Lethal Weapon truely LETHAL!

[mickey_079]

Awww leave me alone lol. Nah I didn't check the six flags site. When I read it was Vekoma I thought something didn't seem right because if it was Vekoma it was the smoothest Vekoma coaster I have been on... and we all know Vekoma isn't all to smooth. Lol sorry about that. Thanks for correcting me

[Brownie]

My ears got a good bashing when I rode it a few weeks back, where as my sis had a fine ride. Different strokes I guess.

Edited March 4, 2007 by Brownie

[ILUV SUPERMAN ESCAPE]

I have an annual pass and I was really looking forward to Lethal weapon , but now I won't be too thrilled next time i ride it. BUT I WILL BE THRILLED TO GO ON SUPERMAN ESCAPE OBVIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 11, 2007 by ILUV SUPERMAN ESCAPE

[aidan]

[downunder]

I find I don't have a problem if I keep my head back, though it helps that my head is mostly above the restraints. On my last two visits I have only ridden in the front so I don't know if it is better there, from a heading banging perspective. It's still a reasonably good ride but it would be nice if they modified the restraints a bit for rider comfort.

[billyb67]

I went on it about 30 times in the last week and found the back seats to be alot smoother than the front for some reason. WHich is the opposite to Superman where the front is the smoothest and the back is rougher as per usual for most coasters. Pretty sure it was the blue car they were running last week. You DO definitely have to keep your head back but you will be very lucky if you can escape Lethal Weapon without bashing your ears at least once.....

[Gold Coaster]

Or tall.

[BNErider]

There's Tony's wit we've come to love.

[T-bone]

There is not much you can really do for Lethal Weapon's track work to make it a "Smooth" ride. The most you can do without a decent budget for it is keep maintaining the ride by replacing wheels, greasing certain parts of the ride and just making sure it runs seamlessly. For the headbanging issue to be fixed on Lethal Weapon and other SLC's for that matter is some new coaster trains, with some newly designed restraints, as Lets face it, Lethal Weapons restraints are the problem here. If your short, your ears will be bleeding at the end of the ride, it your tall, well your shoulders will hurt from the restraints. But as said on other pages, the problem with Lethal Weapon (and any Vekoma ride for that matter, just look at Reptar's over excessive OSTR restraints) is the Restraint.

[Gazza]

^Agreed, though a cheaper fix could be just to replace the wheel assemblies with spring loaded ones, and as T-Bone said change the restraints. It could be hard for the park to justify this expense though since it wont do much else other than make the people who ride it happier, maybe if it were packaged with perhaps a theming upgrade and new effects then they could market the ride as a better version then.

[Swanny]

Do you think that maybe some padding on the restraints could make it more comfortable for riders? Not that you would stop hitting yours ears, but they would be hitting soft padding...

[T-bone]

I personally don't think that some soft padding on the restraint would work too well. I do think that they need to get some of the re-designed trains on the ride. Just a question though for anyone who has ridden the ride recently, is it only the Blue still on the track? When I was there I noticed that the red train was no where in sight, and I have heard some reports on what is happening, but just want to make sure that the train is not there anymore before I spill the beans.

[Richard]

