One Year Later… How do we feel?

[themagician]

So it was on this day a year ago that Dreamworld made its $60 million announcements of the Dreamland Parents Centre, Dreamworld Flyer, Kenny & Belinda’s Dreamland, Ocean Parade Expansion and Rivertown.

I know we’re only halfway through the whole construction process, but with everything’s that’s already open, under construction and any new information we’ve found out over the past year, how does everyone know feel about these announcements now? There were a few people on here that had strong opinions about some of the announcements, but also a lot of people were very excited by it all. 

Personally at the time, I was unsure about the Dreamworld Flyer and Ocean Parade Expansion. But seeing them complete, I think the Dreamworld Flyer was a good decision as it’s transformed the front of the park for the better. And while I still have the opinion the splash pad should have gone in the existing Ocean Parade area, I do think it works better being close to Dreamland and it still leaves a large area of the park for future developments.

I had already expected a Dreamworld redevelopment, but I think Dreamland has turned out to be a nice project, and has allowed the kids area to become more complete. The theming and immersion isn’t quite to the level of Dreamworks, but I still think it’s turned out well. And having seen the overall layout of Rivertown, that’s made me even more excited for its opening.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Yeah I'm not going to get torn up about the use of pool fence on a ramp railing. I know they could do better but they're not working with unlimited money cheats turned on so if they're putting their money into the things that actually do make a big difference, then i'm here for it.

I've seen a lot of positive steps from the park in the past 12 or so months. I don't think they're getting it all right yet, but my opinion of them has been helped by the contrasting experience down the road. 

I'm keen to see what their next move is, once Jungle Rush opens. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Here's an (almost) one year on comparison:

[themagician]

@DaptoFunlandGuy that's awesome, thanks for sharing. Something that they did announce a year ago, that we can see in these images they have also completed is the install of the solar panels. They have used the Exhibition Centre, maintence buildings and when they built the new roof over the dodgems and arcade they've also installed the solar panels on there.

[New display name]

@themagician I don't remember having an opinion on it during the announcement, probably because I didn't give it much thought, but I don't like how the precinct boundaries, have now been muddied.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

out of interest, which precinct boundary do you mean?

If you mean Dreamland, the entryway near the food court is quite distinct, the bridge, the water squirting characters... and the other end of dreamland isn't finished yet. Given the construction of BRB coaster will be the boundary to the land - they've erected a pretty tall block wall across the splashpad, so it certainly seems like they're going for a distinct boundary... we won't know until they clean up and finalise the floor covering in that space...

Also - the word precinct still triggers me. it's a damn land. Wish parks would just call it a land.

[themagician]

I’d assume he’s referring to this area that’s part of the Ocean Parade expansion, but the park map would suggest it’s part of Dreamland.

[djmcbell]

I'm excited for it. We all know Dreamworld isn't rolling in the cash and us a very family-friendly park. If that means they're not getting the biggest coasters then so be it - my kids will be happy. This genuinely interests me far more than the Wizard of Oz are at MW.

[New display name]

According to Ardent Leisure, they have over 140m in cash and no debt.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

14 hours ago, themagician said:

I’d assume he’s referring to this area that’s part of the Ocean Parade expansion, but the park map would suggest it’s part of Dreamland.

Yeah, truth be told, Dreamworld socials goofed a while back and referenced the Deep Sea Dodgems as part of K&B Dreamland, so they probably aren't even sure themselves. They have painted themselves into a corner a bit by extending Ocean Parade, it's a bit of a weird spot when you look at that map above. Perhaps they could keep the sea theme, but theme dodgems, splash pad and serpent slayer as 'under the sea' whereas shockwave, claw, goldcoaster and tailspin are all 'above the water'...

[themagician]

I'm in two minds about it and have thought about how else they could have done it.

I think the placement of the splashzone and the retheme of the dodgems has been great and having it within close proximity of Dreamland was a smart move. And maybe they could have got away with them being part of Dreamland. However, with Serpent Slayer being kept in it's location, it wouldn't have made sense to make take that style of ride a part of Dreamland.

