Arkham asylum replacement theming??

[Rivals]

removing AA also means they are losing their major looping coaster. 

replacing AA with a Vekoma STC & boomerang instead of a SFC & boomerang would’ve been a way better option imo. it would bring a new family attraction to the park that fits well with RRRC, WWF and SC, while also replacing their old major looping coaster with a much more modern, smooth and overall better experience. by the looks and reviews of the first instillation of the STC, it is not overly intense, meaning it would fill the gap nicely between Green Lantern and Superman / DCR. 

i think the “plans” we know of will work for what it is however, if they have changed i think whatever the new plans are could potentially work a lot better. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Rivals

[Dean Barnett]

They should do a ground up RMC - something like Untamed.

It would fit in its spot

 

 

 

High capacity if they run it right (900RPH) lower height limit (120cm) and something that's missing in the GC coaster lineup (huge airtime moments). 36 meters is a nice in-between drop height too. 

 

[pin142]

25 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

It would fit in its spot

You need to remember that there are active film studios and a loud coaster coming as close as you suggested isn't the best of ideas. Arkham caused enough issues when it was operating for productions. I have a feeling the new coasters will be lower to the ground resulting in possibly less of an issue with noise.

[themagician]

There are also the sheds that were built for the Fright Night mazes, and you included Scooby in that footprint too. So that coaster definitely wouldn’t fit 

[Dean Barnett]

OK chill just an idea. It's a custom design so they can just make something fit.  RMC's can spend most of their time close to the ground after the lift hill

[Rivals]

the only RMC i could see fitting into that area (AA plot only) would be a raptor clone of WWGLC or Stunt Pilot. I don’t think that would be the post choice either as much as we’d love it

[Brad2912]

1 hour ago, Dean Barnett said:

OK chill just an idea.

It’s becoming a pattern with you that if anyone disagrees with a suggestion you make, or provides realistic reasons why something isn’t possible, you get all butt hurt.

none of the responses to you were anything other than “chill”. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Brad2912

[rappa]

Its only a disappointment if you want to ride a thrill coaster. 
If you’re a family looking for more to do it’s a win. 
 

I think the addition of Rivals more than counters the loss or Arkham. 

[Proshall Mutta]

Well they need something to dilute the massive queues that Justice League gets. Hopefully this will help!

[Baconjack]

18 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

They should do a ground up RMC - something like Untamed.

It would fit in its spot

Iirc Village had shortlisted a raptor in the site (a custom model, so not a clone of any of the existing installs) but went with the 3 family coasters instead.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Baconjack

[CR4ZE]

On 10/07/2022 at 7:44 PM, Baconjack said:

At first I detested the idea of getting 3 coasters in the same category as Roadrunner, but I've warmed up to the idea of the suspended family coaster over time. I hear decent things about the model in question and it fits the family thrill ride category at MW (currently only occupied by Scooby and WWF) like a glove

Can confirm. I suppose not many enthusiasts have had the chance to experience these yet... I've recently returned from an overseas trip and paid a visit to Energylandia (!!!); I nearly missed the Dragon SFC but got one ride in just before park close and it was a huge surprise. It is a very decent family coaster with great theming, a good kick on the first drop and some nice positives on the helices; naturally it's not super-intense but it fills the niche between all-age attractions a la SDSC and the big thrills of Rivals et cetera. If it's themed well and can pump out a decent capacity with at least two trains, an SFC could be the big sleeper hit we didn't know MW needed. The only question is whether it would be able to "distinguish" itself enough from Escape from Madagascar; the new generation is obviously far superior but they are still of the same family...

(No pun intended).

20 hours ago, pin142 said:

You need to remember that there are active film studios and a loud coaster coming as close as you suggested isn't the best of ideas. Arkham caused enough issues when it was operating for productions. I have a feeling the new coasters will be lower to the ground resulting in possibly less of an issue with noise.

