...and so it begins;

[Gazza]

Apparently this one is new too (top of page): http://www.roller-coaster.com.au/gallery.php?gid=121

[Richard]

I first visited Walt Disney World in 2004. That don't make the place new, does it? I think it is wrong that they advertise an attraction that is going on three years old as new. Yes, it's their current showcase ride, but that doesn't make it new. You make some good points, but the point scott was getting at was that we're consistently seeing Movie World remove what truly separated them from Dreamworld and Sea World - behind-the-scenes "movie magic" attractions - to make way for "cheap thrills". I don't see any reason for this other than because it makes things cheaper. Herein lies the problem. When a new major attraction is built, they would typically expect and predict somewhere around a 5-20% increase in attendance as a direct result. With the current trend being to remove old and underperforming attractions and stick new ones in their place with the same existing infrastructure, we're seeing this 5-20% increase on the exact same footpaths that were there five years ago, the same food outlets and amenities that were there 14 years ago and, most importantly, in the queues of the exact same number of attractions that were there 14 years ago. The last new attraction that didn't come at the cost of another was Wild Wild West. In all situations I certainly prefer what has been added to what it replaced, but I would far prefer to have both. At Dreamworld you've got the headline attractions, but you also have a whole heap of smaller rides and flat rides to keep you occupied. Movie World has without a doubt (to me) the best collection of headline attractions in this country, but there's nothing to support that. You have three hour-long queues, and that's it. Where's the 25 minute queues? Where are the ten minute queues? They've all been removed to make way for these hour-longs. These smaller attractions are what fills a day and makes a park "complete", not a small handful of "blow-you-away" attractions - these only make a park quality. Warner Bros. Movie World is a great park. If it weren't for Sea World, I would say it is our best park. What I'm getting at is that being good or being great etc., doesn't necessarily add up to being complete. Take Disneyland or any of the Magic Kingdoms. They have some of the most amazing rides out there, but then on top of this, they have smaller, simpler rides that don't get the queues, but they really are what make these parks so good.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Excellent points Rich, but other parks who have the smaller, simpler rides, who do not fly the Disney Flag, seem to have capacity issues when they get a reasonably large crowd. Both Dreamworld and Wonderland suffered this problem on their showcase attractions when any load was placed on the infrastructure. I agree that it is a pity Movie World is removing old attractions at the cost of adding new ones, but given that Movie World's capacity as it stands at the moment is light years ahead of, say, dreamworld for example. Yes they're packing in the 5-20% increase in crowds on the same footpaths they had 5 years ago, but the point is, the park was designed with that in mind. Movie World's only obvious choke point is the entry way to lethal weapon, however, since that leads to only one ride, it could be considered more of an extended queue than a transitway. all of the main arterial paths in Movie World are wide. look at the walkway down Wild West. From the Hogwart's Express all the way to the start of the queue, its a wide open walkway, a few amenities, shopfronts etc, but overall, a huge pathway. Dreamworld chopped up some of it's path to put Claw in. they reduced the width of the path to fit the ride in, and that is now a heavy chokepoint (im talking 3 days after the ride opened. the crowds were made up of people heading into Ocean Parade, people heading out, AND people queueing for the claw. thats 3 different groups going in three different directions on a path that I'm pretty sure was only about 3 metres wide MAX. Personally, I would like to see Movie world expand out, build their ride on virgin land, and build a themed world around it. But with 12 Million to spend, I'd prefer they spend it on the ride itself, and put it into existing infrastructure to save time and money, rather than spend half of their funds on small issues such landscaping and set design of a new themed land to fit in a lower valued and lower experienced coaster. i'm all for the quality over quantity. at present, with 2 or 3 rides on my favourites, I can make a day of Movie World. Not 2, but 1. Dreamworld, if i were to see and do everything would take me 2 to 3, but probably closer to 3 days. others could probably do it faster, but I am taking the same approach to both parks, in my own style. I have been to dreamworld 3 times in my life. I am yet to see the tiger island show, see captain sturt in any form of working order, visit blue lagoon, or ride Cyclone more than once in a single day. i've ridden thunder river once, and the mine train once. I have ridden ONE flat ride, other than Wipeout and Claw, and all the others (reptar, wipeout, ToT, GD,) I have been on once per visit to the park. I could never do dreamworld in one day and I am not prepared to spend money on another ticket in the same week to visit it again. Movie world balances it's capacity very wisely IMO. they balance their shows, attractions etc, so that, with a little forethought prior to 10am, you can see all the shows you want to, ride all the rides you want to at least once, and still have time for lunch, shopping, and drying off after wild west. I think movie magic was the last legacy to go. all they have left now is the cream of the crop. while most people would argue over Batman, I still think it gives a lot to the park experience for those who have never been on it, and is invaluable. Scooby, Wild West, Road Runner Roller Coaster, Lethal, Tunes river ride, and the small kiddie flats they have are the foundations to build from. Now that movie magic is gone, the base attractions in the park will remain for quite a while yet, and movie world will use it's next budget allocation to develop new attractions, and new themed areas with which to house them. Superman is just the beginning.

