The validity of Google reviews

[Guest 239]

@jozWhat? I'm not trying to have a go at you mate, I'm genuinely curious on your thoughts. I showed the wait times because I thought people would be interested, not to make you look bad, and show that perhaps there is some truth behind somebody only being able to get three things done in a day. This is one day of data where I purposefully chose the worst case. Other days have been a lot quieter and would be a lot easier to get more things done.  The reason I asked about capacity is because you engaged with my comment about capacity, so I assumed thats what you wanted to discuss. 

Again, not trying to have a go at you. If you're ever confused about my tone you're more than welcome to ask me what I'm trying to express. 

[Spotty]

3 hours ago, joz said:

Normally the parks in Australia will rotate staff between positions. Don't know how they do it these days but it used to be start in one position, have a break, go back somewhere different, have another break, go back to a third position. The only ones where it's the same ride all are rides that only have one or two positions. These days even those rides have a couple of staff on so it's not as bad as the very old days of being on one ride by yourself from 10 till 5.

I do not miss the xmas holidays... 8:45am - 6:15pm Batwing... -shudders- honestly the absolute worst shift in the whole operations team. AFAIK for the major rides with multiple positions they rotate much the same as they did when I was there. You do still have some good staff that will actually try and pump through the crowds (as much as the over-the-top procedures allow them to). But most of those staff have sadly come and gone over the years.

[joz]

Yeah, you're doing it again man, I didn't say you were having a go at me. I also wasn't in this conversation until after you posted full wait times, and last time I checked, I'm not a theme park. So between these two points I'm not sure how you posting them would make me look bad.

 

I didn't see your median time explanation. The post I was responding to, was Dean specifically, who after smashing his toy fire engines together, suggested that your data proves that you need to do planning to get on more than 3 rides in a day. Using your data, I demonstrated that to be totally untrue. Like not only did I not make an optimised plan, I came up with the worst strategy I could, on a day which turns out was the worst day data was available for, and it's still nonsense. Incidentally, it's interesting that rather than a typical day, you posted the worst day you had data for. I was responding as if those numbers were typical of this holiday period. Good to know a typical day is actually better than that! 

 

Had I read median queue theory, I might have said that guests don't experience median wait times, they go from one ride to another, so I think drawing conclusions from that sort of statistic is shaky. For what it's worth my method results in a lower number of total rides (which correct me if I'm wrong, is more in line with the points you were trying to make?). It's like trying to make a conclusion based off of the fact that 7,000 people went to the park, and only 2,500 got to ride Rivals. On the face of it that's bad, but it makes no accounting of how many people went through the gates who REALLY wanted to go on Rivals as like their number one thing. You've also got 8.6 hours of queueing, including JDS. How many people want to go on Rivals AND JDS? In the history of the park, I'm pretty sure the answer is 1, and she wasn't there on Monday. The old saying of lies, damned lies, and statistics is relevant. To be clear, I absolutely don't think you're lying, I just respectfully don't think there are any meaningful conclusions to be reached from the way those stats are presented. You can disagree, and that's fine too.

 

The only thing I can really suggest is perhaps re-read my posts with the following knowledge; the time I quoted you, was the first time in this topic I was engaging with you. When I was making the worst day possible, I wasn't responding to you, nor had I read the median wait time theory nor was I calling it shit. I don't know if thinking I was doing that is why you tried to strawman me, but it would make sense. I'm not claiming to be a saint either, I'm sure I've done it to without even meaning to.

Edited January 25, 2023 by joz

[Cactus_Matt]

I've read this thread twice and I still have no idea what you lot are talking about, but then again I am very drunk lol

[Dean Barnett]

This got poo-poo'd before.. but they could just like extend the hours during peak summer. Wouldn't hurt to operate to 8-9pm.

[Ashley Jeffery]

11 hours ago, rappa said:

I’m just here to say this, and it’s absolutely true so to hell with anyone that wants to criticize my comment. 
 

But sadly, by and large, Australian workers at the age and level of your average ride attendant are lazy and unmotivated. Does that mean the parks get a free pass? Of course not, but as pointed out, when it’s home time they will work harder to get out of there. 
As long as that is the pool for staffing them our parks will suck at operations compared to overseas. 
 

You can see this easily in hospitality, as it’s genuinely the same pool. With the absence of European and north American working holiday tourists over Covid staff in hospitality here sucked!! It’s slowly getting better. 
But theme parks don’t employ working tourists, so you will always have these feet dragging staff. 
That really is a big part of the problem, it’s largely generational and somewhat uniquely australian in nature. 

Its well known Aussies don't like work.

