Top Thrill Dragster at Cedar Point "Closing"

[Dean Barnett]

Throughput with 3 trains and a full circuit is bad enough and.. I don't think humans are made to launch that quickly backwards... although with LSM's its probably fine. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[Gazza]

A multi pass launch on something like TTD would be a downgrade though IMO.

The whole point is 0-120mph like a dragster, not being a giant Wicked Twister.

[Rivals]

I think all they’ll do is add LSM’s and a camel back after the drop as well as new trains + queue relocation.

LSM’s are more precise and reliable then a Hydraulic Launch which alone would make the ride twice as reliable (intamin LSM’s launch’s look intense so won’t be that much of a take away)

Allegedly, TTD use to get stuck a lot during the last portion of the ride with the breaks being on straight track (hence why Stealth, Red Force, Kingda Ka ect, have a hill to let the ride slide through the breaks) so adding a camel back adds an element + removes the possibility of that happening, therefor creating an even more reliable ride

and new trains obviously due to them needing new trains to line up properly with the LSM’s ect.

It may not seem like a lot, but in reality it is and should make the ride a lot more reliable compared to its current state. Also by moving the queue line out of the rides envelope, it frees room for a flat ride or two which makes sense due to the park being landlocked.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Rivals

[Dean Barnett]

I don't think there's room for the queue to be anywhere else.. they could put a small flat in the area that's aready vacant. 

 

[Rivals]

Just now, Dean Barnett said:

I don't think there's room for the queue to be anywhere else.. they could put a small flat in the area that's aready vacant. 

 

There’s markers around the ride which lead into the queue + bushes ect being removed so the general idea is queue relocation. 

It’s rumoured the queue will have a couple switchbacks in the top part of the envelope near the station, pass under the break run / potential camelback and either wrap back around going behind the top hat or towards the final turn into the station.

[mattcrombie]

Never got to ride Top Thrill Dragster but went on similar. Kingda Ka. 

[Dean Barnett]

TTD's restraints were so much better.

[Dean Barnett]

My bad.. The actual end of the launch is here, before the brakes for the catch car. 

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[Ogre]

14 hours ago, Gazza said:

You can always ride Kingda Ka

Kingda looks great, but I had always heard better things about Dragster (especially due to the restraints).

[Dean Barnett]

 

Brake fins on the launch track have been removed - so I'm very confident that its going to convert to a LSM launch.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[Coasterjoe]

You know ive been doing some soul searching about my recent comments and looking back I think I was being a little silly. 
 

The sheer cost of doing anything to the current layout would be astronomical and taking a huge risk if they make dramatic changes to the layout. Removing the ride would also cost probably more than building a new coaster. So the most logical thing is to upgrade to LSM. 
 

I underestimated now how big of a job simply changing the launch system will actually be and when I consider that than its probably major enough to post what they posted. I still feel they will need to add something that the GP will notice, this could be as simple as a new more immersive station 🤷‍♂️ 

[Tricoart]

4 hours ago, Coasterjoe said:

I still feel they will need to add something that the GP will notice, this could be as simple as a new more immersive station 🤷‍♂️ 

If it gets repainted, gets a new name, has a queue reroute, gets new trains, uses a new LSM launch, and even potentially gets Kingda Ka brakerun, I'd say that's more than enough to be recognizably different.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Tricoart

[Dean Barnett]

The GP is going to be able to tell the difference between a hydraulic launch and LSM. 100%

[Rivals]

Intamin LSM’s aren’t bad at all and look quite intense, im

eure the public would much rather a different launch feeling then it be completely demolished. Since the track would need to be replaced for the launch and potentially if they do add a camel back, i wonder if they’ll just replace all of the track to make it run for many more years.

[Slick]

Keep in mind that most major OEMs often get components from the same suppliers and not 100% of every ride is built from scratch from that OEM. With that in mind, launch tech has come a long way since Tower of Terror (even between the first Blue Fire and our one), and there’s been notable gains in regards to efficiency from multiple fronts. Therefore it wouldn’t surprise me at this point if the hardware has matured enough to do a 1:1 replacement of the hydraulic launch without too much additional work needed. 
 

Could be wrong though, could be sick to see a multi-launch dragster with a reverse spike. 

[Dean Barnett]

Blue Fire was built in 2009 - Red Force was built in 2017 with exactly the same layout as TTD. 
 

12 years of development - and the launch is still nothing compared to hydraulic TTD. 

[rappa]

Given TTD is widely said to have a less forceful launch than eXcelerator anyway, does that mean TTD is more about the total top speed and height anyway so the launch system matters less?

 

Given the above I’d be sad to see xcel closed/changed because that launch is proper mental. 

[Rivals]

Also, if the hydraulic launch system is making the ride be down more then 60% of the time, yeah it might be a good launch but would you rather have a powerful launch but a ride closed 60% of the time, or a slightly less powerful launch with the ride down probably 20-30% of the time?

[Slick]

1 hour ago, Dean Barnett said:

Blue Fire was built in 2009 - Red Force was built in 2017 with exactly the same layout as TTD. 
 

12 years of development - and the launch is still nothing compared to hydraulic TTD. 

To be fair you’re loading in a lot of assumptions to reach that conclusion, including an assumption that somehow Red Force tried and failed to beat Dragster (the reality is Port Aventura wanted to have Europe’s tallest and fastest coaster, and Intamin designed a solution that achieved those specs).