It probably would have been good to relocate SS to be within the existing Ocean Parade area, and added a couple more kids rides into Dreamland but conteract the loss of the Teacups and Boat from ABC Kids World. However, relocating a ride within a park wouldn't be cheap and is it really worth it (Especially if they've got a masterplan for the pre-existing Ocean Parade).

Because this extension of Ocean Parade is relativley narrow, the part I don't like is how you cross through OP to get to Tiger Island from Dreamland (or vice versa). It definitley feels like Dreamland should just border with Tiger Island, and that's probably why it's still represented that way on the map (or they just haven't gotten round to updating it on the map).

 

[New display name]

 I guess throwing the ABC rides in the middle of Kenny & Belinda’s Dreamland is just taking a bit of time to get a custom to after it was separate worlds for so long.  SS location is a shit-show but I don’t really blame the current DW team for that.  (but if it was me, I would had moved it, The ride was fully disassembled during the re-theme, so DW had the best opportunity to correct the wrong).

[Baconjack]

On 24/11/2023 at 7:49 AM, themagician said:

I had already expected a Dreamworld redevelopment, but I think Dreamland has turned out to be a nice project, and has allowed the kids area to become more complete. The theming and immersion isn’t quite to the level of Dreamworks, but I still think it’s turned out well. And having seen the overall layout of Rivertown, that’s made me even more excited for its opening.

Current management did what the pre-2016 management would have done - remove logos, repaint buildings & rides while making minimal changes and called it a day. When there is no IP and by extension no standards to follow they can do whatever they want. Hence why there are ancient chinese facades in ocean parade & fantasy buildings in kenny & belinda's dreamland.

Some parts of the land are done better than others, I think the splash zone and the dodgems are done quite well but I think that the park could have little more ambitious in removing traces of dreamworks from that corner of the park to make something totally new as opposed to a debrand.

All said its very clear to me they are spending the bulk of capex on rivertown and I think this will turn out much better because they're flattening abc kids world and starting from scratch, so just a case of wait and see. I am certainly optimistic for that if anything.

On 27/11/2023 at 6:31 PM, djmcbell said:

This genuinely interests me far more than the Wizard of Oz are at MW.

Wizard of Oz I feel gets unfairly denigrated because one of its key coasters can be ridden in Victoria.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Baconjack

[kujotess]

Dreamworld has done immense progress in 1 year and the park is looking great and things are moving quickly. VRTP cannot relate. 

[djmcbell]

6 hours ago, Baconjack said:

Wizard of Oz I feel gets unfairly denigrated because one of its key coasters can be ridden in Victoria.

I didn't know that.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

12 hours ago, Baconjack said:

Current management did what the pre-2016 management would have done - remove logos, repaint buildings & rides while making minimal changes and called it a day. When there is no IP and by extension no standards to follow they can do whatever they want. Hence why there are ancient chinese facades in ocean parade & fantasy buildings in kenny & belinda's dreamland.

Some parts of the land are done better than others, I think the splash zone and the dodgems are done quite well but I think that the park could have little more ambitious in removing traces of dreamworks from that corner of the park to make something totally new as opposed to a debrand.

All said its very clear to me they are spending the bulk of capex on rivertown and I think this will turn out much better because they're flattening abc kids world and starting from scratch, so just a case of wait and see. I am certainly optimistic for that if anything.

Wizard of Oz I feel gets unfairly denigrated because one of its key coasters can be ridden in Victoria.

I don't think it's fair to suggest that current management are like pre-2016 management at all - for starters the big implication there (which you probably didn't intend) is that current management is perhaps being unsafe, taking shortcuts or risking peoples lives - when I know for a fact Dreamworld has a current emphasis on making safety the very first and primary consideration above all others (which is why I think we do sometimes see things like pool fences etc. that maybe weren't entirely necessary).

