Scooby Doo Carriages

[Adam]

Can anyone that works at Movie World confirm if the cars on Scooby Doo have brakes and/or motors in them?

[Richard]

I don't work at Movie World, but no, they don't. All drive and safety systems are mounted to the track.

[Bussy]

Well I have done a bit of searching on this and found this. I have asked them for more information but it seems that Mack, who built Scooby, do have a powered coaster. As I said I have asked for more information about how it works so we will hopefully find out a bit more soon. "The Bus is now leaving for Billy Mack Spring, Western Australia"

[Gazza]

I went and asked for info too Bus, I wonder what they will think.

[Adam]

I am also trying to extract more information from my source so I will let you know how I go.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Where on earth did the other scooby thread get off to where Adam was swearing blue in the face that they had infrared fire sensors on the cars, and the cars would reverse and all the rest? Rich, is it possible to place a user on a limited amount of created threads per week? Adam's going for a record.... Edit: Ahh - just found this little tidbit in my mailbox...

Removal of Scooby I have removed the thread that related to how I think it works (as I don't want this info on the net), no one here seems to know anything for real and are just guessing based on other rides, so ill leave it at that. Thanks. __________________ adam

Feeling too much like a fool Adam? Why don't you want the info on the net? Let me tell you my neurologically challenged ... associate... Some of the people on here are the best non-employee Amusement minds in Australia... and overseas, AND throw in a few employees into the bargain. The situation you suggested for Scooby is not only ludicrous, too expensive to WBMW's Budget, and a little unreliable and unpredictable in the event of an emergency, but its also stupid. If you have a theory, post it as such, don't crap on about how "your source" told you that this is how it is. YOU'RE WRONG... simple. If the cars were motor driven, then there would not be tyre-tread accelerators and brakes in the first part of the ride. There would be just a little sensor to instruct the motor to stop. now stop wasting our time with crap.

[Adam]

Alex, seriously dude you need to find something else better to do with your time. I have removed the other thread and rephrased the question as this sort of information is some what confidential. Alex, you can think what you like. I don’t care. I am not here to debate whether this is true. You are just guessing based on other rides of this type. I want answers, not idiots telling me to shut up. Don't even bother replying to this thread Alex.

[Richard]

Can anyone that works at Movie World confirm if the cars on Scooby Doo have breaks and/or motors in them?

I am not here to debate whether this is true.

Which will it be? I can tell you now that this sytem you speak of doesn't exist. If you're not going to believe us, that's up to you.

[Adam]

Richard, I simply want to know from someone who actually operates the ride or is 100% sure that this isn't true. As I said, I don't want a debate, I want an answer from an experienced user. So far, no one here actually works at Movie World but are all willing to get into a debate. Richard, are you 100% sure, with full proof, that the cars do not have motors and/or brakes? If you can answer this question than I will be happy.

[Richard]

On the contrary, provide us with proof that this system does exist if you're not willing to debate it. Let's think about this logically. If there were built-in systems, how do you think these motors create motion? Do they connect to the road wheels (the main polyeurethane coated wheels), or have a separate drive system? The block and monitoring system is not absolute. Trains can only be tracked to vague locations around the track. This is done with radio trackers, which are seen as small green blocks every few metres to the left of the centre of the track. With this in mind, built-in brakes would be ineffective and dangerous. As it stands, the block braking system on the ride consists of regularly placed sections of brakes (or tyres). A train stopped in any of these sections will be able to complete the ride course completely on gravity. These points are also equipped with walkways for emergency access, leading directly to emergency exits. Your system has trains stopping anywhere and everywhere as they please. It's a bit difficult to evacuate a ride when a train is stopped on a 45º slope. Why do you think Scooby-Doo is different from all other existing Mack wild mouse rides? It might be a better ride experience, but that doesn't mean it's in any way more technical than others. If you don't want to debate it, then don't bother posting it here.

