Wizard of Oz - Movie World Arkham Asylum Replacement

[Brad2912]

8 hours ago, Levithian said:

You're still floating for the most part, just you might feel the bottom sometimes. You know what really removes the immersion? The ride being closed for good because there are safety concerns. Which do you want? live with the changes or have no ride at all?

From the switchback and going past old faithful through to the Indian reservation you are scraping the floor 90% of the way. It’s incredibly uncomfortable bordering on painful. 
 

So the safety concerns only appeared now after 20+ years that say the water level must be higher, but the new boats must be heavier and lower to drag along the channel - so why didn’t they allow for this when ordering new boats? 
 

in its current state of disrepair, bulldoze the whole thing and start again 

[Spotty]

On 31/12/2024 at 11:35 AM, Levithian said:

 

You would have been working there when the attitude was still if it's part of the ride, we have to return it to service and repair/maintain it. We cant just let it sit out of service. You can say that about a lot of the park now. Must be frustrating for staff that actually care about the place looking its best. 

 

Eh, there was still a few people around at that stage... but the cracks were starting to show around the time that I left (2013). Sadly pretty much all of those people are now long gone.

[Levithian]

1 hour ago, Brad2912 said:

From the switchback and going past old faithful through to the Indian reservation you are scraping the floor 90% of the way. It’s incredibly uncomfortable bordering on painful. 
 

So the safety concerns only appeared now after 20+ years that say the water level must be higher, but the new boats must be heavier and lower to drag along the channel - so why didn’t they allow for this when ordering new boats? 
 

in its current state of disrepair, bulldoze the whole thing and start again 

This is starting to get into its own thread territory. Look, i dont feel comfortable talking about all the details. Obviously you dont believe me when i say it was a serious issue that put the continued operation of the ride at risk.

As to why so long in operation? Why only now? Thats the point of risk assessments and investigations. Sometimes something happens externally (like incidents on similar rides) and forces greater scruitiny and a focus on risk based on worse case scenarios. 

It had nothing to do with the new boats or wanting to change the speed of the ride or anything of the sort. 

Long story short, the water levels were too high/troughs too deep. There was an unacceptable risk found, thoroughly investigated, the safety teams responded as they should have and modifications were made to the depths of the troughs to mitigate the risk. They did everything they should have, credit to the park and the team, it's results allowed continued operation of the ride. I can tell you 100% it would not be in operation today if this process and result had not been completed. 

Do you understand enough of what i said above to leave it at that, or is this going to be a continued issue? 

FYI, contrary to what you might think, the water levels were actually raised in the majority of the ride, not lowered. What you are feeling is new concrete ramps and infill panels raising sections of the trough floors. 

The replacement boats were actually more than 100kg lighter than the old ones and are every bit as boyant. 

If wild west falls was demolished you would never get another ride like it again. Thats the simple reality. Its nowhere near in the budget for developing another flume as big and as detailed as west is. For all its faults and neglect, its a big, expensive ride.

Anything else you think is the problem you want to raise? If you doubt what im saying, go back and look at shutdown photos posted here. Pay close attention to runout 2 (the final drop) and the throughs ahead. Youll see exactly what im talking about and should be able to put 2 + 2 together and work out what the issue might be and why it required these modifications.

There are very little complaints from guest about the roughness of the ride following the modifications, so im going out on a limb by saying the majority of people either never noticed or werent phased much by the changes and would still rather the ride stayed open. 

 

 

Edited January 1 by Levithian

[Coppertine]

4 hours ago, Levithian said:

people either never noticed or werent phased much by the changes and would still rather the ride stayed open. 

Honestly, I liked when you speed through the canyons, it made the falling rocks effect that more thrilling. The only rough parts were actually on the NON-water parts of the ride (partically the backwards section). Other than that. It's in pretty damn good condition for amount of time it's been here for.

[webslave]

9 hours ago, Levithian said:

Do you understand enough of what i said above to leave it at that, or is this going to be a continued issue? 

I think this encapsulates the problems a lot of people (not specifically in theme parks and amusements) have with the risk industry; there's a trend toward "it's a risk because we have said it is and no further correspondence shall be entered into".  There's far less willingness to discuss the quantum of the risk on its merits, and even less-so to do it in the context of what the mitigation may entail.  Some say it's a pendulum and it may well be, but it's a rather slow one.

It's why we can't have nice things.

[Levithian]

2 hours ago, webslave said:

I think this encapsulates the problems a lot of people (not specifically in theme parks and amusements) have with the risk industry; there's a trend toward "it's a risk because we have said it is and no further correspondence shall be entered into".  There's far less willingness to discuss the quantum of the risk on its merits, and even less-so to do it in the context of what the mitigation may entail.  Some say it's a pendulum and it may well be, but it's a rather slow one.

It's why we can't have nice things.

You could work out the risk for yourself and openly discuss anything you think might be an issue or a concern. 

It has everything to do with the fact that employees (even past ones) are not supposed to share anything from back of house, full stop. They sign media policies and disclosure agreements. You can see anyone who does tread a fine line between ok and giving away too much that might raise the ire of the parks or management. Often this information is shared with people who want to respect the source and the trust placed in them to keep certain details private. Its pretty much how any info makes its way out from behind the scenes.

