"Disney standard" theming

[Adam]

changed/refreshed every two years

If they were to change the pre-show they would need to change the ride as the pre-show is usually linked directly to the ride.

[Ian]

In no way does Bermuda live upto Prates of the Carribean,the sfx in Bermuda are crappy and dated.

I forgot about pirates I was comparing more to its a small world when I wrote that. But IMO of traveling to alot of parks worldwide I think Burmuda inside parts like the water rushing in are world class.

[Adam]

Burmuda inside parts like the water rushing in are world class.

Yea, the fire and the flooding scenes have great special effects. Just a question about prirates, has it been updated since it was first installed? (e.g. a major upgrade)

[bigglesworth003]

Pirates is constantley refurb, but not really had any major upgrades purley because it doesnt need it. I mean the boats have been changed and the outdoor queue entrance has changed. The Auctioneer AA(audio animatronic) is the most sophisticated and updated AA in the world. everytime walt disney imagineering (WDI) develop a new AA process/system they test it out on the auctioneer at disneyland. Other changes happened in the 90's because of P.C. a scene where piarates are chasing women is changed to them chasing food. (can only hope it gets changedback like the guns came back to the jungle cruise) Pirates is the ULTIMATE family dark/themed ride it is the benchmark for all other boat dark rides around. A true classic that has stood the test of time. It fully immusres youin the story and takes you away. on jimhillmedia.com there is a story about therumor of putting in a nighttime changeover in pirates interesting read.

[joz]

Just on that, what is the story of pirates? BTW, Giant Drops Pre-show was something along the lines of this, (and was givin to guests while in the room with the computer stuff on their left): "This is an emergency situation, the oil rig is about to explode! Please evacuate through the doors on my right NOW! Evacuate! Evacuate, EV - AC - YOU - EIGHT!" IMHO, it doesn't get much more classy then that

[ads086]

That sounds very similar to the pre-show for Space Probe. In my opinion, an evacuation style theme for a ride would only be good if it was a tower that used compressed air to force the gondola up the tower, rather than one where you were slowly hoisted up. I think the thing that sets disney apart from everyone else is that their theming matches the story they are trying to tell. Also, a lot of disney stories are told to children while they're growing up, so when they get to the park they know some of the stories already I think the biggest thing holding other parks back from achieving Disney level is funds. If parks had a larger budget to spend purely on theming and atmosphere, they could achieve close to Disney standards And one final thing, and this is only my opinion, so if you dont agree, please dont take offence. It has been said that no park will ever match Disney, and that Disney is above every other competitor. I personally think this is because of the perception that Disney is better than others. Whilst this may be true at the moment, if we maintain that perspective then we dont objectively judge a park against Disney because we have this pre-conception that Disney must be better. So Disney is better, at the moment, but it may not always be. Again, only my opinion, if you disagree Im sure your gonna say something, but please dont take offence as there was none intended -Adam

[Adam]

Adam, im loving your name. Its awesome mate.

It has been said that no park will ever match Disney, and that Disney is above every other competitor.

Although I disagree entirely with it, it's an interesting statement. If no park will ever match Disney, then why are they in business? To be the second best park in the world?

I think the biggest thing holding other parks back from achieving Disney level is funds.

Yea, exactly! Disney are spending 100 million on Expedition Everest, how can you possibly capitalize from that? Can anyone, who has experience in the field, please tell me why Disney are spending $87 million more than what was spent on Scooby Doo? Is it a bigger track (it's using Vekoma's new ride system)? A bigger building (I'm not sure how big the mountain is going to be)? Thanks in advance.

[Richard]

ads086, I'm curious to know if you've been to any Disney parks around the world. If there's a perception (among enthusiasts or otherwise) that Disney parks are better, it's because for 50 years they well and truly have been. I think that though financial reasons are the most prominent reasons for no other parks attaining the "Disney level", there are many more, which bubble down to Walt Disney's own quest for perfection, an attitude that is thankfully carried on (as best it can be) by Imagineering, a department at Disney consisting of true leaders of their respective industries who bring things to life. Disney is Disney. That's really all there is to say. I have a true love for their parks, because they are as close to perfect as theme parks come. I don't expect Warner Bros. Movie World, Universal Studios or any other park to be as good. That's not to say I don't love these parks, but there is no use comparing parks which at the end of the day are targeted at different people, and trying to be their own thing.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

