Superman the escape

[Midge]

I don't mean to create a stir, but my friend whom is a movieworld / rollercoaster fanatic has been disallusioned regarding an email that he sent to MovieWorld 5 and a half years ago. The email entailed his ideas for various rides, (i know this is a not a smart thing to do in the first place plus), but he was firstly curious upon riding the Scooby doo Spooky coaster for the first time that there were a few (just a few) identical similarities to his design. He took this as a coincidence. However one of the rides that was in the email was a Superman ride. He had described the themeing, the layout, the story of the ride in the email. As the details of the new ride unfold, it is eerily similar to his idea. Any suggestions what to do? Is it a coincidence, or could moviworld be using the ideas of nieve fans??

[dreamworld_rulz]

I don't mean to create a stir, but my friend whom is a movieworld / rollercoaster fanatic has been disallusioned regarding an email that he sent to MovieWorld 5 and a half years ago.  The email entailed his ideas for various rides,  (i know this is a not a smart thing to do in the first place plus), but he was firstly curious upon riding the Scooby doo Spooky coaster for the first time that there were a few (just a few) identical similarities to his design.  He took this as a coincidence.  However one of the rides that was in the email was a Superman ride.  He had described the themeing, the layout, the story of the ride in the email.  As the details of the new ride unfold, it is eerily similar to his idea.  Any suggestions what to do?  Is it a coincidence, or could moviworld be using the ideas of nieve fans??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have a copy of this email?

[joz]

Any suggestions what to do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Celebrate? If (and thats one hell of an if. Quite possibly the mother of all ifs, I don't know if there's ever been a bigger if) the ideas for those two rides came from your mate, well shouldn't he be happy? You send your wishlist to the park and the ride gets built, isn't that good? Besides, Richard could claim that Superman was his idea since he said that Movieworld should build a themed launch coaster based off a Warner Brothers movie coming out in 2006, all those people who had a Tornado on the wishlist for Wet 'n' Wild could take credit for that, or everyone who thought Dreamworld should tear down Thunderbolt can take some credit. Seriously, if something on his wishlist came up then I'd be happy rather then thinking your intitled to a cut.

[Richard]

Yeah, going again with the big "if" (this whole post relies on this if), why else would your friend send such an email if not to do anything but potentially help the park by giving some insight into what people possibly want? What if your friend sent an email saying something along the lines of "The burger I ate in the park was too cold, you should heat them better." as feedback for the park, and as a result the park improved the burger heating system. You'd just think that the park used the information provided to better service their customers. How is it any different from sending an email saying "This is the kind of ride I'd like to see at WBMW."? One would naturally assume that these ideas were freely exchanged and unsolicited, that there was no mention of payment in exchange for these ideas, nor was any attempt made at any stage to gain legal protection of said ideas. In fact I think you'd find legally the information your friend provided (to customer service) would be considered market research and provided to WBMW as-is and without any inferred or implied ownership. If further discussion regarding the ideas was entered it might be different, and there would presumably be concession for consulting costs. It also strikes me as odd that five and a half years ago your friend had described a ride which included elements (you say he described the layout) which didn't yet exist - things like a top hat or overbanked turns. Your friend also sent details of a combined dark ride/coaster themed to a character that wasn't at this stage part of the Warner Bros. family? I mean, how else could you possibly make a Scooby-Doo themed thrill ride? What about a Superman one? There aren't too many options. Perhaps if your friend had any further ideas you could share them, so that we know what the park will build next. Or maybe even tell us more about the Superman idea - I know that WBMW are far from revealing all aspects of this ride.

