small. The planned expansions never eventuated and the additional attractions haven't changed the size of the park, (although it has given them more to do), so WWW does have busier times, and low park capacity.

Movie World on the other hand has a much larger capacity. The park can physically take far more guests in a day than WWW can. The difference here is - that many guests used to have plenty of capacity eating attractions to absorb them, and now they don't. Studio Tour, BATRide, PASS, LTRR, even Lethal\Arkham - all of these things used to eat insane numbers of people... and while they have added coasters like GL and DCR, the fact is GL has never been able to run well with more than a couple cars, and DCR currently has train issues. Experiences like Studio and PASS don't have the same downtime as coaster trains

15 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

Rivals doesn't really need the seatbelt - it certainly doesn't need to have the attendant put it on. 

If Disney can run it for Incredicoaster with two separate stations, MW can with one.

Gold Coast Parks are not Disney. They're not Universal. AND they're in Australia.

I follow a page on facebook called Amusement Ride Accidents - they report on ride failures and injuries. This year alone, there have been 5 incidents in the USA. Zero for Australia. 

Just because America doesn't use a safety system, that is not proof or justification for our jurisdiction to not require them. We are a safer place because of it - even if the sometimes annoying safety features are perhaps a little too over the top - i'd prefer to know we're safe, because i've seen what the alternative landscape of 'yeehaa i'm a ride engineer' looks like - including at Dreamworld.

13 hours ago, rappa said:

Single rider isnt very effective on 2 seater rides anyway. 

Never gone to a park in a group of 3 or 5?

13 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

Seatbelts are pretty much just theatre. Pretty sure they don't even lock on B&M's

On old school coasters like Arrow where you could ride an inversion with the harness up (i've seen it done) i'd agree with you. On newer models that rely on hydraulics to keep the harness closed, where the seat is on a platform and completely exposed, no, the seatbelt is more than that.

12 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

It’s a redundancy feature. It doesn’t lock, nothing is stopping you from undoing it the second you depart the station - but that’s on you and a personal risk. In the extremely unusual situation whereby the mechanical (and electrically controlled) harness disengages, you have a physical safety implement that will do it’s job to keep you safe. One would have saved that kid in the US on the drop tower a few weeks back.

The Mack trains certainly do lock. You can't undo it. I'm fairly certain Superman has a sensor attached to the seatbelt also, so you can undo it but it can also be detected at some points on-ride, but could be mistaken. Rides like Batwing I don't think have them.

Seatbelts also have visual indications (a yellow line stitched into Superman's seatbelts for example) that show the operator visually that the harness is down far enough to be safely locked. 

15 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

You can't compare a tilting drop tower to a rollercoaster - if it was a required redundancy feature it would be required. Disney, Universal and Six Flags would require it on all of their coasters. They don't - therefore they can pump out outrageous numbers of people through a ride a hour. Imagine if Disney needed check harnesses and then do seatbelts for every seat of the inverting Incredicoaster .. even if this added 5 seconds per seat - it would be an extra minute per dispatch.  They don't have a problem with bags because you can just take them on with you. (I know this isn't possible with the Mack train design)

Again, we're not Disney. It is very clearly not something the parks have chosen to do. It's either a manufacturer or jurisdictional requirement, neither of which are you going to change by whinging to the park. 

[themagician]

Very good points @DaptoFunlandGuy. If Australia was reporting that many incidents the industry would crash or we’ve have every ride have modifications made like we saw on RHLR or shockwave and we know how horrible those changes were.

Continuing on the discussion about Rivals, could it also be something relating to the ride manufacturer. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the trains for Steel Taipan and Rivals the same? We’ve seen with ST they’ve added this LED light that the ride operator has to scan before the train leave the station. Could it be Mack have updated their standards/practices for their coasters with the older train models, which therefore impact the loading and harness check procedures. Just stating random thoughts I’m having about the situation to try understand the reasoning behind these insane queue times. 

[New display name]

7 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

I mean, I realise this is a Village pile-on thread right now

Far from it, this thread came about because people where complaining about MW crowds.  If DW had 3 hour wait times we would be saying the same about DW.

[WalleyWorld]

Here is a perfect example of the arrogant VRTP culture that is bred from the top down and permeates every department within their business. Why fix your problems when you can just blame the customer!

Australia’s #1 theme park (if you stop coming).

Edited April 19, 2022 by Luke

[Brad2912]

That’s a smug ass reply. Ky needs some customer service training. 
 

Can someone point to the place on their website where they tell people not to visit their parks in school holidays if you don’t like long queues? 
 

Whilst some will tolerate them, no one likes long queues. So is Ky stating that people should not attend movie world in school holidays? 

[themagician]

That is the shittest response ever. I feel like they are sick of seeing all these comments about how busy the park was and they’ve just had enough and written something like that. If I was in their position, I’d probably be pissed off too seeing so many people complain. But what do they expect, a four hour queue for one ride and minimum. 2 hours for the remaining headline attractions (whether it’s their fault or not) is  insane and people are going to complain about it when they’ve spent so much to get in.

[New display name]

@pushbuttonwould not like this service MW is dishing out and either do I @Luke

🙃

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by New display name

[themagician]

Queue times are insane again today (photo taken from someone’s comment on MWs FB post)

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

11 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

That’s a smug ass reply. Ky needs some customer service training. 
 

Can someone point to the place on their website where they tell people not to visit their parks in school holidays if you don’t like long queues? 
 