[joz]

Alex, relax man, its not that big a deal. Adam, pretty much everyone is 99.99999 percent sure that such a system does not exist. Its not gospel, but its about the best your going to get, and remember, the people on this site normally get it pretty right when it comes to this sort of thing. You have to remember that everywhere in the haunted house section is within a short walk of an exit, and every bloke brake inside the ride has a catwalk to it. The other point as well, is if the ride e-stopped (trapping the cars on the brakes) it wouldn't be able to move anyway. There are quite a few reasons why this wouldn't work, so its a better then fair chance that the cars don't have a motor.

[Adam]

I got the information from someone who operates the Scooby Doo ride and has read the handbook (as is required to operate the ride). I am happy to discuss the subject with you (Richard), wonderbus, Gazza or joz, but I can't be bothered with Alex's stupid comments. The reason I said I didn't want to debate it was because I wanted someone else who actually operates the ride to answer the question but it seems that no one here is able to do so. Let’s begin the debate… For a start, this information was given to me by someone who operates Scooby Doo. This person would not lie to me and unless he/she was very confused (I am going to ask him/her again next time I see him/her) then I think the information he/she provided would have been correct. Maybe the individual carriages do not have motors or brakes, but why are they equipped with batteries and why have electrical contacts been added to the track? Surely if they were only running LED’s then a 9V battery would last the day. … I have to go out now but when I get back ill post a few more things. Also, thanks Richard for taking the time to help me out.

[Gazza]

But buying a new 9v battery every day for every car would just be wasteful. The LEDs might be powered by some other system, such as some sort of device in the car that generates the small amount of power needed for the LED. Are the electrical contacts you are thinking of just the block system sensors. If you want a definite answer, send an Email to the park or ask rabid as he would be able to get a straight answer.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Joz, I'm cool mate, im just getting seriously annoyed with the crap that comes from this guy. Adam - as far as the contact terminals on the car, and a power supply, the "eyes" in the car are not LED's, nor are they Infrared Sensors. I might not be a ride operator on Scooby, but I have made lighting design a passion of mine, just ask flea or rappa. The "Eyes" are low-volt lasers. this can be noticed mostly in the laser room itself. they are not powerful enough to throw a long beam, but the "eyes" do cast a beam of laser light. look directly into the eyes to see what I mean (not recommended if you value your sight, however low doses should not be harmful) The contacts, naturally would be the interface between the operators "lockunlock lapbars" buttons and the car. Adam, I seriously think this friend of yours was having a lend of you. The majority of the ride is gravity driven, and what isnt gravity driven has tyre-propelled accelerators. there is no reason for the cars to have any motorised system. I claim to be no expert, but this discussion, now spanned across two separate threads, has you contradicting yourself over and over again. I am offering an explaination of Logic, Common Sense, and reasonably based assumption of parts where it is a given that it would be so. The fact that you will accept no information from anyone who would be reasonably in the know (Richard for example), just because they do not OPERATE the ride is ridiculous. To be honest, in the time I have been a member of this site, I have NEVER known Richard to be wrong about a park he is experienced with. You say you want to debate.... then be open to reasonable comment, rather than quashing any argument that contradicts your own.

[Bussy]

I agree that this system as Adam describes it is ludicrous however the Mack site itself has this PDF (1.7Mb) about a Powered Coaster. Unfortunately it obviously doesn't go into much detail but does describe it as 'self-propelled' and can 'reach speeds up to 26 Mph'. This is the first time I have come across a motorised coaster but I still don't believe that the individual cars would have sensors to detect fires and back the train up. "The Bus is now leaving for Coasters Retreat, NSW"

[Gazza]