[MickeyD]

WOAAAH!! OK, I'm just going to spill my guts here & believe me, it's VERY relevant to the matter that has been just brought up (not relevant to the Superman Or Scooby rides however) OK, here goes... When I was about 15 going on 16 (the first year of Movieworld operating) I was so inspired by the Park & what it stood for - you could clearly see the makings of Australias first TRUE Theme Park experience that was lending from a lot of the worlds leading Park's ideas. Living just up the road in Nerang, I thought it would be a fantastic holiday job whilst in school and maybe one day on a more career level. Anyway, my inspiration from my first visit set me to work on what had become a hobbie by that stage - new ride & Theme Park design. I felt that the Park was missing the essential Thrill component whilst all other aspects of the Park were spot on for their time (um, maybe young Einsteins house was an exception to this!) The ride proposal that I put forward to the Park was entitled "Batman Adventure - Beyond theScreen" sound familliar?!?? The purpose of me sending this to the Park was to A) Show them my lifetime interests in the field (& hopefully get some positive recognition, meeting people in the industry etc) As a foot in the door, to land a job in the place no matter what it was (I later started carrying box heavy popcorn trays around!!) When I discovered Movieworld had plans to get rolling with such a venture, I stopped my drawings & sent in a letter together with all of my incomplete work. Months rolled on by & I didn't hear a thing till finally I received a letter from the CEO, Mr John Menzies initially apologising for getting back to me late as an overseas trip got in the middle & that they would love me to come in, meet the designer Team (Mr K Spiller) & Mr Menzies, to go through the plans for development etc & that they were very eager in keeping me posted as construction went phase to phase. I guess the real suprise for me came when I saw the ride in it's schematic design, the similarities between mine & their's were nothing short of extraordinary! The name really just being the tip of the ice berg. My Batman ride idea however was an indoor rollercoaster and their's a simulator, The true ironey lied in the following * The indoor rollercoaster was the FIRST consideration - they settled on the simulator to keep the mode of the park at the more family demographic + simulators were huge at the time (Star Tours & Back to the Future o/seas) and a coaster would never work so well when you are zipping past scenes etc with so much going on you could not take it all in nor did they have technology at the time to control the pace through the scenes- but then Scooby came along further down the track when the technology became more feasable!! * Wayne Manor Entry & Facade - EXACTLY the same in fundamental appearance to what I drew up off the top of my head. No, mine was not exactly rich in detail being 15 yo but if I can still find the original sketches, I am very happy to pin them up, you will see what I mean.. You could also imagine the suprise on my face the first time I laid eyes on these renderings! Movieworld always referred to this as a series of uncanny Co-incidances. * 2nd, my ride lead into the Library that was ideally going to be a set recreation from the most recent Batman film - AND SHOCK HORROR!! IT WAS! At the end of the day, I got what I wanted out of the WHOLE thing - Insite, recognition, a Job in a place which I treasured for 7 years so I wasn't too put off. They appeared to demonstrate some Moral Obligation to how I was treated regarding the project & almost giving me a sense of involvement (or was this perhaps a guilty concience on their part??? hmmm...) In answer to your question, do MovieWorld / WB's / village actually steal ideas from the little man? Well the writing on the wall certainly suggests they AT LEAST STRONGLY PARAPHRASE AND LOOK EXTERNALLY FOR INSPIRATION (as was done in my case.) The designers even alllowed for enough time to give themselves to create proper schematics before getting in contact with me! This is not all PURE coincidence but as I said at the end of the day I was happy to get a job in a place I LOVE as well as gain contacts with the right people in the place to help me learn more about an area I wanted to do so much more with. to this day i have a number of contacts in the Park that know this story - I am not pulling anyone's leg - you're hearing it from the horses mouth & I have plenty of proof to back it up. For any park insiders, perhaps go up & speak to a senior manager that may have a knowledge of this matter. I have to wonder if I am the person Midge is referring too? If not, this seems like a case of history repeating itself...hmm

[matty_o_911]