Whilst some will tolerate them, no one likes long queues. So is Ky stating that people should not attend movie world in school holidays? 

It IS a smug-ass reply - Not what the social media team at any family focussed facility should be saying ever.

There won't be anything on their website, and of course - why would they ever tell people to stay away (that worked well for the GC Comm Games).

From what i've seen over the past couple weeks, they need to do a couple things:

• reconsider the park's capacity limit for peak operations, and reduce that capacity based on ride availability, staff availability and park capacity reductions since the capacity number was first introduced
• Have a 'live' crowd meter of sorts available on their app or website. 
• Have their social team post if the park is seeing exceedingly long wait times. Anything over 2 hours should trigger them to post things like 'its a bit full today, try alternate property attraction?' or something rather than make people find out at the gate.
• Have the social team be empathetic to customers who are venting their frustrations. Sure, it's not the parks fault there's so many people, but these are YOUR guests and they've had a BAD experience

I was told previously by guest relations that as long as you're in the queue before the park closes, you'll get a ride. I've heard queues for things like Rivals are being closed as early as 2pm. 3 Hours before close. And staff are still working an hour after the park closes. 

SOMEthing needs to happen. At the moment, NOTHING is visibly being done. And to have this kind of social response 'come back next week' is just insulting. 

[Dean Barnett]

3 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

I was told previously by guest relations that as long as you're in the queue before the park closes, you'll get a ride. I've heard queues for things like Rivals are being closed as early as 2pm. 3 Hours before close. And staff are still working an hour after the park closes. 

The easiest thing they could do would be extend hours, or even just push the hours back. No one wants to get up before 8am to make it in to the park at 9am so they can get on rides. I'd much prefer 12pm to 9pm. 

[Naazon]

13 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Have a 'live' crowd meter of sorts available on their app or website. 

I agree with you 100% and what I'm about to say is more FYI rather than putting blame on the customer.

This thing is available on Google, but the issue with these things is that they are only accurate at the time of posting, and only benefits people planning on coming after the park has been open.

 

That said, they need to do something, and probably should open an hour earlier and close an hour or 2 later each day in the week(s) that the states have holiday crossovers, at a minimum. + everything everyone else said, including Ky getting some lovely extra attention from the bosses over the next week or so.
 

8 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

The easiest thing they could do would be extend hours, or even just push the hours back. No one wants to get up before 8am to make it in to the park at 9am so they can get on rides. I'd much prefer 12pm to 9pm. 

Earlier works better for young familys, and opening until 9pm, although legal, the park tends to only do infrequently I believe to keep favour with the neighbours and to allow all quests to vacate the park. I think 7 or 8pm is the better close time.

[Rivals]

1 minute ago, Naazon said:

That said, they need to do something, and probably should open an hour earlier and close an hour or 2 later each day in the week(s) that the states have holiday crossovers, at a minimum. + everything everyone else said, including Ky getting some lovely extra attention from the bosses over the next week or so.
 

i’ve heard of (and experienced) the social media teams leaving you on opened or just telling you to ring the park if you have any inquiries, so i doubt unless someone makes a complaint about the reply anything will be done about it

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1 hour ago, Dean Barnett said:

The easiest thing they could do would be extend hours, or even just push the hours back. No one wants to get up before 8am to make it in to the park at 9am so they can get on rides. I'd much prefer 12pm to 9pm. 

They used to open the park at 9. Even opened a ride or two early for VIP Gold pssholders. I know plenty of people that would like that option - you get a lot done without the crowds. I’d happily pay more for it too.

 

as already mentioned, you can’t open the parks too late on the regular. And again, we’re not US parks. Some things will work here. Others won’t. Regular late trade in peaks would be awesome but too hit and miss for them to commit resources to, especially in a time where we’ve already heard they’re having issues with staffing.

[franky]

Primary thing they can do easily is stop gatekeeping wait times behind a park entry. Guests can see how busy the park is up front. Other than that restricting numbers or extending hours is all they can do, but I think that will upset an equal number of people being locked out of the park than those that want to go and wait in 3 hour lines.

We hit up wet and wild today. It there was very little wet and quite a bit of wild. Got in a ride on Constrictor and then Kaboom and it was 1:30pm. We gave up, got changed and went back to SeaWorld.

JetRescue was running much faster today! SeaWorld a lot quieter today than Sunday in our experience.

[Vidgamer]

Movieworld has really stuffed this holiday period up, the Google reviews are scathing. 

[New display name]

41 minutes ago, rappa said:

FTFY

Just because I like a stir in what is already a too messed up to comment thread

Don't worry about it.  Nobody reads your comments when we're talking about MW.😂

[Brad2912]

5 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

No one wants to get up before 8am to make it in to the park at 9am so they can get on rides.

You don’t have kids do you? Haha

8am is a sleep in. 
 

whilst I agree extended hours should happen in school holidays, being at a park by 9am is not encumbering for the last majority of their target market 

[Cactus_Matt]

The fact that Movie World hasn't issued a formal (or heck, even informal social media statement) apologising for doing literally nothing to mitigate the problems shows that the park is 100% just in it to make as much money as possible by this holiday period even if it translates into terrible word of mouth, scathing reviews and horrible guest experiences. The absolute rock bottom bare minimum they should be doing is having their social media person explaining that capacity is currently lower because of additional coaster trains/boats being out of commission instead of blaming the very people who are lining the parks pockets.