Yeah, there are quite a few mack powered coasters about, one that springs to mind is Runaway Mine Train at Alton Towers. But I dont think this system is in use at MW, its is just incredibly unlikley. It would require electrical contacts along the entire track, which in just realising this, I have just thought of another point, if there is this supposed reverse away from danger system, how would it work if there is no third rail to power the car at the section the car is at. Another point, on the ride, can you hear electrical motor noises? And also, if these cars have batteries to move them, then where would the lage space needeed to hold the batteries be located. I really do thing you were being had, all the reasons stated by various people sound way more likley than something that was probably said to get someone (Adam) bothering someone (The ride op) about the intricate workings of the rides saftey systems off their back while they tried to do their job (operate the ride) Tell me people which of these situations sounds more likley. SITUATION A Adam: Hey Ride op dude, what happens on this ride in an emergency? Op: Uhh, well, we have these back up motors in the car right, that get you away from danger, and you know those Eyes that look like LEDs, well they are fire sensors. Adam: Cool! Op: (thinking to himself) Hee hee hee, he actually believed that spiel. SITUATION B Adam: Hey Ride op dude, what happens on this ride in an emergency? Op: Scooby Doo Spooky Coaster features a complex emergency system, and I will now stop doing my job of operating the ride to tell you about it. The ride features a complext zone blocking system, that................................. (10 mins later)........ And thats how it works. Adam: Cool!

[Adam]

Thanks everyone for your response on the subject, to make it easiest to say what I have to say I will quote individual posts from each person below. I am not saying I fully believe this, if I did, then I wouldn’t have posted here looking for an answer would I? And to make it clear, this isn’t “Adam’s crazy theory,” it’s what I’ve been told. Onboard Car System 1. Motors and Brakes Personally, reading what others have written, I agree. There is no need for cars to have motors or brakes onboard the cars. This would not only be useless in the main warehouse building but also in the first part of the ride as brakes / motors are already installed in the track and are unlikely to fail, and if they did, they would fail safe. 2. Fire sensing technology This is something that I truly believe is installed in every car; a heat sensor that points directly ahead. The data from this sensor is fed to a radio transmitter that sends information directly the main computer. If fire / heat is detected in front of the car it would automatically signal the emergency evacuation alarm. I cannot see how my friend could be wrong about this, I mean, he/she wouldn’t make it up, yet I still have no proof whatsoever that this system exists but I am going to ask him/her again next time I see them (should be over the next two or three days). After what happened in Luna Park, this technology is a great idea, although there is no confirmation that Scooby Doo has this. Previous Posts

These points are also equipped with walkways for emergency access, leading directly to emergency exits. Your system has trains stopping anywhere and everywhere as they please. It's a bit difficult to evacuate a ride when a train is stopped on a 45º slope.

Exactly, this is how I figured it would work before I asked him/her. This would allow for the quickest evacuation time and the harness could auto release at each station and light up the path to the exit.

Why do you think Scooby-Doo is different from all other existing Mack wild mouse rides?

Well I thought because it was indoors and there was greater chance of a fire but I have been known to be wrong.

But buying a new 9v battery every day for every car would just be wasteful.

This isn’t what I meant Gazza, and you knew it as well.

The fact that you will accept no information from anyone who would be reasonably in the know (Richard for example), just because they do not OPERATE the ride is ridiculous.

Alex, if you actually read what I say: Richard, I simply want to know from someone who actually operates the ride or is 100% sure that this isn't true. Questions Richard (or anyone else that knows as much as this guy), are there many differences between the fire procedure and the e-stop procedure? Does anyone else have any reasons as to why fire sensors wouldn't be on the car? Has anyone been on the ride for an emergency evacuation? Thanks.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1. Motors and Breaks (BRAKES... moron) Personally, reading what others have written, I agree. There is no need for cars to have motors or breaks onboard the cars.

Finally it has broken through.

2. Fire sensing technology This is something that I truly believe is installed in every car; a heat sensor that points directly ahead. The data from this sensor is fed to a radio transmitter that sends information directly the main computer. If fire / heat is detected in front of the car it would automatically signal the emergency evacuation alarm.

Does anyone else have any reasons as to why fire sensors wouldn't be on the car?