[Dean Barnett]

Luna Park Sydney staff seem to be much more efficient than all of the GC parks combined

[ShakeShack]

12 hours ago, rappa said:

I’m just here to say this, and it’s absolutely true so to hell with anyone that wants to criticize my comment. 
 

But sadly, by and large, Australian workers at the age and level of your average ride attendant are lazy and unmotivated. Does that mean the parks get a free pass? Of course not, but as pointed out, when it’s home time they will work harder to get out of there. 
As long as that is the pool for staffing them our parks will suck at operations compared to overseas. 
 

You can see this easily in hospitality, as it’s genuinely the same pool. With the absence of European and north American working holiday tourists over Covid staff in hospitality here sucked!! It’s slowly getting better. 
But theme parks don’t employ working tourists, so you will always have these feet dragging staff. 
That really is a big part of the problem, it’s largely generational and somewhat uniquely australian in nature. 

I don't think that's very fair, and extremely generalised.

At the end of the day, it's up to the operator, the managers, and the supervisors to create and maintain a culture of what is and isn't acceptable. The parks should be looking at these numbers, and trying to resolve them any way they can. They have been absolutely smashed these holidays by reviews and the media, yet no action has been taken as of yet.

Shit rolls down hill, the culture within our parks, and specifically within VRTP is woeful at best. Sure there is a small percentage of staff who are there cashing their cheques and going home, but to shoehorn the rest into that category is a bit rich.

Changes need to be made at the top, expectations need to be set, and actions need to be taken. By far the laziest staff, are those at the top.

[rappa]

22 minutes ago, ShakeShack said:

By far the laziest staff, are those at the top.

What a stupid thing to say. If it’s one thing Aussies are better at than being slackers it’s tall poppy syndrome. 
 

23 minutes ago, ShakeShack said:

extremely generalised.

That’s kind if the point of a general statement. The fact it’s possible to generalise is because something is common. 
 

25 minutes ago, ShakeShack said:

They have been absolutely smashed

Yes they have been smashed. They have been insanely busy, which is a good thing. More people = more people to make up 3 ride google reviews and general have a piss and moan online because they are annoyed 7999 other people also wanted to theme park that day. 
 

The repeat visitation is the metric, not google. One of the biggest complaints about Movie World is that it is so much busier than it’s competitor… 

[ShakeShack]

25 minutes ago, rappa said:

If it’s one thing Aussies are better at than being slackers it’s tall poppy syndrome. 

What a stupid thing to say.

It's evident that SOME of the leaders aren't driven by anything besides notoriety. You and I both know the culture within the company is shocking in majority of the business areas. Shit morale leads to poor performance, it's as simple as that.

There is not an inch of tall poppy syndrome within my reply or original opinions. If the heads of the business, and the managers on the ground aren't prepared to get their boots dirty, make a change and display expectations, why then should the "lazy and unmotivated" ops care?

As recent as last month I witnessed a leader ripping into his staff, in front of a large group of GP, criticising their work, and reprimanding them, because they were struggling to wrap their head around an outlets new POS system, a system that they had no prior training in. Do you understand what I am saying here?

 

25 minutes ago, rappa said:

Yes they have been smashed. They have been insanely busy, which is a good thing. More people = more people to make up 3 ride google reviews and general have a piss and moan online because they are annoyed 7999 other people also wanted to theme park that day. 

That's not the point of discussion though. The fact of the matter is, these attractions are putting through a 

Movie Worlds pax capacity hasn't increased, yet their attractions line up has. We weren't seeing this type of attraction wait times pre covid, yet they were still doing record crowds. This comes down to poor operations, running attractions at a 3rd of their possible throughput. I will say it again, clear and concise expectations need to be set, otherwise it will be the same shit.

A theme park being full to the point that you're getting on 2 attractions in a day, is the result of poor planing, design and operations. It's as simple as that.

You do understand people can have a terrible day, deciding to never visit again, without going and leaving a review online. People vote with their wallets, not their Google reviews....

Edited January 26, 2023 by ShakeShack
Spelling

[rappa]

3 minutes ago, ShakeShack said:

People vote with their wallets, not their Google reviews....

Exactly. 

[ShakeShack]

1 minute ago, rappa said:

Exactly. 

Obviously you agree with everything else I've written here, so that's great.

 

5 minutes ago, ShakeShack said:

People vote with their wallets, not their Google reviews....

In which, they visited over the school holidays, realised the place was packed and staff couldn't keep up. Decide to skip that property in the future.

[joz]

5 minutes ago, ShakeShack said:

A theme park being full to the point that you're getting on 2 attractions in a day

Two? You're talking shit mate.

[rappa]

Just now, ShakeShack said:

Obviously you agree with everything else I've written here, so that's great.