So coming out and detailing in full why things are as they are, or why they do what they do probably isn't going to happen. Not unless its obviously been outed by someone else and its no longer confidential.

You have to appreciate there is a difference between discussing the impending debut of a new churro cart vs things surrounding operational procedures, safety or incidents that may have a legal responsibility attached (on both sides).

Sometimes you just have to settle with what people are prepared to talk about, and hopefully there is enough info in their posts to understand the person is probably telling the truth. 

Or you don't. But its probably not going to change their feelings on the matter.

Edited January 2 by Levithian

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

On 01/01/2025 at 11:44 AM, Levithian said:

You know what really removes the immersion? The ride being closed for good because there are safety concerns. Which do you want? live with the changes or have no ride at all?

Honestly, if they can't operate it as intended, if they have to neuter the experience to the point it isn't worth doing, yes, i'd rather that they closed it.

[Levithian]

Thats a valid feeling, but its in the minority.

Its still an excellent ride that should stay open, it just deserves a bit of attention...

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

15 hours ago, Levithian said:

Thats a valid feeling, but its in the minority.

Yeah right, and doomsday was neutered 'due to guest feedback' too.

[jjuttup]

4 hours ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Yeah right, and doomsday was neutered 'due to guest feedback' too.

And guests personally asked that Wipeout be closed and replaced with oversized chairs.

[Baconjack]

On 5/1/2025 at 1:27 AM, Levithian said:

Thats a valid feeling, but its in the minority.

Its still an excellent ride that should stay open, it just deserves a bit of attention...

Bit of attention is putting it lightly.

Havent been on West in years but a solid three quarters of the effects aren’t working in recent POV’s. I’d have a hard time finding anything that did work beyond the water spitting out of the bucket. It’s genuinely in a horrible state.

It’s the same story as superman - I’m too tall to ride it now but when “The tremors are getting worse continue to metropolis station as quickly as you can” plays twice and the pre launch audio doesn’t play “Tunnel collapse is imminent 15 seconds to cave in” anymore (as noted in all recent POV’s), something’s up.

Should have been given a bit more of a looking at when they installed the new boats I reckon.

[Levithian]

19 hours ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Yeah right, and doomsday was neutered 'due to guest feedback' too.

Doomsday was a pile of crap from day one. It wasnt forced upon them.

Very big difference. 

They also spent almost zero money (and time) in maintaining the precinct which was a shame.

Its what you get when an upper level management culture doesnt seem to care how bad things look. Trees growing out of buildings anyone? 

8 hours ago, Baconjack said:

Bit of attention is putting it lightly.

Havent been on West in years but a solid three quarters of the effects aren’t working in recent POV’s. I’d have a hard time finding anything that did work beyond the water spitting out of the bucket. It’s genuinely in a horrible state.

Should have been given a bit more of a looking at when they installed the new boats I reckon.

They did. It got a whole new site/sound control system and audio upgrade with a qsys core. Very good quality, everything can be managed remotely. 

Problem? You have to put money into everything else too. There are some tallented people working behind the scenes who actually give a damn, but they are up against it getting budgets approved. Not just talking cap ex stuff, but the manpower required to repair and maintain things too. Eventually the system grinds them into submission and they either give up, or give up and quit. 

Want a great example of this? Look at justice league. Multiple system upgrades over the years so the technology actually running everything experienced forced upgrades, but little spent elsewhere to correct or update the sound and lighting. All the money they spent to only do half of the works.

When it comes to visuals,  theming and effects, they always seem to be the first things cut from the budget even though the ride was fully costed and the spend approved.

Its like having an F1 engine sitting in your grandmas old 1978 toyota crown. Completely under utilised and in desperate need of a transplant. It drives, steers and brakes, so thats all that matters. Only gets attention when it cant do the weekly shopping trip. Then its like the world is ending because its unreliable and finally broken down for good.

No shit? Youve neglected repairs and upgrades for years. The tyres are shot, only one headlight works, theres no seatbelts and it only has 2 gears working in the transmission. Are you really surprised when you get a bill to overhaul and restore everything that makes you consider buying a new car, even though the engine under the bonnet is worth an average house in the suburbs? Why did you spend all that money on a new engine if you were only going to do half the job?

Ohh, just spend the absolute minimum to get it physically driving again? we promise to look at everything else "next financial year"? Speak to us then as we may just scrap the whole thing or shutter it and pretend it doesnt exist when we change our minds next week.

Edited January 6 by Levithian

[themagician]

1 hour ago, Levithian said:

Problem? You have to put money into everything else too.

And they want to spend over $300 million on a fancy hotel and events centre, but the theme park isn't even operating to the standard it should be.

They don't really seem to have their priorities right or maybe we don't have our priorities right?!

[New display name]

The DA approval for a new hotel, doesn't confirm Village want to spend $300 million on a hotel.   What we do know is a private equity group purchased Village and if we know private equity groups, one day they will want to offload Village for a profit.  Having a DA like a major hotel in place at sale, is one way to raise the value of Village.