Yes, I have one - there are 18 cars on the ride. The track length is over half a kilometre long, and takes over 4 minutes to complete a circuit. While we see the ride itself, there would be numerous "back of house" areas that we don't see. Your theory suggests that the eyes are the fire detectors. I've already told you they are nothing but low volt lasers, but if you persist in disagreeing, then heres another reason - the eyes can only detect straight ahead. this means that it would not detect a fire just around the corner until it had come completely through the corner. this is dangerous... then, without a motor on board, which you have already conceded, it is incapable of reversing. you got yourself four crispy guests. What is more likely is a static in house fire safety system equipped with smoke detection and thermal monitoring, and fire sprinklers or foamers (as discussed previously). In the event of a fire, all cars are stopped at the first available block brake to be evacuated, while the sprinkler foamer safety system begins smothering the fire. I mean . . . seriously if there isn't a car in the vicinity of a fire when it occurs, the fire can flare up before it is detected. In a perfect world the cars are separated by 30 metres.... now realistically, with delays locking lap bars and other things, it could be more or less. so there are big gaps in the ride... if your on-board fire safety "eyes" aren't withing 10 metres or so, its not going to pick it up, and if its not directly ahead..... its not going to pick it up... simple eh?

I cannot see how my friend could be wrong about this, I mean, he wouldn’t make it up, yet I still have no proof whatsoever that this system exists but I am going to ask him/her again next time I see them (should be over the next two or three days).

look harder. he is having a serious lend of you.

After what happened in Luna Park, this technology is a great idea, although there is no confirmation that Scooby Doo has this.

I think its safe to say that a fire sprinkler or foamer is a great idea after what happened in luna park. on board detection systems are just ridiculous. what if the radio link between the car and control was lost? it would detect the fire, and stop, but nobody would know it had stopped except by looking at the block system, and in the mean time, 4 crispy guests...

Well I thought because it was indoors and there was greater chance of a fire but I have been known to be wrong.

Yes, you have.

[Adam]

I am not suggesting that an entire heat/smoke detection system doesn’t exist, in fact, he/she told me it does, and explained what happens when it detects a fire.

look harder. he[/she] is having a serious lend of you.

Yea, as I said, Ill ask him/her again when I see them.

I think its safe to say that a fire sprinkler or foamer is a great idea after what happened in luna park.

Very true. You not only have to detect a fire but also know how to evacuate people and distinguish the fire as quickly as possible. Alex, you have made some good points about the onboard fire sensors being unnecessary. I mean, if there was a complete in house system, the onboard sensor would appear to be overkill. I have another question, this time it’s about the logic circuit that controls the “wheel brakes” in the track. If for example, a car doesn’t make it past the next zone successfully, the wheels in the track stop turning so the previous car will not continue into the next zone and collide. Do the wheels that connect the two zones stop turning as soon as the zone is occupied or does it wait for the car behind it to hit a sensor (e.g. just in front of the wheel) so it has less wear on the tires and the wheels will then be directly under the carriage allowing the car to start again easily (e.g. the car would hit the sensor when the wheels are directly under the car, stopping the wheels and the car simultaneously). Attached is a diagram of what I mean.

[Gazza]

The brakes that seperate each block automaticaly close when that block is occupied. For example, say a car passes a set of brakes at the start of a block, after it has cleared the brakes they close, and do not re-open until it passes the next set of brakes, these ones close, and the first set opens. The brakes would most likley shut as soon as the block is occupied,instead of waiting till the car is near because it would save power (it takes power to keep brakes open) and because wear probably isnt much of an issue, i dont think its that frequent a car needs to stop on the main run-away part of the track because the dispatch times and block spacings have been optimised so this doesnt happen. They do this by having more blocks than required. As for the fire thing, its just stupid, If the fire detectors are placed so that all parts of the ride are covered then it would be more reliable than a sensor mounted on a moving object that can only see a part of the ride at a time. A fixed fire detector would find a fire sooner.

[Adam]

I am talking about the wheels "locking" up, not actual air brakes closing (e.g. wheels locking up at the station and before the lift etc.). I was pretty sure they waited until the car was directly over the wheels and then they stopped the tires at this point. This is what it looks like to me at the loading station. It would allow them to start the car again very easily. Richard? I'm sure you know more than anyone here, what do you think happens?

