Easter 2022 Crowds at the Theme Parks

[Dean Barnett]

They'd be better off for superman just to have no grouper when it's dead. This is what happened at carowinds for me a few weeks ago - no grouper and 4 people checking restraints on the platform. The ops on superman shit me to tears. The ride goes for about 40 seconds but the whole process takes an easy 10 minutes, with a 1 train queue. 

 

1 hour ago, DJKostya said:

 I believe that Disney tried this recently due to capping numbers because of COVID (Happy to be corrected).

 

Disney still require reservations for parks. (Even for cast members). Park hopping is available after 1pm at WDW. 

Universal/Sea World in Orlando don't require reservations.  

 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[webslave]

For a place struggling with staff numbers they always seem to have enough to push churros and so-cones... 

[New display name]

@Gazza8124 only works at 1 ride an hour if you are willing to ride every attraction in the park.  (Which most people don't)   

If I'm riding Tijuana Taxis ,I'll be assaulted by a few parents.😀

[Baconjack]

21 hours ago, Luke said:

Australia’s #1 theme park (if you stop coming).

Maybe you could do any of the following:

1) Base the day’s capacity on how many staff will be in on a certain day. These two things need to be in correlation with each other - basic HR 101. A park being packed with guests with limited staff to serve them makes the experience worse for both parties - the only ones who benefit are bean counters.

2) not run rides at a snail’s pace and actually have managers give a shit about capacity and getting people moving quickly through lines. Train staff to run rides using Universal/Disney practices as a reference. This culture has to start at the top.

3) Keep the park clean and not in an unkempt condition with weeds growing through signs and shit (unrelated to crowds, but that’s besides the point)

4) Reduce capacity and shut off the park when it gets full rather than keep letting guests in (for reference, 10k is near how many guests Hong Kong Disneyland would get a day on average pre Covid)

5) Design the park so guests will be more evenly spread out and not crammed into one area - something repeated sets of managers have consistently ignored for the last decade and a half when cramming rides into the DC corner.

6) Run the popular rides (Rivals, Scooby, WWF, Superman) at max capacity during every school holiday period - not just the Boxing Day- late January block 

This is world class theme park operations in action people! 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Baconjack

[WalleyWorld]

hmm I'm getting some strong mixed messages from VRTP. Price board picture was taken today.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Luke

[joz]

10 hours ago, Levithian said:

Parks keep giving this a trial and the end result is it's not really that well supported.

This is a highly underrated comment in this dumpster fire of a thread. I even suggested extending the hours, but what's that going to do for you really? Thw VAST majority of guests go home at 5pm when there is extended trade, because that's what they're used to doing. Honestly they could have stayed open till midnight and it wouldn't have made much difference. Some difference for sure, just not much. Would be an absoloute bonanza for the 1500 people still in the park after 6pm and do fuck all for everyone else.

 

All the parks got slammed on the weekend with the sort of numbers that haven't been seen since pre pandemic. All the parks were their own version of mental, and MW had 4000 guests more than the next busiest park. It's not about how MW responded (though as it happens they really didn't respond well), it was just too busy.

 

They have reduced the number of tickets sold to night events in recent years to deal with over crowding, so I don't buy for a second the lazy 'They don't care, it's all about money' trope, it's just not as easy as that for day trade. No one is set up for it either. I think a system does need to be investigated though because so long as MW is the best park with the best rides and draws by far the most guests then they will continue to be victims of their own success, and victims of the other park's inability to draw a reasonable proportion of guests. Maybe the cheapest local pass doesn't need to let you in over the Easter long weekend or the first 2 weeks after boxing day?

 

Anyway, I'm going away for a couple of days again, will check back in on the dumpster fire again then. Look forward to everyone continuing to lose their minds!

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

9 minutes ago, joz said:

Thw VAST majority of guests go home at 5pm when there is extended trade, because that's what they're used to doing.

This is true. Truth be told - on my first overseas trip to a Disney park, my family vacated the park promptly at 5pm. We saw the fireworks from our hotel pool and asked the reception desk what the fireworks were for. 

