Viking’s Revenge Flume Ride Removal

[Naazon]

Aren't there less dugong exhibitions because they dont do well in captivity?

[Tricoart]

19 minutes ago, Naazon said:

Aren't there less dugong exhibitions because they dont do well in captivity?

The only thing I have seen in regards to that is that it’s hard to grow seagrass, but the prevalence of manatee in captivity seem to mean that’s a non-issue elsewhere. I think the main reason there aren’t more dugong is just ‘cause manatee have been so easy to source for many reasons, which (when mixed with some other things) just means it hasn’t really been that worth it for places that could’ve hypothetically kept dugong to choose them over a different species (like manatee).

22 minutes ago, Gazza said:

The dugongs that used to be there are the ones that were moved to Sea Life Sydney. But one has since died, and Pig’s life expectancy is up in the air due to the lack of study into the life expectancy of captive dugong, but after Pig inevitably passes there’ll be no more dugong in captivity in Australia. Hence why Sea World exhibiting them again would be pretty worthwhile.

Edited April 11 by Tricoart

[Gazza]

How do you get a Dugong?

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I think any animal rights groups are going to kick up a stink regardless of the animal introduced to the park, but I think the rarity and the difficulties associated with Dugong take it out of the list of possibilities immediately.

I'm ok with an ASC Otter. The animals are insanely popular in every place i've ever seen them, they're endearing, and they enjoy human interactions. They're practically domestic animals in some countries, so likely one of the least controversial options too.

I like the idea of over near the outdoor penguins... certainly a good 'fit'.

[New display name]

15 minutes ago, Gazza said:

How do you get a Dugong?

I don't think you're ready for the birds and the bees talk yet.  //s

[Tricoart]

32 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

I think any animal rights groups are going to kick up a stink regardless of the animal introduced to the park, but I think the rarity and the difficulties associated with Dugong take it out of the list of possibilities immediately.

If Sea World are continuing with their dolphins, despite some being from the wild, and with animal rights groups proportionately targeting cetaceans much more than any other animal group, the backlash from groups would either be relatively minimal or be easily explained against, provided again that the reason for/means of sourcing dugong was in keeping with their more recent practices, and the space allocated for them is suitable in size. Remember, it wasn’t too long ago that they were planning on adding captive-bred hippopotamus and gorillas, rescued dugongs shouldn’t be too far-fetched of an idea. 

32 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

I'm ok with an ASC Otter. The animals are insanely popular in every place i've ever seen them, they're endearing, and they enjoy human interactions. They're practically domestic animals in some countries, so likely one of the least controversial options too.

It’d be hard for me to not see them as a disappointing, generic pick for me, but a generic pick is better than no pick. And yeah, undeniably, people would like them.

Edited April 11 by Tricoart

[Gazza]

I'd be all for otters, they are cute and funny.

With a Dugong, I thought SW only got pig because it was injured, and was rescued.

[Tricoart]

10 minutes ago, Gazza said:

I'd be all for otters, they are cute and funny.

With a Dugong, I thought SW only got pig because it was injured, and was rescued.

Yes, the same case can be said for the shark/s & turtles in Shark Bay, their polar bears, and the dolphins scattered throughout the park. Most of their major species seem to be rescues, and dugongs wouldn’t be any different (the dugong in Japan & Abu Dhabi are both also rescues, though Japan did attempt to begin a breeding program at one point). And they’re being rescued/conserved by Sea World somewhat commonly, they just haven’t ended up in a public-facing enclosure here since Pig & Wuru.

Edited April 11 by Tricoart

[Naazon]

Pretty sure that's because they are rescued, rehabilitated and released. Of recent the only animals SW has kept are unable to be released or captive breeding programs where they are still utilised for breeding or where born in captivity don't survive in the wild.

[New display name]

3 hours ago, Tricoart said:

The only thing I have seen in regards to that is that it’s hard to grow seagrass, but the prevalence of manatee in captivity seem to mean that’s a non-issue elsewhere. I think the main reason there aren’t more dugong is just ‘cause manatee have been so easy to source for many reasons, which (when mixed with some other things) just means it hasn’t really been that worth it for places that could’ve hypothetically kept dugong to choose them over a different species (like manatee).