[Gazza]

Brakes, wheels, same difference. lets just call them "car stopping thingys" But anyway, its the same thing again, it takes less power to leave the wheels off then to have them running needlessly.

[Adam]

I still don't agree Gazza. If the wheels stopped before a car ran onto them (in order to "brake" the car), it would take tread off the tyre and when the car was ready to proceed the wheels wouldn't be directly under the car. It would also be hard to control where the car is stopping depending on the tread left on the tyre (which would change the rate of deceleration). If what you are saying is true then in order to bring the carriage to a stop, (eg. before the lift or at the loading station) it would be scrapping tread off the tyres. I am pretty sure the wheels would move the car forward until it reached some type of sensor which would stop the motors in the track at the right time. But... as always, I want someone else's opinion on this.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

you got it... Gazza is correct, and I can verify this by my own eyes on previous trips on Scooby Doo. (infra red cameras are a wonderful thing). The tyre devices do in fact stop working if the block ahead is not clear. you can see this at the station too, with the first few tyre sections in front of the loading zone. when an operator presses despatch, they all ramp up and begin spinning. Once a car has cleared it, they stop until such time as the next car is ready for despatch. Adam, you are correct in saying that there would be a bit of wear on the tyre drive systems. essentially, it is the same with a fin brake as well. the best way to stop a moving object is with friction, be it a fin between two brake pads, or a tyre against the undercarriage of the scooby cars (im assuming the cars have some sort of flat steel plate where the tyre drives would contact). Yes the tyres would wear out, but this is checked daily, and WBMW maintenance would have their minimum standards on it, and of course there would be failsafes in place, especially in regards to the tyre drive directly before the elevator, but the wheels do not move unless the block (next tyre drive) has been cleared as well. As I said before, there should be about 30 metres minimum between each car. Any rider who looks will see the small PLC devices (in the laser room its easy to spot, a small black box with a brightly glowing green LED light), and they are spaced at 30 metres or less around the track. Heres a little diagram of a blocking system and how it would work

[Adam]

Thanks Alex but I still have further questions. When the car comes back to the station, it needs to stop at exactly the right place (and it does), if the wheels were off, how would it do this? Also when you ride the ride the wheels are clearly moving and only stop once the car reaches a certain point (which I am guessing is a sensor as I have suggested). And before the lift, if the wheels right before the lift were off (in order to stop the car), how would it stop the car at the precise moment it needs to? I am pretty sure it waits until the wheels are directly under the car and then stops them. If you notice on dispatch, both cars proceed forward but when the second car reaches a certain point, the wheels exactly underneath the car are killed (rather than stopping the wheels before the car reaches it). I think this is because it is hitting a sensor (and the logic controller also knows that the next zone is occupied so it stops the tires). In my opinion, stopping the carriage when the wheels are directly under the carriage is the best thing to do (in other sections of the ride where cars do not stop often, such as between the station and the lift, the wheels might turn off completely, as both of you say - I am not sure as I have never seen it happen). You can also see green boxes (which are track sensors) after each of these sets of wheels used to stop the cars. And notice how each motor drives three wheels, the perfect size to fit under each carriage so the car at rest can accelerate again. At the loading station, or before the lift, I have never seen a car stop over just one or two wheels (as is likely to happen if these wheels were off before the car reached it), they stop perfectly over all the wheels.

when an operator presses despatch, they all ramp up and begin spinning. Once a car has cleared it, they stop until such time as the next car is ready for despatch.

This is perfectly true! The wheels you are talking about though are not used to stop the cars. I have been to Movie World many times and at the loading bay once a car has left, the wheels on the track where the car is designed to stop, keep turning until the next car is exactly over them, and then it stops it at the perfect time. This is how I believe the wheel brakes stop the car. Very efficient and the deceleration can even be controlled (to some extent). Everyone, opinions?