[Adam]

I agree with you Richard. But I think their main problem is usable space. It would be great Alex, if they could build a new themed area, but I'm not sure if they have the space.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I agree with you Richard. But I think their main problem is usable space. It would be great Alex, if they could build a new themed area, but I'm not sure if they have the space.

Attached are two images. the first is Movie World, the Second is Dreamworld. The big Yellow area with a Camera on it represents the land held by each park, according to UBD maps. Now the Movie World land area does include WetNWild, but I think it is safe to say that they have enough land to build numerous themed lands. Dreamworld on the other hand....?

[joz]

I think the key here is "usable land". The park is boxed in by the studios, and there is not a great deal of space left to play with.

[scott]

As Joz said,the majority of land(or alot of it anyway)at Movieworld is taken up by studios.However there is still more than enough land for a new themed area or rides.As for "chokepoints" the only one of those at MW is when there is a parade on,and it can get very frustrating for people who don't want to see the parade but just want to get across to the other side of the street.MW isn't ignorant like DW when it comes to capacity and have dealt with and are able to deal with crowds very well.Also,when I said before that Movieworld was getting rid of their only attraction to do with movies I was talking about things like tram tours,special effects shows and other behind the scenes things,as Richard said.Rides like Lethal Weapon,Scooby Doo,and Wid West aren't about movies,there simply themed to them.They are major thrill rides,not studio tours.Go to Disney Studios and you'll find about five different shows like these.And just because somepeople only go there 3 or 4 timesa yeardoes not make it new.I went to MW once last year and do not find it new.

[Adam]

I agree Scott but its still a Movie themed experience.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

ok ok Rich... Alex did bad. did you have to delete the whole post? I had meaningful stuff in there in reply to Kenny.... and now i can't remember it! Can i have that part of it back.... please?

[Rocky]

offtopic: Why doesn't DW buy land in the east of the park?

[T-bone]

Because they don't feel Like it. How about use their remaining land, and when they run out of room, and the park is great, then i call for an expansion.

[scott]

I have no idea why people keep worrying about space at DW.It's in the middle of the bush!

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

scott, if you have a look at the proposed plans for the coomera shopping and residential districts that will be built around the dreamworld property, and the fact that part of the dreamworld property will be used in the project... I dont dispute dreamworld has some land out there, but to clear it and make it fit for park use, they need drainage and water flow, sewerage, they might also need gas, they need to run electricity, and they also need to be able to put in attractions to fill the land as well...... its a lot more than a couple million for a single flat... thats a lot of development... landscaping, building construction, theming... its a lot... Macquarie would need a huge injection into the park to be able to expand on this land, which is one of the main reasons why wonderland never expanded beyond its original lands.

[Adam]

...take a look at the list of attractions on the Movieworld website and you'll see that apparently SDSC is still a new ride,even though it's been open for three years.