The dugongs that used to be there are the ones that were moved to Sea Life Sydney. But one has since died, and Pig’s life expectancy is up in the air due to the lack of study into the life expectancy of captive dugong, but after Pig inevitably passes there’ll be no more dugong in captivity in Australia. Hence why Sea World exhibiting them again would be pretty worthwhile.

There aren't many dugongs kept in captivity world wide.  I suspect it's due to their diet and how they eat.

Edited April 11 by New display name

[Tricoart]

17 minutes ago, New display name said:

There aren't many dugongs kept in captivity world wide.  I suspect it's due to their diet and how they eat.

Again, no. They eat seagrass & other aquatic plants, as is the case for all sirenians, including the West Indian Manatee, which is a much more widespread species in captivity. They’re not kept because of their conservation status & location meaning there’s more laws around their protection/welfare (and, therefore, one can’t just grab one from the wild for no reason and exhibit it in an enclosure that doesn’t meet minimum standards, as was usually the case for a lot of individuals at the beginning of these breeding programs), their native range not being as easily accessible to most facilities who do captive breeding programs for sirenians (NA/EU), and the abundance of sirenians that have established breeding programs (again, West Indian Manatees) making those species the easier to source, and therefore more attractive, option for a lot of facilities.

Edited April 11 by Tricoart

[New display name]

I know they eat seagrass, but I don't know many 7-elevens that sell seagrass.  The seagrass dugongs eat on the GC, is all protected, as I think for the rest of Australia too.

[Tricoart]

23 minutes ago, New display name said:

I know they eat seagrass, but I don't know many 7-elevens that sell seagrass.  The seagrass dugongs eat on the GC, is all protected, as I think for the rest of Australia too.

If it’s protected, that doesn’t mean it’s unable to be grown for captive populations. Also, I doubt you’ll find ringed seal blubber at your local 7/11, either. I really don’t see what you’re getting at here, the complication with the species isn’t their habitat requirements, it’s almost solely due to the current lack of any captive facilities, or cohesion between them. And, if anyone could provide dugongs with a substantial facility in the region, and successfully begin a breeding program for the species (either to further captive populations, or the more beneficial & likely option, for rewilding), it’s Sea World.

Edited April 11 by Tricoart

[Gazza]

From memory they would get premium lettuce for Pig and then poke it into a sort of PVC pipe manifold that was placed on the tank floor, to recreate grazing seagrass.

[Tricoart]

Exactly, more often than not the exact food that wild populations eat are easily substituted in captivity. Hence the ‘ringed seal’ comment, as Sea World successfully substitutes more easily accessible meat (chicken, veal, pork, beef, various fish species) for their Polar Bears, with no complication.

Edited April 11 by Tricoart

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

2 minutes ago, Tricoart said:

I really don’t see what you’re getting at here

That much is pretty clear, though i'm not sure its anyone else's fault.

Put simply you've already hit it on the head - dugongs are only going to come into captivity if they are rescued. Sea World's priority is rehabilitation and release. And then, and only then, will they remain in captivity if they cannot be released.

It is highly unlikely the park is going to invest in a prime habitat, on prime real estate, with particular set up, filtration and care systems, on the off chance one is hurt, able to be rescued, able to survive, but not able to be released back into the wild.

Speaking of Wild, I think the situation with Gorillas and Hippos is a little different, as the animals already existed in captivity, and needed to be transferred by their current homing facility. Sure, Sea World could acquire a Dugong from another existing facility, but this would only occur if the other facility required to rehome, which is also unlikely if they have already established habitat and facilities.

I'm struggling to find a good metaphor here. If they had a Dugong in permanent care in 'back of house' facilities, and you were advocating for them to build a 'showcase habitat' for them to house the animal permanently in a guest accessible area, i'd be all for it, but since they don't have one, it kinda feels like a bit of a pointless argument...

Because....

3 hours ago, Gazza said:

How do you get a Dugong?

 

[Tricoart]

24 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

That much is pretty clear, though i'm not sure it’s anyone else's fault.