I know what you're getting at from a themeing perspective though. I agree with you that the chinese rooftops should have been taken down, but as they stand currently, it doesn't look terrible. Yes, Dreamland has given them freedom to leave some things 'as they are' with some small changes to signage, but rather than being lazy, i think that's a clever way to tackle the problem on a budget. They have, and continue to plus the area as time goes on, so while things like the chinese themed roof is unlikely to change, I don't think we can call a final opinion on the land until its... well... final. 

 

As for Wizard Of Oz, it's reception hasn't changed much from the very beginning. This land has to do a lot of heavy lifting and there are great expectations. I don't think a clone coaster is something to worry about - especially since many folk won't ride TNT in the first place, so this gives them that opportunity, and arguably it will be the better themed one - simply based on the expectations we have from "Australia's Greatest Theme Park". 

I think a lot of the denigration here stems from Oz being a weird choice of IP, and probably the current status quo with Village's decision making in recent times. People don't have high expectations of Village lately, and so I suspect that a lot of the negativity directed at this land comes from the default position, rather than any other park having a similar ride.

12 hours ago, kujotess said:

Dreamworld has done immense progress in 1 year and the park is looking great and things are moving quickly. VRTP cannot relate. 

pretty much. 

[Baconjack]

1 hour ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

I don't think it's fair to suggest that current management are like pre-2016 management at all - for starters the big implication there (which you probably didn't intend) is that current management is perhaps being unsafe, taking shortcuts or risking peoples lives - when I know for a fact Dreamworld has a current emphasis on making safety the very first and primary consideration above all others (which is why I think we do sometimes see things like pool fences etc. that maybe weren't entirely necessary).

I know what you're getting at from a themeing perspective though. I agree with you that the chinese rooftops should have been taken down, but as they stand currently, it doesn't look terrible. Yes, Dreamland has given them freedom to leave some things 'as they are' with some small changes to signage, but rather than being lazy, i think that's a clever way to tackle the problem on a budget. They have, and continue to plus the area as time goes on, so while things like the chinese themed roof is unlikely to change, I don't think we can call a final opinion on the land until its... well... final. 

Yeah I certainly didn’t imply the safety part. Anyone would have done what current management are doing, I mean the operations of old management really speaks for itself - I’m not looking at it from a day-to-day operations point of view but rather from a presentation and capex allocation point of view. Even old management would sprinkle in some minimal theming - look at tail spin & hot wheels as examples. How are they any different to let’s say giant drop & taipan. It’s inoffensive sure but is still quite boring, this is a theme park, not taronga zoo. It’s almost the polar opposite of what’s on offer at the spit (although general upkeep is a different story entirely)

Also the budget argument is a perfectly valid point - dreamworld are spending most of the cash on Rivertown- but give me a cohesive land over an extra flat or 2 any day of the week. New rides can be added later on in a stage 2 - but you need a good foundation first before adding new stuff (and not the other way around) which is what this refresh should have been but unfortunately misses the mark in that regard slightly..

Edited December 1, 2023 by Baconjack

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1 hour ago, Baconjack said:

How are they any different to let’s say giant drop & taipan. It’s inoffensive sure but is still quite boring, this is a theme park, not taronga zoo. It’s almost the polar opposite of what’s on offer at the spit (although general upkeep is a different story entirely)

To be fair outside the big two, most "theme parks" content themselves with a logo sticker on the front of the ride vehicle and maybe a statue of the ride's mascot standing beside the ride sign... and we're already doing marginally better with that.

[Ashley Jeffery]

17 hours ago, Baconjack said:

Current management did what the pre-2016 management would have done - remove logos, repaint buildings & rides while making minimal changes and called it a day. When there is no IP and by extension no standards to follow they can do whatever they want. Hence why there are ancient chinese facades in ocean parade & fantasy buildings in kenny & belinda's dreamland.

