Do you think DW still has a bad reputation after the 2016 disaster?

[Bloxay]

Do you think DW still has a bad reputation after the 2016 disaster?

[rappa]

Clearly. Just look at the numbers. If they had fully recovered in the eye of the public they would have the same mental numbers of the other parks over Easter. 
They’ll get there (hopefully), will just take time. 

[Brad2912]

It takes more than 6 years to shake off the negative perception acquired when a place designed to offer a fun and safe entertainment for families kills 4 people in horrific circumstances. 
 

I think it’s also being held back by the perception that they remove quality nostalgic attractions without equivalent replacement attractions, and that they are just the “poor brother” of MW. 

[Guest 239]

On 25/04/2022 at 1:19 AM, Bloxay said:

Do you think DW still has a bad reputation after the 2016 disaster?

Yep.

My family are not theme park people and they protested against going believing it was still unsafe and disrespectful to visit. Once we went they realised that their perception was off, but park kept asking questions about what happened, where it was, etc. For a lot of people, it's still very fresh. As @Brad2912 said, 6 years isn't that long when it comes to these things.

The other unfortunate reality with the usual media negativity bias is that they'll never cover the things that the park has done to improve their situation post-incident. It's a shame that Dreamworld as a park needs to take the fall for the outcome of shitty peoples shitty actions. The park didn't do anything wrong; the negligence came from the people in charge, a vast of majority of which are long gone. 

[franky]

2 hours ago, Dom said:

The park didn't do anything wrong; the negligence came from the people in charge, a vast of majority of which are long gone. 

I sound argumentative here but I'm not trying to be. People in positions shouldn't matter, the business as a whole should have policies and procedures in place to govern these matters. Dreamworld as a business is still responsible, regardless of who is in what position at the time.

I actual felt a little bad for Dreamworld on our visit last week, having come from the village parks and seeing how jam packed the were with guests and with multiple hour waits for rides, and then going to Dreamworld where everything was practically a walk on in a busy holiday period. It was good to see some positive reviews however about peoples experiences in Dreamworld compared to the village parks. However reading through some of these comments people are still either worried about safety following the incident, or salty about the number of attractions that have been removed in recent years (screenshots below are from a ST POV video on youtube).

Even with the addition of Steel Taipan the first thing people seem to do is compare it to DC Rivals, so unless they can manage to better VRTP in some aspect, they're always going to be the poor relative.

So, in my opinion, DW still have two main issues to content with currently: the fallout of 2016, and the fallout of them cleaning up their act, which unfortunately has meant the removal of some attractions with no direct replacements announced.

Steel Taipan is definitely a great addition, and I'd have to say its my number 2 coaster in Australia behind DC Rivals. They really need to back it up with something better, but I know this probably won't happen short term as there are other things in the park that need attention sooner.

[Brad2912]

3 minutes ago, franky said:

People in positions shouldn't matter, the business as a whole should have policies and procedures in place to govern these matters.

The business’s processes and policies are in place, it’s the people that adhere to if they are being followed. 

[Guest 239]

19 minutes ago, franky said:

I sound argumentative here but I'm not trying to be. People in positions shouldn't matter, the business as a whole should have policies and procedures in place to govern these matters. Dreamworld as a business is still responsible, regardless of who is in what position at the time.

I completely get your side of things and I appreciate your insight into that side of the argument. I guess I see it as a 'Guns don't kill people; people kill people.' sort of argument, but then again I may be comparing apples to oranges with that sort of argument.

21 minutes ago, franky said:

which unfortunately has meant the removal of some attractions with no direct replacements announced.

This definitely does hurt the perception of the business. People just don't research theme parks, and when they rock up to find that the attraction they experienced a decade ago is gone they act shocked and surprised. 

[joz]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

 

Enjoy!

[New display name]

On 25/04/2022 at 10:26 AM, rappa said:

Clearly. Just look at the numbers. If they had fully recovered in the eye of the public they would have the same mental numbers of the other parks over Easter. 
They’ll get there (hopefully), will just take time. 

You don't think part of the problem of lower numbers is what DW has to offer has been reduced? 