To touch on what Richard has said and to answer another question as well, Other parks out there are not as good as Disney, and yet they ARE still in business - why? several reasons: 1) Disney cannot have a park in every state and territory of every country in the world. Its just not possible. Disney spends millions and millions on their parks are their rides. it would cost them a fortune to do, and the end result would be a loss in traffic to each park - because the travellers from interstate and international would just go to their own park. How many people would go to Disneyland, if we had a Disneyland in Australia? 2) Disney's culture is of "the most Wonderful Place on Earth". Its a kids fantasyland, fairy tales coming to life right in front of your eyes. Six Flags and Paramount and Universal and all the rest are there because they are delivering something that Disney doesn't deliver in its classic theme parks - whirling twirling spinning spewing duck and dive full-speed top fuelling Adrenalin Rush. Disney INVENTED the theme park. Until Disney came along, they were AMUSEMENT parks. rides with simple names, like "the big dipper" and "ferris wheel" and "giant drop". A Theme Park creates an illusion. its no longer the "giant drop" but the "Space Probe". It asks you to believe that this freefall tower, like every other freefall tower out there, is ACTUALLY an earth station transmitterreceiver for Ether Transmissions received from Deep Space. It then takes you inside, where a Seven.Net Reporter - Adam Walters reports to Seven.Net News Reader Ann Sanders that the transmission which caused the infiltration was an alien virus like organism of unknown origin... and so on and so on. Theme Parks are about taking an ordinary ride, like a boat flume, a wild mouse coaster, or freefaller, and creating a story, a look and a feel that gives a person the opportunity to suspend reality, and believe that this freefall tower is an inter-world probe. that this flume is a cruise boat on the hunt for bugs bunny, and that this wild mouse is in fact a space vehicle about to be launched from a space station and into the stars. Disney has 50 years experience over most other operators who wish to set out to copy their model. But like Richard said before - the one difference between a Warner Bros, a Universal, and a DISNEY attraction (besides money) is the Imagineers. I would like to see Warner Village build a ride, any ride (indoors) that they like, give the same ride and budget to a team of imagineers, and see the difference in the two. but thats in a dream world... oh well.

[Adam]

Movie World is Movie World. That's really all there is to say. Richard, I have to say I agree, Disney has been the best park in the last 50 years. But whats to say another park can't overtake that status? I couldn't disagree more with a statement like "no park will ever match Disney". And Alex, the answers you gave are missing the point entirely. (I am not just saying this because of what happened earlier with the whole argument about screens - I do respect what you have to say). Usually businesses are in business to make a profit. This profit can be maximized if you’re the best. There could be ten shops on the same street as you that do exactly what you do, but everyone comes to you, because you’re simply the best, better than anyone. Imagineers are only people with a vision. That same vision can be shared by people outside the Disney network.

[carolinebee]

At the risk of being flamed, seriously flamed... I would like to express my own opinion on this Disney thing, I suppose to some extent in support of those who are claiming we have some "Disney-standard theming" here in Australia. I went to Disneyland Paris last year and I was generally unimpressed. It was the only theme park we went to on ouir travels that we (kids age 11 and 14 and myself) were pretty much indifferent about. At the risk of sounding like I'm whinging (which I suppose I am), I'll now launch into a diatribe of explanation as to why this was so.... While typing this I have had to refer to the website as the majority of the rides were pretty much unmemorable. The customer service was pretty ordinary, I have never been treated in an Australian theme park with the indifference that we got there. For example, most of the staff spoke only a nominal amount of English, some tried hard to help and be understood, some didn't. The intro to Honey I shrank the Audience" was in French, no explanation on how to use the headphones so I missed 5 minutes while sorting out all 3 of us. The French soundtrack was so loud we could hardly hear our english sountrack. Theming: even the 11yo said it was "gay", it was really silly but I thought it was good 3D. I don't think the 360 degree theatre had English in the headphones, though we wasted another 5 minutes trying to work out if it did. Good movie though, despite being in French. Theming: what theming? Star Tours was OK, much like Batman we thought. Space Mountain was OK, but we found it rough and also were disappointed that no-one would tell us what the ride was like and 11yo hated it as I'd have predicted if anyone had told us it had so many inversions and Gs. Theming: don't really remember. Pirates of the Caribbean was OK but in our opinion not as interesting a ride as Bermuda Triangle (though those aliens are pretty dated and lame). We're no experts on animatronics, though, just 3 ordinary people who like rides (and we don't usually do 6 theme parks a year, either, usually just one). Orbitron is low-themed flat ride, thumbs up. Peter Pan was a very cute family suspended ride with nice effects but nothing extraordinary, don't think there was a story apart from flying. There were LOTS of rides aimed only at the littlies which we resorted to when we ran out of biggies rides and had done Big Th Mtn 5 or 6 times. Theming on these was mild to average, nothing worth mentioning. Big Thunder Mtn was similar in theming to Dreamworld's Eureka Mine but a much better coaster. Theming of all the above rides was, IN MY OPINION, no better than a similar selection in Australia. However the following few stand out: Nautilus was an excellent walk-through, awesome squid. Better than Harry Potter. Phantom Manor was of exceptional standard and one of the few rides I thought was themed really well, though we were told off for trying to open the door as no signs said "wait here" and we were really confused as to where the ride was. Robinsons House was very good, theming simple but top notch. Indiana Jones- disappointing (see my previous post) though not a bad ride and the set is very visually effective. As I've previously said, I'm not really one for theming, but I really can't see how you can say that the theming if Disneyland overall is better than Movieworld or DW. My experience is tainted by poor customer service, but trying to be objective, I still fail to see a vast deiiference except in the few cases mentioned. Maybe Disneyland Paris is letting the Disney side down? At least I can now say I've been, and riding Dumbo and the teacups (fulfilling a lifetime dream) was worth the visit, as was the multiple rides on Big Thunder Mountain (the best ride by far at DL Paris). OK, now I brace myself for the onslaught...