 

In which, they visited over the school holidays, realised the place was packed and staff couldn't keep up. Decide to skip that property in the future.

You’re telling some great stories but that doesn’t make any of them reality. 

[ShakeShack]

1 minute ago, joz said:

Two? You're talking shit mate.

Sorry, I fell into the trap of generalising...

 

Just now, rappa said:

You’re telling some great stories but that doesn’t make any of them reality. 

I'd love to know what parts are "great stories"... Or which part of my statements are not realistic, or based off some form of reality.

[joz]

Just now, ShakeShack said:

Sorry, I fell into the trap of generalising...

You fell into the trap of talking nonsense. Do better.

[rappa]

I will never understand why people who so consistently share their seeming hatred about parks and the people who run them spend so much time visiting them 🤷‍♂️ 

[ShakeShack]

1 minute ago, joz said:

You fell into the trap of talking nonsense. Do better.

38 minutes ago, rappa said:

The fact it’s possible to generalise is because something is common. 

 

The white knights are out in force today.... I struggle to comprehend how you expect discussions to take place, when the second you opinion isn't reciprocated by another party, you turn to attacks and belittlement.

 

Just now, rappa said:

I will never understand why people who so consistently share their seeming hatred about parks and the people who run them spend so much time visiting them 🤷‍♂️ 

The same could be said by those who continue to work within the industry...

[joz]

3 minutes ago, ShakeShack said:

The white knights are out in force today.... I struggle to comprehend how you expect discussions to take place, when the second you opinion isn't reciprocated by another party, you turn to attacks and belittlement.

I'm sorry I called you out for making stuff up 😂

[Guest 239]

If this thread got any more dense it'd form a black hole. Nobody visiting these forums hates theme parks. Enthusiasts are known for being vocal and critical, but that is because they're deeply passionate about these places.

Going back to reviews, many are overinflated and opinion based, but they still matter. Study's have been done on them.

Quote

Online customer reviews are recognized as one of the most powerful types of UGC for understanding hidden consumer behavior in tourism and hospitality field (Xiang et al., 2015). Customer reviews represent the way visitors think, perceive, and describe tourism destinations and then share their own experiences.

Overall, the main park performance dimensions expressed in UGS reviews can be described as the “shared features” (e.g. waiting time, show/even/festival, food, and guest service), “unique features” (e.g. unique attractions and

experience, special service), “positive experiences” (e.g. core experiences, roller coaster, staff, and food) and “negative experiences” (e.g. waiting time, cost, and price). We suggest that if visitors give higher satisfaction rating and sentiment score to a theme park, they may have more positive experiences and less negative experiences, and the theme park may perform better in shared features and/or unique features compared to other theme parks.

Our results are consistent with Milman’s (2001) suggestion that theme parks need to provide new and diverse tourist experiences and offer convenient on-site services in order to survive. The literature shows that online tourist reviews genuinely reflect tourist experience and can help theme parks improve their products and services. Our results suggest that on the one hand, the share features among theme parks call for attentions on tourists’ needs in that details of experiencedesign and service may influence visitors’ ratings. On the other hand, uniqueness, which refers to unique attractions and services, is also crucial for the success of theme parks, in which creativity needs to be paid more attention. Theme parks should identify their weakness and improve experience quality and service in order to improve their capacity to stand out within the competitive industry.

The above study concluded that user reviews generally reflect the overall experience within a tourist attraction. But does that matter? Well there are study's on that as well.

Quote

More recently, Pan, Bahja, and Cobanoglu (2018) concluded that despite increasing level of crowds in popular theme parks, online reviews appeared to be the most influential factor to visit a theme park, followed narrowly by admission price, the type of theme park, distance from accommodation facilities, and appeal for children.

That refers to another study on the matter.

Quote

On a different perspective, researchers like Yoo and Gretzel (2008) have reported that 75% of travellers referred to online reviews when planning their trip. According to Pan et al. (2018), of the six main attributes that influence U.S theme park visitors, online reviews were the most influential factor. Results ranked price as the second-most influential factor and type of theme park as the third.

So from those three published research papers we can comfortably conclude that reviews reflect the general guest experience and are an important factor in determining future visitation from other guests. 

[rappa]

All largely irrelevant though in the unique case of the Gold Coast. 
 

The two single most determining factors for GC theme park visits are

1- Are we going to the Gold Coast?

2- Do we want to go to a theme park?

 

Australia does not have the luxury of the large number of options in say the USA. We can’t research reviews and choose a destination based on them. In most cases people are choosing a GC holiday and then there is one option. 
A choice between Village and Dreamworld will be largely price/offering driven, if in fact a choice at all, many visit both. 
 