Ardent Leisure killing people wasn't the only issue, The old Ardent Leisure being shit and not investing in their product left the current team a mountain to climb.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1 hour ago, franky said:

I sound argumentative here but I'm not trying to be. People in positions shouldn't matter, the business as a whole should have policies and procedures in place to govern these matters. Dreamworld as a business is still responsible, regardless of who is in what position at the time.

I actual felt a little bad for Dreamworld on our visit last week, having come from the village parks and seeing how jam packed the were with guests and with multiple hour waits for rides, and then going to Dreamworld where everything was practically a walk on in a busy holiday period. It was good to see some positive reviews however about peoples experiences in Dreamworld compared to the village parks. However reading through some of these comments people are still either worried about safety following the incident, or salty about the number of attractions that have been removed in recent years (screenshots below are from a ST POV video on youtube).

Even with the addition of Steel Taipan the first thing people seem to do is compare it to DC Rivals, so unless they can manage to better VRTP in some aspect, they're always going to be the poor relative.

So, in my opinion, DW still have two main issues to content with currently: the fallout of 2016, and the fallout of them cleaning up their act, which unfortunately has meant the removal of some attractions with no direct replacements announced.

Steel Taipan is definitely a great addition, and I'd have to say its my number 2 coaster in Australia behind DC Rivals. They really need to back it up with something better, but I know this probably won't happen short term as there are other things in the park that need attention sooner.

The business as a whole should have policies in place, but if it doesn't, that is a direct responsibility of the people whom are charged with running it. 

If the folks who lead to the neglect and dangerous conditions (and were negligent) have since left the company, and the folks who now steer that ship have demonstrated that the policies that should have been in place now are, and have cleaned house - both by getting rid of negligent people but also getting rid of non-compliant equipment and machinery - (see also: closed rides) then it stands to reason that it deserves the perception to change.

The park DID kill people. the park IS responsible for the incident and the conditions that lead to it, but THAT park is not the park that it is today.

As for those screenshots - let me sum those up:

1. Every park has a history of maintenance and safety until they don't. Dreamworld argued prior to the incident that they shouldn't need independent inspection because of how good their safety systems were. Movie World was a few loose bolts away from killing more than 4 people, and would have been tarred with that same brush. Don't just judge a company's history - judge it's people.
2. The guy is protesting the loss of the Sky Loop. I think we've heard from him here already. As for the ride losses - why is Rapids understandable, but log flume isn't, considering Sea World also closed their homemade log flume? Tower and Wipeout were both end of life, and Buzz was an ongoing maintenance problem for the park and lacked capacity (and guest interest)- All these rides are 'understandable' in context. The only issue is they happened all at once, but better to wipe the board clean and start fresh with a new team than to continue trying to band-aid things to keep them running and avoid the major capital expenditure the park desperately needs.
3. This guy is talking out his arse. He reckons Taipan is "a tenth" of the DC Rivals height. Taipan is 128ft to Rivals 200ft, but if his view is that being a hypercoaster is all it needs to be the best then i'm not sure I want to give any weight to anything else he says. 

 

Yes, Dreamworld has an image problem, and with so many recent ride removals its going to take a little while to build up their core offering. Memory fades over time, but they also need to show what has changed and give everyone a good reason to return and see for themselves. The media doesn't help, but all fades in time. 

All said and done, if Ardent were to sell to a new owner, even if the shareholders and management stayed much the same, it'd probably be an enormous step in convincing people things had "changed" even though they have already. 

[franky]

1 hour ago, Dom said:

I completely get your side of things and I appreciate your insight into that side of the argument. I guess I see it as a 'Guns don't kill people; people kill people.' sort of argument, but then again I may be comparing apples to oranges with that sort of argument.

No I agree with you, there is still a human (humans?) factor to be considered in all of this, but at the end of the investigation, was any person(s) in particular held responsible? Or was it the business as a whole? When looking at WHS/Financial responsibilities, there's always a personal liability under your role, as well as a business responsibility - both have the potential to cop a fine/penalty if a breach is made. In the US families of the Sandy Hook victims recently settled with Remington... so in a way, I guess guns do kill people

1 hour ago, joz said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

 

Enjoy!

Never knew that was an actual thing. Anecdotally I've heard of the 'Grandad's old axe, it's only had 2 new heads and 4 new handles'. Legally though, the business entity of Dreamworld still exists as it did no matter how many bodies have come and gone since 2016.