[scott]

I am amazed that you found Disney to be this way.I went to Disneyland Paris and was simply amazed.Every single thing placed in the exact right spot,every little detai done magnificantly.First of all,Space Mountain has 2 inversions.The theming is excellent,and it was a very smooth ride.You must have gone there a while ago because it was excellent when we went.Pirates is much better then Bermuda....the amount of anamatronics in there is amazing.How many other rides do you come across have a whole movie made out of them?The reason for kiddie rides is obviously beacuse it's a family park....I could go on and on....also alex,I can't agree morewith what you said about Disney making rides in that way.

[bigglesworth003]

1)If no park will ever match Disney, then why are they in business? To be the second best park in the world? 2)Yea, exactly! Disney are spending 100 million on Expedition Everest, how can you possibly capitalize from that? 3)Can anyone, who has experience in the field, please tell me why Disney are spending $87 million more than what was spent on Scooby Doo? 4)Is it a bigger track (it's using Vekoma's new ride system)? A bigger building (I'm not sure how big the mountain is going to be)? Thanks in advance.

ok just added numbers to oyu post to awnser. 1. Basically to make money, if you look at the top 10 parks in the world 8 of them are disney parks, and the first non-disneypark is no.6 uinversal studios japan, most parks know they wont beat disney but its a buisness they all are there to make money (and do!) source:Amusement Business and Economic Research Associates (post showing the top 10 from AB over at mouseinfo.com posted by darkbeer- http://www.miboards.com/forums/showpost.ph...41&postcount=32) 2. Easily! I'm a sharholder in Disney and just got the 2004 annual report Disney parks and Resort divison made in revenue last year 7.8 BILLION largest percentage of that was was from WDW, so they can easily captilize from building a $100million dollar attraction that will just bring in more deep pocketed tourists to WDW. Disney always spends major bucks on attractions Mission Space cost a cool $500 Million! and they always turn a massive profit. i cant think of a ride added to a disney park that cost less than $20million (pooh at disneyland cost $40million and if youve ridden it youd wonder where the hell the money went.) (barr the carney rides in DCA inparidise peir section) 3. ok i peronally dont have experience but my uncle works for disney parks and resorts in the head offices in burbank and travels to them all frequently (currently in hong kong at the site of the new disneyland) Basically every disney park gets a budget for these things goes into approval in burbank, animal kingdom needs everest it is lacking rides and this is on a way to help it come a full day park. and simply they can spend this kind of money cause the money will come back from guests this is a park that gets 7.5 million + guests a year. Simply put it makes more money than WB and this is an investment they will see returned with in 1-2years. and the detail in this ride and effects is goign to be amazing! Thats were the money is going, into track, structure, themeing, landscape effects etc etc 4. Expedition Everest the track is alot longer than scooby, and isnt a building its in a man made mountain with show scenes inside it (kinda like the matterhorn but on a much larger scale! huge it will be), and the mountain at its peak will be 199ft (200ft + structurs must have airplane warning lights on them thats why disneyin florida wont build ride stuctures higer than199ft, tower of terror is 199ft in florida too.) and to agree with others, yes its the imagineers that make it happen(the pure themeing and story etc) they are the best in the field wth the right budget they can make the most amazing attractions there are. hope i helped

[Richard]

Imagineers are only people with a vision. That same vision can be shared by people outside the Disney network.