 Just curious, how would building close to the ground specifically negate a noise issue? Noise is determined by speed not height, and naturally you're going faster when closer to ground level. I agree though, based on first-hand experience, that the hybrids run loud, especially as they get low to the ground. 😎

I wonder how much difference would, say, a Raptor make? Would be interesting if anyone has first-hand knowledge of the decibels a Raptor's "roar" produces. To me, they seem to run quite loud as well, although I can't imagine they would be significantly louder than a rickety old SLC...

8 hours ago, rappa said:

I think the addition of Rivals more than counters the loss or Arkham. 

Except that these are very different ride experiences, so MW has lost something that won't be replaced in its line-up. Where else in the line-up are you going to experience multiple inversions, high positives and a shoulder fracture all in the one ride?

[Jobe]

1 hour ago, CR4ZE said:

Except that these are very different ride experiences, so MW has lost something that won't be replaced in its line-up. Where else in the line-up are you going to experience multiple inversions, high positives and a shoulder fracture all in the one ride?

100% accurate. Its not  like for like. DC Rivals was never meant as a replacement for AA anyway and the all the public will see ( rightly so) is a suspended looping coaster being torn down and potentially being replaced with an inferior ride ( in thrills in this case). Its not apples for apples. Also DC Rivals has been open for 4 years. It can hardly be viewed as any potential replacement for a coaster that has stood side by side for that length of time- albeit mostly in a SBNO state.

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Jobe

[Brad2912]

1 hour ago, CR4ZE said:

Just curious, how would building close to the ground specifically negate a noise issue?

Whilst I’m no expert in the field, the higher up sound emanates from the further the noise carries due to generally more “free air” for it to carry undisrupted. The lower to the ground, the more barriers or obstructions to dampen/dissipate sound as if travels (trees, fences, buildings etc) 

 

that all could be complete bullshit I have created in my head, but it’s my understanding of it. 

[Rivals]

say these 3 coasters are the coasters coming, where else could they fit a major coaster? they do need a major looping coaster as there answer for that type of ride has now been removed.

this is the only way i could see them adding another major coaster in the future without removing anything:

they would have to rework a small portion of the back of house area for a coaster in this spot, i could see passing and returning under the bridge due to if it went over the bridge it may make the archway feel less special when going into the park. 

(just an idea and speculation)

as for what type of coaster, a raptor would definetly fit well in this area.

 

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, Rivals said:

say these 3 coasters are the coasters coming, where else could they fit a major coaster? they do need a major looping coaster as there answer for that type of ride has now been removed.

this is the only way i could see them adding another major coaster in the future without removing anything:

they would have to rework a small portion of the back of house area for a coaster in this spot, i could see passing and returning under the bridge due to if it went over the bridge it may make the archway feel less special when going into the park. 

(just an idea and speculation)

as for what type of coaster, a raptor would definetly fit well in this area.

 

Sadly it is very unlikely that part of BOH will be removed any time soon. Has way too much valuable infrastructure there. For example behind Stars Cafe that's actually the main kitchen for the whole park (Well one of 2, the other is at Ricks), and there's a heap of offices for different departments and staff services all in that zone as well as the glasses wash room for Roxy and JL. 

[Tim Dasco]

Post this new expansion project if it goes ahead. These IMO are the only real spots stye can use without serious investment in moving carmakers, studios, BOH etc.

As outlined in Red I could see a flat ride happening here AKA original Doomsday proposal. 

Next could be large scale coaster behind the AA plot depending how far back the coasters go or some sort of large attraction. Would need to move Fright Night sheds.

Green would be to utilise the LTRR building/rebuild LT area bar Roadrunner coaster. 

Blue area at the front could be another large coaster would be another 'carpark coaster' 

[jhunt2]

Green Lantern when it gets another carpark thrill coaster right next to it:

 

[Brad2912]

1 hour ago, Tim Dasco said:

Post this new expansion project if it goes ahead. These IMO are the only real spots stye can use without serious investment in moving carmakers, studios, BOH etc.