Just in regards to what you said were your ideas for the Batman ride. How can you claim that you 'came up with the idea' for the Wayne Manor and library interior. This ride was inspired by the movie and as we all know, the batcave lies deep below Wayne Manor. Now that means that with any ride relating to Batman, it would just be common sense to theme the entrance to Wayne Manor and then a library interior with a rotating bookshelf. I'm quite sure had they not seen your plans for Batman, they still would have created the Wayne Manor entrance because it just sense for the theme of the ride. I also find it hard to believe that you can claim to have given them the idea to include a Batman ride when at the time, I think Batman Returns would have been released and also between Batman Forever - so at this time this was a very successful film franchise and as such Movie World would logically want to take advantage of that, so it would have nothing to do with your idea to include Batman. The other thing I was wondering was whether the original Batman simulator movie was made specifically for WBMW?? Because if this sort of ride was already in place somewhere else and Movie World was just borrowing using it, then you have even less claim for giving them the idea. I'm not saying that they didn't take any notice of your ideas, because since you were an employee I'm sure they'd take notice. But I hardly think they steal ideas from the little man, especially when those ideas that the 'little man' made were based on ideas from 'THEIR' movies and therefore not entirely original anyway. So what you were doing is producing ideas from a Warner Bros idea (Batman movie, design, etc) that already existed. Therefore I doubt Movie World is obligated to you in anyway, because you were using their copyrighted ideas to further your own ends and why should they have to pay you or give you any credit for ideas that were theirs. And in regards the first post - I don't know how you could expect to have given Movie World the idea for Scooby Doo several years before the movie was released. Because if you have seen the Scooby Doo movie made here in Australia, you would now that an important scene in the film revolves around a ride which bears a stricking resemblance to the Scooby Doo Spooky Coaster. It is therefore clear the Movie World based the idea for this ride on the movie that was made right next door rather than what your friend sent in an email.

[Adam]

It's a very interesting story you present but somehow I think it was probably just a series of coincidences. At the end of the day, the only thing you got right was that they were building a Batman ride (just like people guessed Superman. I mean, when Village Roadshow brings out a new film and there hasn't been any park updates for a while, it's not hard to put two and two together). It might seem like all the ideas for the ride were taken from you, but I highly doubt it...

Wayne Manor Entry & Facade - EXACTLY the same in fundamental appearance to what I drew up off the top of my head. No, mine was not exactly rich in detail being 15 yo but if I can still find the original sketches, I am very happy to pin them up, you will see what I mean.. You could also imagine the suprise on my face the first time I laid eyes on these renderings! Movieworld always referred to this as a series of uncanny Co-incidances.

I'm sure the Wayne Manor Facade was the same as the one in the movie - the same place that your design was most likely based off which means they're bound to have similartieis.

* 2nd, my ride lead into the Library that was ideally going to be a set recreation from the most recent Batman film - AND SHOCK HORROR!! IT WAS!

Again, since the ride was based off the movie it's certainly not unusual for them to take sets and props from the movie and use them for the ride. Anyway, I think Movie World would have told you if they had taken ideas from you. I mean, why would they have reason to deny it? You obviously presented the ideas freely and were more than happy for them to use them. But if you really do think you were the person who got Movie World to install a Batman ride, then I'd love for you to get us a new studio/behind the scenes tour. And would it kill you to do something with the Maveric show building?

[MickeyD]

Just in regards to what you said were your ideas for the Batman ride.  How can you claim that you 'came up with the idea' for the Wayne Manor and library interior.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With all due respect, I never claimed I came up with the idea for the Wayne Manor - nor the Library - I was simply sharing my story & I guess the number of coincidences that lied within it.

I also find it hard to believe that you can claim to have given them the idea to include a Batman ride

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks again but I NEVER claimed I gave them the idea - I said I sent in my designs after they announced they had plans for a new Attraction (the beginning of the year that the ride was built)

The other thing I was wondering was whether the original Batman simulator movie was made specifically for WBMW??  Because if this sort of ride was already in place somewhere else and Movie World was just borrowing using it, then you have even less claim for giving them the idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have made NO CLAIM for this idea & nor did I ever/ would I ever seek compensation regarding it - as I said, I was gratful for the oppurtunities the Park gave me over a 7 year career - I was simply sharing my story but it is very interesting how things can be taken out of context btw;) The simulator design came from a company that helped build qantas simulators as well as NASA ones - that came from the horses mouth. sorry I cannot remember any other details.