But that doesn't mean it needs to stay that way. WnW used to open late in summer and show movies. Wonderland used to do $5 after 5pm on saturdays in summer.

Habits are hard to break, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I think the 'trials' the parks have done have not necessarily shown success because it's for too limited a period. You need an abacus and a slide rule to work out the park's opening hours are 10-5 m-f except when its a full moon. 9-6 on saturday and 8-3:30 on sundays, but not that second sunday because its also a full moon and we'll do 12-2.

I visited Dreamworld over the summer. They had extended trade, and ended with fireworks. There was quite the crowd in the Taipan viewing area to watch the fire works at the end of the night. Simply staying open, without any enticement to stay isn't enough.

planned extended trade can be successful but you need to give people a reason to utilise those hours.  

19 minutes ago, joz said:

MW admitted 4000 guests more than the next busiest park. It's all about how MW responded because they never stopped to think 'can we handle this many people'

FTFY.

20 minutes ago, joz said:

They have reduced the number of tickets sold to night events in recent years to deal with over crowding, so I don't buy for a second the lazy 'They don't care, it's all about money' trope, it's just not as easy as that for day trade. No one is set up for it either.

I agree, it isn't about 'they don't care, its money' - but what i've said a few times now is that somewhere in the park operations manual it says "this park can hold 10,000 people" and that manual is dated 1994. They need to update it to account for reduced capacity and reduced staffing (apparently). They could have absolutely shut the gates earlier and not had 4000 more people than the next busiest park. but they didnt.

As for parks being set up for it - its a management decision and a 15 minute meeting with your guest relations staff on how to manage shit on the fly. Wonderland had a counter on every turnstile that reset every morning. Guest relations would come out several times a day and record the numbers on each turnstile and report to all departments what the current park attendance number was. They do it at football games, usually by half-time. Since they no longer use the turnstiles and just scan with portable barcode readers, it stands to reason that they would have a fairly accurate headcount in-park moments after the guests enter, and could easily have said "shit, it's busy today - what's our number, and how will we manage if we reach it?"

26 minutes ago, joz said:

Maybe the cheapest local pass doesn't need to let you in over the Easter long weekend or the first 2 weeks after boxing day?

At the risk of a cliche response - they tried blockout dates and all they did was immediately reverse their position on that once they had 100 angry people at the gate. 

 

[New display name]

@rappaare you trying to tell us, if you turned up to a restaurant and paid $100.00 for a 3-course meal and they took 4 hours to serve the entrée, you wait another 3 hours for the main, only to be told the kitchen is closing and there will be no main or desert, you wouldn’t ask for a refund?

Edited April 20, 2022 by New display name

[Dean Barnett]

I feel like if they open up later, they'd make more money from food sales (you could even add a destination restaurant) and alcohol sales.

 

They least they can do is close the lines at the published park close time. No fast tracks after close which would mean the line would move faster...

Edited April 20, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[joz]

6 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Habits are hard to break, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try

Point is that with things where it was at the weekend, MW being reactionary wouldn't have helped here. They also have started doing a bit more extended trading over the past couple of years, but it's not there yet. A reason to stay is valid, but again, it's not as straight forward or simple as that.

 

Also with Block out dates: What you could also do if you want to avoid angry guests is lie a bit, and say very loudly "There's a block out date on the cheapest passes!", but if someone shows up, send them to another turn style, explain the tickets have block out dates, and that they aren't valid today. Admit them to the park anyway, saying 'Because you've came all this way, and we're sure you just didn't know, we can let you in today. However, we'll put a note on the passes and next time you won't be admitted. Have a great day!'. If they come back another time when the passes aren't valid, do the same song and dance. If you naturally discourage a thousand of the cheapest people from coming in peak season then that'll do!

[Dean Barnett]

Luna Park Sydney - with "tiered pricing to ensure there's enough staff", is facing the same fate.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[Gazza]

Quote

MW being reactionary wouldn't have helped here. They also have started doing a bit more extended trading over the past couple of years, but it's not there yet. A reason to stay is valid, but again, it's not as straight forward or simple as that.