Good job taking my statement out of context.

For that matter, I don’t think you’re seeing what I’m getting at, either. I don’t mean solely making a public-facing facility on the off chance another that Pig shows up, I’m talking about establishing a breeding program. In captivity, Toba Aquarium in Japan has a female, Sea World Abu Dhabi has a juvenile male, and Sydney has Pig. With a breeding program in place, they could source a minimal number of wild specimens, and partner with some or all of these facilities to rotate individuals between them as to maintain genetic diversity, and increase the numbers available both for captivity, and to be rewilded. A facility like such could also, in the scenario that one is unable to be rereleased (like Pig, the female at Toba, or the juvenile at SeaWorld Abu Dhabi), simultaneously act as providing such cases with a home, both allowing it to live in peace & increasing the diversity of captive populations further (see also: Hudson & Nelson). And, with dugong populations vulnerable & decreasing, a captive breeding program, even not solely for rewilding, is a unideal but manageable fallback.

Edited April 11 by Tricoart

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Why do Japan, Abu Dhabi and Sydney need Gold Coast to get involved? Why can't they just play amongst themselves without involving a third (fourth) party?

Toba Aquarium already tried a breeding program with Serena over 16 years without success. Dugong reproduction is extremely slow. Dugong don't achieve reproductive maturity until they're around 14 or so, and females only calf in the wild every 3-5 years or so, provided all conditions are optimal. 

Malqout in Abu Dhabi was a month old when rescued in 2019, so likely won't reach reproductive maturity for at least another 5 years.

 

You're asking a facility, that doesn't have any of the species, to ask 3 other facilities that do, to stress the animal by transporting it (in some cases across continents) for what - to stick a male and a female in a purpose built facility, and sit around and pour money into it, possibly for years, while the 2-3 facilities that have loaned theirs sit around with a vacant exhibit for... how long?

Toba tried for 16 years. There are numerous papers on Dugong, including husbandry, some of these even funded by Sea World.

Why not ship Pig to Toba - arguably they have facilities? Why not bring Serena to Sydney? They had capacity for 2 Dugong as they used to have Wuru there with Pig too...

 

Unless you're some sort of marine biologist with decades of observations in the Dugong, i'm not quite sure why you think that the experts in these world class marine life facilities are getting it so wrong? 

[Naazon]

Because there is a spot of land where a ride used to be. Duh.

[Tricoart]

Again, not getting what I’m saying. Just play amongst yourselves atp, can’t be assed repeating the same thing a third time over.

Edited April 11 by Tricoart

[Brad2912]

8 minutes ago, Tricoart said:

Again, not getting what I’m saying. Just play amongst yourselves atp, can’t be assed repeating the same thing a third time over.

Hate to say it mate, but NO ONE has any idea what you are trying to get at under the weight a mass information on why what you are saying makes little sense 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

13 hours ago, Tricoart said:

can’t be assed repeating the same thing a third time over.

Honestly it's probably better that you don't - nobody understood you the first two times either. It sounds more like a 'you' problem.

At any rate, the group consensus is that a ride is needed, not an animal exhibit, so the discussion is moot. (And I still want Otters)

[RobMac]

World Class WATER based attraction for SEA World....Viking Revenge MarkII....with next generation wetter water.... 😎

[downunder]

Don't forget it will be the world's most iconic water ride.

[Tricoart]

Small update for the former VR area as a whole:

The path up to the castle is once again open to guests…

But the castle itself has both entrances boarded up the same way that VR’s entrance & exit cutouts are. Here’s hoping it’s not permanent, and the building/plot will actually have a use (especially considering they’ve just built a BoH shed in prime expansion area), and keeping this as a shell would be very disappointing.

Anyway, quick pic of the new pathway after being grown in a bit more.

And progress on the fence for what’s very likely to end up as another walkway (former station area). I guess it could be argued this is would open up a more wheelchair accessible way to get from Nickelodeon to Storm, but it still doesn’t sit great with me seeing all this space be seemingly used for nothing more than a path & lawn, especially for a landlocked park that, again, just plonked a shed in their best expansion plot.

 

Edited May 23 by Tricoart