Some parts of the land are done better than others, I think the splash zone and the dodgems are done quite well but I think that the park could have little more ambitious in removing traces of dreamworks from that corner of the park to make something totally new as opposed to a debrand.

All said its very clear to me they are spending the bulk of capex on rivertown and I think this will turn out much better because they're flattening abc kids world and starting from scratch, so just a case of wait and see. I am certainly optimistic for that if anything.

Wizard of Oz I feel gets unfairly denigrated because one of its key coasters can be ridden in Victoria.

I doubt kids are walking around pointing out the roofs. It's a kids area and still the best themed one in Australia. Remember this isn't Disney and the key demographic they are targeting is kids. 

[Baconjack]

11 minutes ago, Ashley Jeffery said:

I doubt kids are walking around pointing out the roofs. It's a kids area and still the best themed one in Australia. Remember this isn't Disney and the key demographic they are targeting is kids. 

“It’s a kids area” is not a valid excuse to explain away abject laziness because there’s no longer licensing standards that the park is bound to. People will walk past that ocean parade section to get to serpent slayer & tiger island it’s not just kids. Neither is the “not Disney” excuse our parks in the 90’s did what Disney could for half the price.

I suppose Nickelodeon Land doesn’t exist either and you’ve conveniently forgotten that

[themagician]

27 minutes ago, Ashley Jeffery said:

still the best themed one in Australia. 

What about Nickelodeon Land and Castaway Bay?

[Tricoart]

35 minutes ago, themagician said:

What about Nickelodeon Land and Castaway Bay?

Castaway Bay’s so disconnected from the main park that Sea World themselves seem to forget about its existence (made worse by the monorail’s closure, and evidenced by the noticeable rust/peeling paint all around Splash Battle), & Nickelodeon Land is barely a ‘land’, it’s a walkway to JR/Storm (or a slight diversion to Levi) with mildly SpongeBob-themed rides. That said, once whatever’s replacing the destroyed hut is built, Looney Tunes might contend, & WoO definitely will (if you put it in a similar category to Dreamland, that is).

Edited December 1, 2023 by Tricoart

[themagician]

38 minutes ago, Tricoart said:

Castaway Bay’s so disconnected from the main park that Sea World themselves seem to forget about its existence (made worse by the monorail’s closure, and evidenced by the noticeable rust/peeling paint all around Splash Battle)

All true, but as a themed land (particularly in its early years) I think it’s one of the better themed lands on the GC

[Ashley Jeffery]

2 hours ago, themagician said:

What about Nickelodeon Land and Castaway Bay?

Nickeloden is a pathway with spongebob,  Castaway Bay would be a lot better with out the pipe volcano.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

On 01/12/2023 at 6:02 PM, themagician said:

All true, but as a themed land (particularly in its early years) I think it’s one of the better themed lands on the GC

If the standard is just based on opening day, then Dreamworld wins hands down. 

Back to reality though - I was curious about the longevity of the kids lands so I checked out the wiki for the three parks to get dates of rethemes. (disclaimer, i've just used 1-Jan where specific dates weren't given, so I realise there are going to be discrepancies).

If you discount the non-IP based lands like Kennyland and Beach Break Bay, the average timespan for these themed lands is 8.9 (though WB skews that number hard, and the other two only average 7.8) and what this tells me is that Sea World's Nickelodeon land is about due for a refresh of some sort. 

The MW land on face value looks like it's long overdue for a complete overhaul (and honestly, it probably does need it) but on the numbers alone this is a bit harsh as they haven't really had a changed IP or theme since the park opened, but the land has had changes without a retheme over the years including the loss of LTRR, install and later the renovation of RRRR, install of JDS, Marvin and several other changes over the years (Speedy is the only original ride in it's original spot left, if i'm not  mistaken)

 

TL:DR - Kid's lands seem to average about 8 years with an IP before they should be rethemed, DW is right on target, and SW needs to start thinking about it now. MW's theme doesn't change, but the space sure needs to.