Village have had a DA in place forever for cabins at PC, and the most Village have invested into Farmstay is some tents.

[Levithian]

You have to act on it though, having planning approval doesnt last for ever, it lapses if you dont continue the process and you have to reapply. 

1 hour ago, themagician said:

And they want to spend over $300 million on a fancy hotel and events centre, but the theme park isn't even operating to the standard it should be.

They don't really seem to have their priorities right or maybe we don't have our priorities right?!

You are 100% right. While they have made some improvments visually to parts of the park, replacing obviously run down and rotted out parts of buildings, the quality as a whole just isnt there. 

For my money, what really underlined they werent concerned with looks was when they started replacing hand drawn/painted signs and murals with decals and screen printed nonsense. To me, thats management saying we dont care for quality, what it used to look like or what it will look like in the future. I could understand temporary measures, but to permanently replace things like detailed, sculptured signage with things stuck/printed on sheets of ACP.... thats really just naff. 

Once upon a time there used to be a great manager at village who had the attitude you cant add or remove anything that would devalue the park or the guest experience. Sure could use a little or that sentiment right now. 

Edit: people shouldnt be quick to blame equity partners either. The management teams largely went unchanged. While the partners obviously ultimately have control over operations and the business direction, the management team still run the park. Their attitudes, their reporting and decisions they make, its what youre seeing directly represented. Even when roughly half the operations and senior management team split, left or retired prior to the aquisition, it was more of the same and business as usual. 

Edited January 6 by Levithian

[New display name]

Or you just pay the council a small fee for an extension.

The DA approval for the cabins has undergone multiple extensions.

 

[themagician]

2 hours ago, New display name said:

What we do know is a private equity group purchased Village and if we know private equity groups, one day they will want to offload Village for a profit.

So why spend $100 million on a partly underwhelming ‘world-class’ land?

[New display name]

Because nobody believes they spent $100m.

Village could build the hotel but all I am saying is, Village getting a DA for the hotel, doesn't guarantee Village wanted to build the hotel.

Village also have currency period of six years before the DA lapses or Village request an extension.

Edited January 6 by New display name

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

On 06/01/2025 at 3:37 PM, themagician said:

So why spend $100 million on a partly underwhelming ‘world-class’ land?

Yeah, WOZ isn't $100 Million no matter what the Village C-Suite is smoking snorting.

But why spend it? Because Arkham was an open wound on the park. It was clearly a void in the park lineup and you couldn't just get away with paying no attention to the man behind the curtain. If they really wanted to, Wild West could be closed off and the park wouldn't look like it was missing something, but the alley ways to arkham from literally 3 different areas of the park are a bit hard to paper over. 

They had to fill in a big hole in their lineup - both demographically and geographically.

[Levithian]

Wasnt the spend the combined total across parks? Where did the 100 million figure actually come from?

They had always been planning to remove arkham, long before it eventually went sbno. Its fate was pretty much sealed after the turnaround following the dreamworld accident and govco introduced new guidelines.  They just intended to continue running it longer than they did rather than sitting.

Back when they were announcing planned spends during/after covid, it was to incorporate a new precinct. 

[TV15]

23 minutes ago, Levithian said:

Wasnt the spend the combined total across parks? Where did the 100 million figure actually come from?

https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/entertainment/wizard-of-oz-first-look-at-new-100m-theme-park-attraction-at-warner-bros-movie-world/news-story/2e1afb6f24cdee26672713250000a117

https://www.ausleisure.com.au/news/wizard-of-oz-precinct-opens-at-warner-bros-movie-world/

In the span of 2 years, the project went from 40 million to 100.

https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/future-gold-coast/when-flash-wizard-of-oz-rides-will-open-at-movie-world/news-story/9288ed9ca54a1737cd008aa017e9d18c - Most recent confirmation of this price, reported as 40 million

https://www.couriermail.com.au/lifestyle/movie-world-unveils-first-glimpse-of-new-entertainment-precinct/news-story/b261a0da388c24496c585c11a0b6b15f - Reoprted as 40 million

However the press release does not include a specific price, so either someone (one of the big wigs) that was talking to the press on opening day had no idea what they're talking about, or someone at VRTP needs to be fired if this is how they spent 100 million. Rivertown was reportedly 55 million... and they got a lot of bang for their buck.

 

[Baconjack]

Yeah thanks for the links I knew that I read somewhere that WOZ was initially quoted at a much smaller figure. 

Im going to go out on a limb and say they’ve combined the spend with Flash and the scooby renovation. Maybe that might make a bit more sense then but I still don’t think all of those things add up to $100m.

[themagician]

6 hours ago, TV15 said:

In the span of 2 years, the project went from 40 million to 100.

I have a feeling that the land still indeed cost $40 million (coasters and theming), but maybe this magic $100 million is including the removal of AA and the actual license of the Wizard of Oz IP. We know IP isn’t cheap and if they’ve got this contract for 10-15 years, I could see that costing a lot of money. And of course, Village see as saying they spent $100 million a lot better than the $40 million.

[New display name]

100% they included WOZ IP cost in the $100m.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

There is no way the IP cost more than the hardware.