As outlined in Red I could see a flat ride happening here AKA original Doomsday proposal. 

Next could be large scale coaster behind the AA plot depending how far back the coasters go or some sort of large attraction. Would need to move Fright Night sheds.

Green would be to utilise the LTRR building/rebuild LT area bar Roadrunner coaster. 

Blue area at the front could be another large coaster would be another 'carpark coaster' 

You won’t get a large scale coaster in either of those 2 locations. 
 

one is too close to the studios, the other too close to neighbouring housing. 

[Jobe]

12 hours ago, rappa said:

FTFY

The main paying guest public will see a big new attraction. 
Many will see a new ride for them to go on when previously there was nothing of interest/too scary/weren’t allowed to ride. 
 

Its important to distinguish the desires of a very tiny small proportion of the parks customer base from the marketability to the mass customer audience in MY opinion.

 Yeah fixed yours for you as well, so no good deed is left unturned.🙂

I have plenty of non enthusiasts friends who will visit Movieworld and see the removal of AA being replaced with a family SFC and 2 family boomerangs as being a bit of a letdown. ( Glad we sorted out it was 3 coasters as well😆) IMHO, a good proportion of the paying public will compare the removal of a 27 year old iconic coaster to what it is being replaced with. Sure it will be a nice shiny new attraction, and there will be plenty ( and rightly so) who will mention that AA was a rough coaster and ride. BUT they will still compare and in this case, my bet is that there will be a fair distribution that will say " Yeah thats a great new attraction but gee it doesnt really hold up to Lethal Weapon" or " Wow I like the new coasters but its nowehere near as intense as the good old Lethal Weapon......" or " Gee remember when the previous coaster that was here?? Now that was an intense ride.." The ride has had 27 years to burn in the consciousness of the public that have visited MW when they were young and now visit with family's of their own. To say that the majority will blithely accept the new additions in an overly positive light probably downgrades most non enthusiasts ability to make a value judgement. I concede that there will be  people will who see what is being installed as a great new attraction ( especially those with young families) but to blanket every non enthusiast in this way is a tad disingenous, for mine. 

23 hours ago, rappa said:

Its only a disappointment if you want to ride a thrill coaster. 
If you’re a family looking for more to do it’s a win. 
 

I think the addition of Rivals more than counters the loss or Arkham. 

See I get what you are saying here and agree in principle but I feel its not as simple or as clear cut as that. Yeah there will be families who will look at this as a win but then you have to look at the segments within the family base. Your statement is true only for those families within a certain age bracket- ie kiddie to say up to maybe 12 year olds. What about the families who visit that have early to young teens who ARE looking for thrills? A thrill coaster will serve their needs just as well if not better as  3 family coasters- some would even be looking for the thrills condition over the family aspect. That doesnt mean they are enthusiasts just that they love a thrill coaster. A big large looping coaster burns more brightly in the consciousness of any person and most of the paying public are very familar with US based theme parks and what they offer. To not have a ride like AA as an option or see it removed and replaced with what is akin to being seen as family coasters would be IMHO, be seen as a bit of a disppointment for that family segment- especially when they compare our parks to their US counterparts. Thats just human nature. 

We have already ascertained that Rivals was never meant to be a direct replacement for AA with the timegap between their installation/removal too large.The paying public would never see Rivals in any other way than the excellent new addition it was, which is an important designation as opposed to classifying it as a replacement.

So in summary do I feel that the 3 new family coasters will be a good addition? Absolutely!! As plenty of posters have pointed out , if these do go ahead, then they will be a strong asset for the park and fill an important gap in the parks offering- which is capacity. However, because we are all enthusiasts here we can see that this argument will hold true. Do I think that most of the paying public will view the coaster in that light? No I do not think so. We cannot put forward an argument from an enthusiasts point of view ( in this case that the new attractions are great for the park from a capacity point of view) to one where we say that only enthusiasts will mourn the fact that we are replacing a thrill coaster with 3 family coasters. That simply is not the clear cut case in this instance. 