6 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

then it stands to reason that it deserves the perception to change.

The park DID kill people. the park IS responsible for the incident and the conditions that lead to it, but THAT park is not the park that it is today.

I completely agree, but I'm talking about public perception, and not that of enthusiasts that understand the changes that have been made. See also, ride stoppage 'news' where people were 'frightened for their lives' while stuck on a lift hill. Here we all know that there is no danger to them, but people that don't know any better don't.

I remember the news video with Greg still in the COO role announcing the closure of TOT2, specifically talking about how there's nothing unsafe about TOT2, it's just time for it to be retired. Along with what happened, I don't necessarily blame anyone for questioning *why* a lot of long standing attractions at Dreamworld are suddenly being removed... was it a result of them being unsafe? (Note that question was rhetorical, we all know this not to be the case, again, public perception).

13 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

All these rides are 'understandable' in context. The only issue is they happened all at once, but better to wipe the board clean and start fresh with a new team than to continue trying to band-aid things to keep them running and avoid the major capital expenditure the park desperately needs.

Understandable to those with an understanding of theme park ride life cycles While standing in both DC Rivals and Superman escape lines I heard people asking what that grey coaster was. I mentioned to one that it used to be Arkham Asylum/Lethal Weapon but it's been decommissioned, to which they replied 'Oh, it seems unusual that they'd decommission a ride', to which I though, yeah, but really no.

23 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

All said and done, if Ardent were to sell to a new owner, even if the shareholders and management stayed much the same, it'd probably be an enormous step in convincing people things had "changed" even though they have already. 

I personally think that ship has sailed. The opportunity for a ownership change / rebrand to save face has well and truly passed, and they've instead decided to double down fixing their reputation, invoking nostalgia of pre 2016 times, moving past the post 2016 ride removals while also acknowledging their history, embracing it and moving forward.

Hopefully Dreamworld have finished their 'consolidation' phase and can now work toward re-expanding again, in a controlled and calculated way!

[Bloxay]

5 hours ago, Dom said:

My family are not theme park people and they protested against going believing it was still unsafe and disrespectful to visit.

Yeah, same. My family and I recently visited for my birthday and kept calling it "Deathworld" and were very hesitant to visit. They criticized a lot of decisions made after the accident (ST placement, memorial site placement), and generally didn't have a good opinion on the park. Is interesting to know that many share that opinion.

[aussienetman]

Blah..  call me a fanboy idc 😂

Yes, Dreamworld has a lot of work to do to rebuild the public's faith but I think the word of mouth after this recent holiday debacle will be helping. In my few visits over the holidays I saw nothing but smiles and happy familys.... An electric atmosphere only made better by the smaller crowds. I think we will see a much more competitive Dreamworld come September.  Thank god the general public don't realise just how close Movieworld came to a catastrophic disaster with Green Lantern or the past few years would tell a very different story. 

[Bloxay]

3 hours ago, aussienetman said:

Blah..  call me a fanboy idc 😂

3 hours ago, aussienetman said:

An electric atmosphere only made better by the smaller crowds.

I love Dreamworld and completely agree. Dreamworld is better in my opinion because of the smaller crowds. Less lines and less stress. I don't share the same opinion as my family with Dreamworld.

 

3 hours ago, aussienetman said:

Thank god the general public don't realise just how close Movieworld came to a catastrophic disaster with Green Lantern or the past few years would tell a very different story. 

What happened with Green Lantern? 👀

Edited April 28, 2022 by Bloxay
Adding more to message

[aussienetman]

Bloxy not super fair for me to compare it to the dreamworld incident as in the end it wasn't VRTPs fault, but a manufacturer issue. (Someone correct me if wrong) I'm sure there will be a thread somewhere on here about it all.  It got a ton of press at the time... 

All I'm saying is that VRTP (and those riders) got very lucky that day. Even if this incident had resulted in deaths, unfortunately who knows if it would have been enough to save the lives on the river rapids at dreamworld a year later or if we would have had two tragedy's in the space of a year. 