 

I think one thing that doesn't help is they don't really have a calendar that says hours in advance, so the assumption is open at 10 close at 5. Now with Covid seemingly done, they could really be planning this stuff out months in advance, and mark in special events, extended holiday trading, and even shorter weekday trading in winter.

I'd prefer that tbh, and would help with visitors planning visits. Eg if the hours are longer you know it will be busier.

 

[New display name]

@Gazzacan you fix your link.   I keep clicking on it to go to the beer but it isn't working.💁‍♂️😬

 

 

/s

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1 hour ago, joz said:

Point is that with things where it was at the weekend, MW being reactionary wouldn't have helped here.

Yep, you're absolutely right. I guess its prevention rather than cure. 

1 hour ago, joz said:

Also with Block out dates: What you could also do if you want to avoid angry guests is lie a bit, and say very loudly "There's a block out date on the cheapest passes!", but if someone shows up, send them to another turn style, explain the tickets have block out dates, and that they aren't valid today. Admit them to the park anyway, saying 'Because you've came all this way, and we're sure you just didn't know, we can let you in today. However, we'll put a note on the passes and next time you won't be admitted. Have a great day!'. If they come back another time when the passes aren't valid, do the same song and dance. If you naturally discourage a thousand of the cheapest people from coming in peak season then that'll do!

I think you'll find this will have the opposite effect. Despite the suggestions about the credibility of facebook posts in this thread, what happens is people say "we can't go, our passes are blocked out! :sadface:" and then helpful Karen says "nah, go anyway and they'll pull you aside and tell you you aren't allowed, but they'll make an exception and let you in anyway! We got in 5 times this week!" - and that word spreads. Everyone shares how to 'cheat' the system and the system becomes useless. 

If you're going to do blockout dates, you need to be brave, and refuse entry. Like I said - habits are hard to break, but if you make it clear the pass has a blockout. Get them to sign an acknowledgement that it has a blockout (online signature forms are really widely available now). Cop the initial backlash, perhaps offer people an afterpay style option to upgrade their blocked out pass to an unblocked pass if they want to come in on that day. Use that upgrade money to fund additional staffing on busy days to make life easier...

35 minutes ago, Gazza said:

they could really be planning this stuff out months in advance

ONE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT.

Edited April 20, 2022 by DaptoFunlandGuy

[joz]

@DaptoFunlandGuyAgree to disagree about the merits of how to do customer service, and the value of acting in a good faith way with guests.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1 hour ago, joz said:

@DaptoFunlandGuyAgree to disagree about the merits of how to do customer service, and the value of acting in a good faith way with guests.

*Excuse me while I swallow my indignation. Not on you at all*

Yeah I get what you're saying. I'm one of the people who has banged on in this thread about them providing more customer service - and despite my soapboxes, I do know a thing or two about customer service... I just see a system rife for abuse, and those abusers make the customer experience worse for everyone else... 

THE VIP GOLD EXPERIMENT - On the one hand, you put your finger to your lips and quietly let them in anyway. This is what happened with the VIP\VIP Gold (at least, after the first week of people complaining about the blackout dates they obviously knew about when they purchased them). - System Failed.

THE JOZ SUGGESTION - Or you give them a talking to, tell them not to let it happen again, and let them in - *every time* - word spreads of the workaround, abuse is rife - System failed.

THE DAPTO KNEEJERK - Or you stand by your terms and conditions and refuse entry on the basis they actually agreed to at signup. - System success, piss off people who didn't read the T&Cs.

THE MIDDLE GROUND - Or you give the system teeth - make it more than a paper tiger - actually record that they've been given their one free 'i didn't know about the dates I obviously agreed to at checkout' and don't ever let them do it again. This strikes a good balance between doing your guests a solid, and not just bending over every time someone tries to screw you.

I acknowledge this has administration costs associated with it if the annual pass system doesn't have a method of recording notes that is visible at the gate, but assuming the ticketing system can maintain a register of blockout dates, it should be able to display a simple message about whether the guest has been warned or not - System success - guests given benefit of the doubt in good faith, but no second chances.

I also still say they should offer an at-the-gate upgrade price if people legitimately don't want blockouts and are willing to pay for them but didn't realise what they signed up for. 