Do I think that MW should replace AA with a STC and a family Boomerang? Once again a resounding absolutely- but I do concede that is the enthusiast in me talking.

Do I feel that MW replacing AA with 3 family coasters will be good for the park and fill a much needed gap in their lineup- ie family attractions and capacity soaker?  Yep- repeatedly- absolutely but once again- this is an enthusiast argument and opinion.

I just dont think that we can blanket either of these views over the entire non enthusiast paying public.

What ever the park decides to install I do look forward keenly to see the final product. 

[jjuttp]

20 hours ago, Rivals said:

they do need a major looping coaster

Why does it have to be a looping coaster though? It's just a loop.

[Dean Barnett]

On 12/07/2022 at 11:14 PM, Rivals said:

the only RMC i could see fitting into that area (AA plot only) would be a raptor clone of WWGLC or Stunt Pilot. I don’t think that would be the post choice either as much as we’d love it

As much as I'd love a raptor - they're definitely not a capacity sucker like a huge B&M.. and LPS have a very similar product. Boomerangs seem like a really dumb way to attempt to suck capacity - you can only have one train and its unload/load time to ride ratio sucks. I'd rather 1 Mack Spinning Coaster (since the gold coast are obsessed with spinning rides right now). Something like Sierra Sidewinder with a 105cm height limit. Good for kids and adults, a unique ride every time and you can have 2 trains! and nest that inside a RMC. There's no way it could be louder than the SLC.

And look! Here's another one that's small - and 10ft less height wise.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[pin142]

3 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

And look! Here's another one that's small - and 10ft less height wise.

And as someone who's been overseas I can say it's quite fun too. It is a conversion so I'm more interested to see what can happen locally with a custom ground up RMC.

[Tricoart]

Idk why but I've always thought Dreamworld'd be the ones to get the regions' first RMC. Just makes more sense to me, both for their chain and for the tons of excess space they've got access to. As much as I think 3 kids/family coasters is a very bad call for that location, an RMC's still rather wishful, no matter the size.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

16 hours ago, jjuttp said:

Why does it have to be a looping coaster though? It's just a loop.

There's a general perception amongst park-goers of all walks of life that "upside down = more scary".

Many people walking along next to their fearful friend \ child \ (even parent) saying things like "come on <name> - it doesn't even go upside down!".

Despite the reality that something like Rivals is balls-to-the-wall crazier than say - Sea Viper (inversion ratio of 0:3), and despite enthusiasts saying things like "It's just a loop", inversion count is a big line in the sand for the park-going-public and "OMG IT GOES UPSIDE DOWN" is a +10 modifier to the thrill rating.

16 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

nest that inside a RMC

It's hard to read what the coast's appetite is for a Woodie right now. Though we've long called for a Woodie to be built on the coast (and at the very least, probably as long as this forum has existed which is approaching 20 years now), the fact of the matter is that the first one to get built was announced in May 2019.

Vertical construction was underway by September 2020 and the ride topped out in December 2020, with the final timber frame being installed in March 2021. (Source: Leviathan Construction Blog | Village Roadshow Theme Parks)

And yet... here we are over 3 years since the ride was announced, and it still isn't open despite major construction being completed over a year ago.

I don't know what's going on at Sea World. I've no idea whether this was strategic or out of their control. But it'll be a hard sell to convince Village to build another woodie anytime soon - and I doubt they've got the money to bring RMC out here either.

[Rivals]

11 hours ago, Tricoart said:

Idk why but I've always thought Dreamworld'd be the ones to get the regions' first RMC.

i could definitely see this being the case, especially as they need an airtime focus coaster as well as a good non-launched coaster. i’d love something like Goliath at SFGAM or Twister Timbers at KD. 

does anyone know where the 3 family coasters information came from? was there ever any proof, or just “i heard they were showed this at this place”?

Edited July 15, 2022 by Rivals