And in regards the first post - I don't know how you could expect to have given Movie World the idea for Scooby Doo several years before the movie was released. .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, I never stated that I gave MW any ideas for Scooby whatsoever - I did say that my original design was for a Batman rollercoaster that had controlled speed elements like Scooby does. I do not doubt Scooby is based on that film & inspiration etc came from there. Finally, (referring to the top post) I have no idea who this person is or who they are referring too. I for one did not send an e-mail into MW - My experience, e-mail was not that widly used at the time! Edited September 11, 2005 by MickeyD

[matty_o_911]

My comment about the Scooby Doo ride was not in relation to anything you, MickeyD, said about the ride but rather in response to the first post in this thread by Midge. I obviously should have used quotes in my post but it takes too much effort and I couldn't be bothered. And my apologies if I did seem to misinterpret your post, however that was how I interpreted some of it at the time (mind you I had just woken up so my brain might not have been functioning correctly yet.)

[MickeyD]

It's all good! I was half asleep when I wrote it:)

[GoGoBoy]

Besides, Richard could claim that Superman was his idea since he said that Movieworld should build a themed launch coaster based off a Warner Brothers movie coming out in 2006,

Excuse me - while we're all claiming undeserved credit for things might I remind you that way back in May 2004 I was the first to suggest a SUPERMAN COASTER for Movie World. Here is the post - http://www.parkz.com.au/forums/in...p?showtopic=804 I agree with joz and Rich. Even when I heard that Superman was going to be built I never once thought that Movie World had taken my idea. As the others have said, based on Movie World's theme it was a pretty obvious choice. However, if it turns out that Movie World are actually taking fans ideas then that's great! A park that actually listens! Hooray!

[scott]

I can think of another park in Australia that would do well by doing that

Edited September 11, 2005 by scott

[dr_teeth]

Email or not here is some copyright fact. A design only has to differ by a determined 10% in total to avoid problems with copyright or patent laws. Ive been invloved in electrical design work in the past and this can most times be achieved by a simple layout change of wiring and a change in wire identification colours. The rest of the design can be identical!! (this is specifically for electrical designs) Basically even if its all true whats being claimed here and MW has ripped of someones idea then it means you really dont have a leg to stand on. As only PARTS of the design may have some form of similarity... However its unlikely what is being claimed here is actually fact. Im sure MW put a but more thought into an investment worth millions then a vague description sent in an email. Sorry mate you have no case

Edited September 11, 2005 by dr_teeth

[joz]

Alright MickeyD, I give up, who are you? So far I've got Mobiles at Movieworld, went to ops, got to a mid management level there and have left recently. I can't for the life of me pick it...

[Gazza]

I dont think anyone here really came up with the idea for a superman themed coaster anyway, Six Flags have been building them for years. Anyone who has suggested a ride like that on here (Including myself) have probably drawn inspiration from the rides at SF parks.

[Ian]

Let me shed some light on superman. The boss and the CEO of WVTP were both in southern california last year riding all the new rides and when they rode xcellerator at knotts they were blown away. So thats where it came from then I would say at a guess that they had a meeting with WB burbank and Intamin coasters and thats how the Superman theme and design was born.

[Midge]

At the time of my friend sending designs to MW he had never been to an overseas park. His experience was only of the GC parks. In fact, still is. I didn't say he had thought of THE Scooby Doo spooky coaster only some features of the ride were identical to his. His design was a Goonies themed ride. In response to the Superman ride, after his email was sent he recieved a couple of responses over 3 weeks saying it had been forwarded to the appropriate departments, then finally an email saying MW was not looking to build a Superman ride as there were overseas parks already building Superman rides. He still has the emails.

[Slick]

Well show us then.

[thunder001]

Sorry to say that your friend has not a leg to stand on as far as claiming that the idea was his. As it was mentioned, a design only has to differ by 10% to avoid any copyright problems, and this is for most items in construction. And for your claims to be true, then your friend has thought of a ride design 2 years ahead of when the first rocket coaster was ever built, so I think that you might be dreaming of this a bit.....