Edit: found the thread

 

https://goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/gold-coast/investigations-into-movie-worlds-green-lantern-ride-accident-found-a-bolted-joint-failed/news-story/009e76cbe1a1ebf99ca37e0c9feb8610

Edited April 28, 2022 by aussienetman

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Controversial opinion - I think Village got very lucky with the GL incident. The El Loco had not been done with a 4-abreast car - this was a special for MW. They were also trumpeting steepest drop until that got snatched away at the last minute too. 

Of course, the safety and engineering of the design comes back on the manufacturer every time (and that's why the investigation outcome was what it was) but I wonder how much of that was instigated by the park pushing the need for the larger capacity cars.

I suppose the El Loco hasn't had a perfect safety record outside of MW either though, so probably easier to let S&S wear it... but we'll never know the full truth on that.

[Coasterjoe]

Attendance numbers speak for itself. Its going to take a couple more years for people to forget it i think. I know plenty of fellow parents at my kids school that look in horror when I tell them I take my kids to Dreamworld lol

6 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Controversial opinion - I think Village got very lucky with the GL incident. The El Loco had not been done with a 4-abreast car - this was a special for MW. They were also trumpeting steepest drop until that got snatched away at the last minute too. 

Of course, the safety and engineering of the design comes back on the manufacturer every time (and that's why the investigation outcome was what it was) but I wonder how much of that was instigated by the park pushing the need for the larger capacity cars.

I suppose the El Loco hasn't had a perfect safety record outside of MW either though, so probably easier to let S&S wear it... but we'll never know the full truth on that.

Honestly I have always had my reservations about GL safety and yes, its a terrifying thought how bad things could have gone with the 2015 incident 

[themagician]

I think a lot of people have forgotten about the GL incident too. Because it wasn’t necessarily the parks fault and no one was injured, upon the rides reopening people didn’t seem too worried. But when it happened and for months after it was a major topic.

[Slick]

On 28/4/2022 at 5:28 PM, Bloxay said:

Dreamworld is better in my opinion because of the smaller crowds. Less lines and less stress.

I couldn't resist.

[Levithian]

On 29/04/2022 at 7:34 AM, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Controversial opinion - I think Village got very lucky with the GL incident. The El Loco had not been done with a 4-abreast car - this was a special for MW. They were also trumpeting steepest drop until that got snatched away at the last minute too. 

Of course, the safety and engineering of the design comes back on the manufacturer every time (and that's why the investigation outcome was what it was) but I wonder how much of that was instigated by the park pushing the need for the larger capacity cars.

I suppose the El Loco hasn't had a perfect safety record outside of MW either though, so probably easier to let S&S wear it... but we'll never know the full truth on that.

I understand what you are saying, but either they messed up in the feasibility study, or they jumped the gun too quickly and agreed to build one before they actually planned it through. Ultimately, long before it was built S&S could have said no, we can't build a 4 seater variant and not have it derail itself nearly killing people in the process. 

Instead they designed and built one, installed it and said it's all good. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Yep, everything you say is entirely possible - but it doesn't change the potential that the park pushed for it to be done a certain way - a kind of 'make it happen' attitude. 

S&S aren't exactly top-shelf manufacturers, and they were getting a real foot-hold on the gold coast and competing with the big boys. If you could deliver, you could potentially look at 'favoured supplier' status - like Vekoma\Arrow and Intamin before them. 

Notice though how S&S aren't building anything on the coast these days? I'm fairly certain I remember reading something about MW having a 3-ride-deal with S&S and once the GL incident happened that evaporated.

[Levithian]

Id say, notice how s&s havent built a single el loco anywhere in the world since the incident?

If green lantern is anything to go by, they might not be the most reliable ride either. Could contribute to why they havent built any more (or, more accurately, nobody has purchaed one). 

[Coasterjoe]

6 hours ago, Levithian said:

Id say, notice how s&s havent built a single el loco anywhere in the world since the incident?

If green lantern is anything to go by, they might not be the most reliable ride either. Could contribute to why they havent built any more (or, more accurately, nobody has purchaed one). 

The El Loco model has been plagued with incidents and faults worldwide. Of course there was the epic fail of Twist Coaster Robin in Japan, and then the fatal fall at Adventuredome in 2019 and of course the GL incident among many other mechanical faults and near misses. The ride is also a maintenance nightmare. I would be very suprised to see any new El Loco’s built anywhere.