 

[joz]

If they try it a second time you didn't give them a good enough talking to.

[Tim Dasco]

Ok so thought I would chime in my 10cents here.

 

BLOCK OUT DATES:

Adventure World suffered these issues last season and they re worked the way they operated this season. Adventure World last year sold out of their entire season pass allocation within 1 week of the park reopening. They have a set limit and once they reach this thats it. They turned people away last season and this season. So this season they launched a new season pass with blockout dates. Creating 3 tiers, platinum, Premium and Standard. The Premium pass was capped with a lower maximum of passes they sold to ensure attendance wasn't to high over peek periods and the blackout dates were the entire summer holidays and Good Friday. 

Now when they launched this any renewing member that wanted to select the standard option could only renew over the phone so you had to physically call guest services who explained the blackout dates BEFORE you paid for them. In addition to information on their websites. 

 

GUARANTEED ENTRY? 

The park also changed the way they did online tickets, you can purchase date specific tickets or non date specific tickets. The non date specific tickets point blank say entry is not guaranteed on that day if we reach our capacity. Lots of TV adds about this and website info.

MAX CAPACITY

They also have a max. capacity limit set to ensure queues aren't too long and this capacity is set by what the rides and park itself can handle. They are licensed to hold 8,000 people but they normally close the gates at 5,000 people according to their facebook page. Increasing as they build more rides IE Abyss, Kraken and Goliath. 

[Dean Barnett]

I don't think annual passes are the problem here - I'm gonna bet 80% of these guests were on single or multi day tickets. 

[joz]

What are you basing that on?

[Brad2912]

My guess is tea leaves… 

[djmcbell]

I really need to write up a trip report, but we went to the parks last week (and a bit of the week before).

Movie World (7th Apr) still busy, but not unbearably so. Bear in mind we have kids. Road Runner was more or less a walk-on, as was most of the stuff in the kids section. Driving School was 40 minute wait. DC Rivals advertised as 70 minute, managed to get a virtual queue when they released more after lunch. Scooby was 40 mins - we didn't go on that. Lots of stuff closed and we just couldn't be bothered much after DC Rivals.

Dreamworld (several times through the holiday) - very good. Steel Taipan only advertised a max of 30 mins, normally 15 or less. Sky Voyager was about 45 mins. Lots of stuff were walk-ons, including Gold Coaster. Madagascar had a bit of a queue. Vintage Cars 20 mins as soon as it opened.

Sea World (13th Apr) - not a chance. Crowded like hell. Went to kids area, took 20 minutes to get on the bananas - shortest queue there. When we got off the queue for that had easily doubled, as had others in the area. Kids area difficult to navigate, especially with kids. Only wanted to stop in for the kids area but left immediately after banana ride.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

13 hours ago, joz said:

If they try it a second time you didn't give them a good enough talking to.

I wish that it were so simple. In theory, yes - a stern talking to works wonders. in practice, your gate staff aren't going to be firm enough in order to avoid the confrontation that comes with telling a Karen and her family they did something wrong. We're in a society now where teenagers tell cops to fuck off, knowing full well the police won't do anything about it. There is not enough respect for authority these days - you don't stand a chance at the gate.

12 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

I don't think annual passes are the problem here - I'm gonna bet 80% of these guests were on single or multi day tickets. 

I'm gonna bet that if I go back through all 31 of your posts on this forum, that 80% of your posts have been immediately shot down in flames by someone who knows what they're talking about.

[joz]

2 hours ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

in practice, your gate staff aren't going to be firm enough in order to avoid the confrontation that comes with telling a Karen and her family they did something wrong.

So basically your solution to not trusting the staff to communicate the terms of the pass properly is to make it policy to not trust guests when they say they weren't aware?

 

Again, agree to disagree 🙂

[Dean Barnett]

2 hours ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

I'm gonna bet that if I go back through all 31 of your posts on this forum, that 80% of your posts have been immediately shot down in flames by someone who knows what they're talking about.

Ok sure.

Here's reviews that indicate that they're not annual pass holders.

 

 

 

The last reviewer that mentions they bought an annual pass was 2 months ago..