Comparing modern LIMs to Tower of Terror’s LSMs, they use roughly a third the electrical input for twice the kinetic force output. That’s not bad for two decades of innovation, and I’m sure it’s continued to mature over time too. 

[Dean Barnett]

2 hours ago, rappa said:

Given TTD is widely said to have a less forceful launch than eXcelerator anyway 

I've done both about a week apart. If TTD was a ten.. Xcelerator would be like a 5.5.

 

1 hour ago, Rivals said:

but would you rather have a powerful launch but a ride closed 60% of the time, or a slightly less powerful launch with the ride down probably 20-30% of the time?

I'd rather a more powerful launch. Other parks can already offer less powerful launches.

 

1 hour ago, Slick said:

Comparing modern LIMs to Tower of Terror’s LSMs, they use roughly a third the electrical input for twice the kinetic force output. That’s not bad for two decades of innovation, and I’m sure it’s continued to mature over time too. 

GP don't care about how much power a coaster consumes.

 

The only better alternative would be an compressed air launch.. but I'm not sure it would be physically possible (and unlikely because they'd still need the brake fins on the launch.. which they removed)

Edited September 13, 2022 by Dean Barnett

[Naazon]

1 hour ago, Dean Barnett said:

I've done both about a week apart. If TTD was a ten.. Xcelerator would be like a 5.5.

 

I'd rather a more powerful launch. Other parks can already offer less powerful launches.

 

GP don't care about how much power a coaster consumes.

 

The only better alternative would be an compressed air launch.. but I'm not sure it would be physically possible (and unlikely because they'd still need the brake fins on the launch.. which they removed)

Funny, from my research online, TTD and Xcelerator offer the same launch G-Force

Additionally, this claims airpowered launch has the highest G-Force out of all launch coasters, so I wonder if a little subjective reality is at play here? Potentially seating arrangements and forced perspective guiding your opinion.

Only hydraulic launch I've been on is superman but I have been on Do-dodonpa and yeah its bloody forceful.

[Coasterjoe]

1 hour ago, Dean Barnett said:

I've done both about a week apart. If TTD was a ten.. Xcelerator would be like a 5.5.

 

Thats really interesting. I hear a lot of enthusiasts claim Xcelerator as the superior ride but I suspected there is a bit of favouritism at play. I haven’t ridden either personally but both are on my bucketlist 

[Dean Barnett]

I feel like the official TTD acceleration time is off - ElToroRyan reckons its closer to 3.0 secs by going off the POV video where the brake for the catch car starts .. so assuming that's wrong and everything else is correct -

TTD - 193km/h in 3 seconds

Xcellerator - 132km/h in 2.3 seconds (37% slower top speed, 26% quicker time)

MaxxForce - 125km/h in 2 seconds (42% slower top speed, 33% quicker time)

Superman - 100km/h in 2 seconds (63% slower top speed, 33% quicker time)

Food for thought. 

[Naazon]

3 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

I feel like the official TTD acceleration time is off - ElToroRyan reckons its closer to 3.0 secs by going off the POV video where the brake for the catch car starts .. so assuming that's wrong and everything else is correct -

TTD - 193km/h in 3 seconds

Xcellerator - 132km/h in 2.3 seconds (37% slower top speed, 26% quicker time)

MaxxForce - 125km/h in 2 seconds (42% slower top speed, 33% quicker time)

Superman - 100km/h in 2 seconds (63% slower top speed, 33% quicker time)

Food for thought. 

Some simple math on that (more variations 100% at play but lets roll with it)

TTD - 193km/h in 3 seconds -  1.82g

TTD - 193km/h in 3.8 seconds (seen this reported) - 1.437g

TTD - 193km/h in 4 seconds (seen this reported) - 1.365g

Xcellerator - 132km/h in 2.3 seconds (37% slower top speed, 26% quicker time) - 1.623g

MaxxForce - 125km/h in 2 seconds (42% slower top speed, 33% quicker time) - 1.768g

Superman - 100km/h in 2 seconds (63% slower top speed, 33% quicker time) - 1.414g

 

For additional reference to your Air Launch comment:

Do-dodopa is 0-180km/h in 1.6 seconds  - 3.2g (since 2017)

Do-dodopa is 0-172km/h in 1.8 seconds  - 2.7g (pre-2017)

[Slick]

2 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

GP don't care about how much power a coaster consumes.

Don't shift the goal posts. The point was demonstrating that basing any assumptions on analysis of technology that's more than twelve months old isn't going to give you reliable results, especially if you're using it to correlate wild assumptions.

20 minutes ago, Naazon said:

Some simple math on that (more variations 100% at play but lets roll with it)

TTD - 193km/h in 3 seconds -  1.82g

TTD - 193km/h in 3.8 seconds (seen this reported) - 1.437g

TTD - 193km/h in 4 seconds (seen this reported) - 1.365g

Xcellerator - 132km/h in 2.3 seconds (37% slower top speed, 26% quicker time) - 1.623g

MaxxForce - 125km/h in 2 seconds (42% slower top speed, 33% quicker time) - 1.768g

Superman - 100km/h in 2 seconds (63% slower top speed, 33% quicker time) - 1.414g

 

For additional reference to your Air Launch comment:

Do-dodopa is 0-180km/h in 1.6 seconds  - 3.2g (since 2017)

Do-dodopa is 0-172km/h in 1.8 seconds  - 2.7g (pre-2017)

Appreciate you doing the math.