As someone who reads reviews myself I will 100% agree they matter when people are making a choice, but as I said above, there isn’t really a choice to be made in the case of GC. 
Adding to that, I’m sure I’m not the only one who completely discounts all 1 star reviews of anything as nonsense and tend to look for the ‘truth in the middle’ in the 2-4 star range. 
 

In no way am I suggesting (nor have I once) that our parks are perfect and should get a free pass at any negatives. 
I’m just saying angry typing visitors on google posting a review whilst on their way home probably shouldn’t be the measure. 
 

Just the same as when someone says “we only got 2 rides all day” we shouldn’t be taking that to mean literally 2 rides. 

[WalleyWorld]

10 minutes ago, rappa said:

As someone who reads reviews myself I will 100% agree they matter when people are making a choice, but as I said above, there isn’t really a choice to be made in the case of GC. 

But there is a choice if you are from interstate (which makes up a large portion of themepark ticket sales on the coast). Would you agree with the following? A family in Melbourne consults current/recent Google/Trip Advisor reviews for the Gold Coast themeparks - from these reviews they decide not to go on a themepark holiday to the GC. But instead stay in Melbourne and do the themeparks and waterparks locally.

[ShakeShack]

17 minutes ago, rappa said:

All largely irrelevant though in the unique case of the Gold Coast. 
 

The two single most determining factors for GC theme park visits are

1- Are we going to the Gold Coast?

2- Do we want to go to a theme park?

 

Australia does not have the luxury of the large number of options in say the USA. We can’t research reviews and choose a destination based on them. In most cases people are choosing a GC holiday and then there is one option. 
A choice between Village and Dreamworld will be largely price/offering driven, if in fact a choice at all, many visit both. 
 

As someone who reads reviews myself I will 100% agree they matter when people are making a choice, but as I said above, there isn’t really a choice to be made in the case of GC. 
Adding to that, I’m sure I’m not the only one who completely discounts all 1 star reviews of anything as nonsense and tend to look for the ‘truth in the middle’ in the 2-4 star range. 
 

In no way am I suggesting (nor have I once) that our parks are perfect and should get a free pass at any negatives. 
I’m just saying angry typing visitors on google posting a review whilst on their way home probably shouldn’t be the measure. 
 

Just the same as when someone says “we only got 2 rides all day” we shouldn’t be taking that to mean literally 2 rides. 

It must be a heavy burden knowing everything...

 

18 minutes ago, rappa said:

probably shouldn’t be the measure. 

No it shouldn't be, but going back to the original point of discussion, the median wait times and the attached data show that there are clearly issues within the parks, and specifically the way they are operated.

 

19 minutes ago, rappa said:

Just the same as when someone says “we only got 2 rides all day” we shouldn’t be taking that to mean literally 2 rides. 

Clearly you and @joz are struggling to see the irony and sarcasm used in my original statement.

I do apologise for the fact that this could've been missed due to you focusing on sharpening your pitch forks... /s (Just in case)

[joz]

1 hour ago, ShakeShack said:

That's not the point of discussion though. The fact of the matter is, these attractions are putting through a 

Movie Worlds pax capacity hasn't increased, yet their attractions line up has. We weren't seeing this type of attraction wait times pre covid, yet they were still doing record crowds. This comes down to poor operations, running attractions at a 3rd of their possible throughput. I will say it again, clear and concise expectations need to be set, otherwise it will be the same shit.

A theme park being full to the point that you're getting on 2 attractions in a day, is the result of poor planing, design and operations. It's as simple as that.

So when you said 2 attractions a day, were you being sarcastic? If so doesn't that undermine your point? That's the only thing you've said that I've responded to. The way you've worded it, it seems like you believe it to be somewhat true, because if you said it as a sarcastic statement it would go against the general thrust of this post

Edited January 26, 2023 by joz

[rappa]

9 minutes ago, WalleyWorld said:

But there is a choice if you are from interstate (which makes up a large portion of themepark ticket sales on the coast). Would you agree with the following? A family in Melbourne consults current/recent Google/Trip Advisor reviews for the Gold Coast themeparks - from these reviews they decide not to go on a themepark holiday to the GC. But instead stay in Melbourne and do the themeparks and waterparks locally.

No I wouldn’t, because a gold coast holiday is so far removed from staying jn melbourne that they aren’t comparable choices. The ‘gold coast holiday’ is a bit of an Australian institution and a lot of people want to do it. 
 

So whilst I agreed above that Reviews are important in many cases, Gold Coast Theme Parks just aren’t majorly one of them as I pretty decently explained. 
 

Do you use bad guest feedback as an opportunity to try and improve your business? 100% where reasonable you should. Are they driving or discouraging gate at the moment? Doubtful

 

…say pitchfork again