The vision can indeed be shared, but I don't believe it can be fostered like it is at Disney. I couldn't and wouldn't say that Disney will forever be the best, because who knows what the future holds. Disney know that a $10 or $20 million ride, however good it might be, will never cut it for their parks. They know that their guests go to Disney to be amazed and to get top class services and experiences. So long as Disney continues this way (which they will), I don't see it changing.

[Adam]

This has become a very interesting discussion for the future of Australian parks. I am going to a few Disney parks at the end of this year or next year, will be interesting to see what I think after that (I have been to Disneyland but it was ages ago).

Disney INVENTED the theme park

Bill Gates did not invent the concept of computer software… Vekoma did not invent the roller coaster… …yet they are both leaders in their field.

So long as Disney continues this way (which they will), I don't see it changing.

The question is not whether Disney continues to do what they do; it’s whether Australian parks will continue to grow and strive to reach world-class expectations. I believe it's possible.

[Gazza]

The reason why disney can do it is because of their large visitation rates and because of the larger financial backing that they will risk, Australian parks can be nice, but i dont think the whole park could be as good as disney, maybe an indivdual ride. Also, with the current lot of parks we have, i dont think they would have the drive to, if they can still make lots of money by operating a park marred by many issues, then why bother improving. I would love to see a disney type park here, but i dont know if it will happen.

[Richard]

The sort of capital expenditure required to reach these same levels as Disney would be unattainable any time in the forseeable future. Disney's spending on a single E-ticket typically tops what would have been spent on Warner Bros. Movie World ever. The top Disney parks get 10-15 times the attendance our parks do, so it is natural that they can spend 10-15 times what our parks do on attractions. Australia simply doesn't have the population that could ever make Disney-scale investments feasible. To put it another way, the sum annual attendance at ALL Australian parks would not even reach the annual attendance of the underperforming Disney's California Adventure, a USD$1.5 billion investment I believe for the most part, the Gold Coast parks are world-class, or at least strive to be, but that's not what we're talking about here. The issue here is whether Disney levels of immersion and theming can ever be attained.

[scott]

In conclusion I don't think it can be attained.Rides can have as much theming as Disney but Disney just didit so dam well....there'sjust something about there parks that make them the best.I think it's a bit hard to say just what.

[Gazza]

It is entirely possible to beat disney quality, the only thing stopping people is money, end of story.

[Adam]

there'sjust something about there parks that make them the best.I think it's a bit hard to say just what.

A big budget?

Disney's spending on a single E-ticket typically tops what would have been spent on Warner Bros. Movie World ever.

Whats an E-ticket?

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

A big budget?

No. A big imagination. As Scott said, its possible for another park to have just as much theming, but its the imagination that goes into a Disney park that sets it apart from the rest - hence - as we keep coming back to it - the IMAGINEERS

[Gazza]

IMO its money, i bet plenty of parks have great ideas, but they can never try them because of financial limitations, so they go unseen. If some other company set up in a financially viable area and had huge disney size budgets, then they could try some really major stuff, and would be able to foster their own group of imagineers to rival disney. But i dont see that happening anytime soonn.

[scott]

Money is definitely a limitation but I think there's more to it.

[Adam]

No. A big imagination. As Scott said, its possible for another park to have just as much theming, but its the imagination that goes into a Disney park that sets it apart from the rest - hence - as we keep coming back to it - the IMAGINEERS

Imagination is everywhere. Do you seriously think that the Disney Network are the only group of people in the world with an imagination and the abilty to dream? The only thing that turns imagination into reality is money. This is what sets Disney apart. But that’s not to say it can't be replicated on a smaller scale in Australian parks.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Do you seriously think that the Disney Network are the only group of people in the world with an imagination and the abilty to dream?

Well, having a look at theming on attractions such as Tower of Terror, Giant Drop and the like, yes, its quite possible that Disney are the only group of people in the world with an imagination and the ability to dream.

The only thing that turns imagination into reality is money.

Wrong again, will power and drive is just as important as money.

But that’s not to say it can't be replicated on a smaller scale in Australian parks.

Actually... yes it is. As numerous EXPERTS unlike yourself have stated on this forum, it will be a long time before anything in Australia can come close to Disney Standards. Scooby is admittedly the closest yet, but is somewhere on the universal level, and thats just a single attraction, not a whole park...