An update to this thread; Movie World have finally removed the "new" labels from both the Scooby Doo ride and The Matrix Exhibit on their website. Just thought I’d let you all know

[Slick]

Ugh, i can't believe i'm posting this, but hey, i've got to help you guys out regardless. The land you see on the map is land currently used by Dreamworld's current theme park space. Like who-ever said it earlier, the reason Movie world's land is used up by studios and stuff, hence the land appearing on the map is alot bigger. I thought i'd give you this little attachment showing approximately how much land Dreamworld in total owns and how much they can and will use. Slick is watching.

[Richard]

Thanks for re-answering a question that was answered three weeks ago. It's just what we needed. In an attempt to steer this back more towards what we should be talking about, here's a rundown of what's going on at the park as of late. In the meantime, the Movie Magic Special Effects Show has closed and signage has been quietly removed. Looney Tunes Musical Revue has closed permanently as of Friday, and we should start to see things move forward in coming weeks and months. Contrary to popular (or unpopular, as it were) belief, there is no track on site - neither in publicly viewable areas nor in the back-of-house areas. Track won't be delivered until groundwork is well underway.

[Ian]

As rich said track is not on site you need to remove stuff before adding stuff. as for space Disneyland isnt that huge but they use there space so well that when your inside the park it seems huge.

[scott]

Your right,Disney feels huge simply because they do areas so well.What I really admire Disney for is their ability to make things seem bigger then they are(eg. Big Thunder Mountain).

[Slick]

Hey Richard, just ease up, I was simply clarifying for those who wanted to know, so rather than trying to make yourself big, just drop it. Ahem, Disneyland was great in my eyes as not only were they big but it never fealt "open" like Dreamworld does at certain places. It always seemed to me something close by, but it was just really comfortable. But see, that was when I went down there when I was nine, so my memory's slightly faded.

[Gazza]

Im just wondering, is there enough room around where Batman is for a couple of flat rides? They could coencide with the new batman movie and could be themed to a few other batman Characters, Mr Freeze or Poison Ivy for example. These would give the park its "20 minute queues" and help fill peoples days. A new Gotham city area would also be created with this. And because its close to the front of the park, the rides would have a high visual impact facing out towards the road.

[Adam]

Rabid, do you know when the expected completion date of this coaster is supposed to be? Some people are saying September, some October and some say Christmas Holidays.

[Gazza]

According to RCDB, its opening in october. I might hold off a bit, maybe till november or at the very start of the holidays while the primary schools and 7-10 of secondary schools are still on holidays to avoid any teething problems that come with new rides.

[scott]

I hope it isn't opening in October because I'll be at Heron Island then. Also Gazza,what sort of flat rides would you have in?

[Gazza]

I was thinking along the lines of a Huss Jump2 http://www.hussrides.com/33GiantJump2.htm or A Huss Booster http://www.hussrides.com/33GiantJump2.htm or a Modial TopScan http://www.mondialrides.com/txt/topscan/index.html or a Chance Double Inverter http://www.rides.com/inverter_dbhome.html A couple of these rides together would be cool, just theme them up nicely and it should be cool. But please, no Mr Freeze Wave swingers: http://www.coasterforce.com/europe/warner_...drid/freeze.php Another ride that could be put in the park somwhere could be a Stunt Man themed launched freefall, again, this ride would give short lines, but it could still have a nice pre show telling you that you had been hired by warner bros to be a stunt doulble, but you have to pass a screen test to see if you are up to the job, which is where the launched freefall part comes in. This ride overcomes MWs space issues since freefall rides take only small amounts of space. And Scott, why wouldnt you want the ride opening in October, the sooner it opens the better (for the rest of us at least), and if you are away then, you could just go after you come back and enjoy shorter lines and less breakdowns.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

with the exception of LT Village, how many flat rides does WBMW have? Precisely. I think its a good idea, but outdoor flat rides ruin the facade that MW is trying to build... every ride they have is enclosed in some manner, with the exception of the reasonably well themed coasters lethal and road runner. nothing else is outdoors...