The Vekoma trains are utter garbage. From a track point of view, there is no reason that the ride can't be just as smooth as any B&M for instance. Spring-loading the guide wheels won't fix a whole lot as the bulk of the problems come from the bogies which simply can't track properly on the rapid layout SLCs are known for, causing the jolting. The trains are trailered with fixed axles like the old Arrow Corkscrew trains (see Cyclone, Corkscrew), which basically means that each row of seats has a single set of wheels joined to the previous row via a universal hinge, much like a trailer is hitched to a car. Basically what this means is at any given curved point on the track, the trains are not following the exact curvature of the track, but rather being influenced by the rows in front and behind. Instead of the wheels following the track, they are pulled in such a way to attempt to create the shortest distance possible between where the wheels are now, and where the ones in front are. When turning with a trailer on your car, it will create its own path to attempt to get to be completely parallel with the car, not follow the radius of the turn used by the car to get there. Basically then the track wants to do one thing and the train wants to do another, and for the duration of the ride it's a matter of the train trying to do what it wants to, but being forced to do something else by the track. The rails want each set of wheels to be exactly perpendicular (90º) to the direction of travel in that exact section of track, but the wheels want to be parallel to the sets in front and behind (which, to add problems, are rarely ever perpendicular to each other). The roughness is then caused by the track forcing the train to follow the course. Spring-loaded guide wheels would only help if roughness were caused by the train seeking the outermost rail in curves, which they are, but the banking and curves have been engineered to reduce this to be barely noticeable. Intamin, B&M and other modern coasters have articulated axles, which follow the track regardless of what the row in front or behind want to do, so there none of this shuffling as the train tries to correct itself as at any given moment, the axle is totally perpendicular to the track The easiest fix would be to replace the restraints with something much more forgiving. Riders heads hitting the restraints isn't inherently a problem. Hitting restraints made of hard rubber is on the other hand. Cyclone for example isn't by any means a smooth ride, but its restraings are soft enough that it's not in any way an uncomfortable or painful ride. The most logical and long-term solution would be for Vekoma to finally sort out a train that is up to the engineering and comfort standards of B&M or Intamin. Every few years they unveil new trains for retrofitting, but until they articulate the axles it'll fall short of what's needed to make them truly smooth rides. There's a reason every park out there with an SLC hasn't jumped at their newer trains; and you can guarantee that providing a smoother ride is very much in their interests financially when you factor in insurance premiums etc.

[BNErider]

Thanks Richard. You've explained it good.

[Churros]

In response to T-Bone. The other train isn't completely there. Some of it seems to be in pieces in its old hanging bay, but it really hasn't been seen for some time now.

[Gazza]

I can sort of half get what you are saying (I had thought spring loading would help since all the wheels don't touch the track at all times which would have to contribute a bit) Basically, are B&M/Intamins smoother because the wheel assemblies on each side of the train can twist indepentently and are completely separate (like the wheels on shopping trolleys) whereas on a Vekoma/Arrow the wheels on each side of the train are always parallel and in the same relative position because the assemblies share a mechanical linkage?

Edited July 15, 2007 by Gazza

[Richard]

That's more or less it. The orientation of the bogies on an Intamin/B&M is dictated only by the track it's touching. Its rotation point is is at its own centre, which is at the centre of the track. The Vekoma/Arrow rotation point is about the hinged point between cars and so what the assembly wants to do is at any given time a left to right movement rather than rotation. In this image, it shows a very extreme example of the effect of trailering. The green line is the hinge point (perpendicular to the track), the red line is the axle behind it showing the effects of trailering while the blue line is how an articulated axle will be oriented. In reality the curve is never that tight and the distance between is a fraction of that, but it shows how there is disagreement between the train and the track. Because riders are directly fixed to this point, they feel every movement made by the bogies as the train rounds turns. Rider movement and bogie moviement on Intamins and B&Ms are two independent things. Rotation of the bogies to follow the track happens without influencing rider movements unlike on Vekomas. Spring loaded wheels help ease the train through a turn, but any well designed coaster should be able to provide the same quality ride without them; their benefits largely lie in the long-term maintenance of the ride. They are often cited as the single defining factor in a coaster being smooth but in reality it all basically comes down to good track design and comfortable trains. Superman Escape for instance is a well engineered coaster in every way, but its restraints can cause an uncomfortable ride (I believe Intamin rushed these through as a quick remedy for their previous restraint problems, but that's a matter for another topic). The SLC has very well designed layout that you'll find Werner Stengel's company had involvement in, but it's let down by rubbish trains and even worse restraints.

[saberon]

Intamin over shoulder restraint (OSR) was designed to provide the safety of over shoulder restraint but with the freedom (illusion) of movement that a lapbar provides. The main point on contact on this design is down on the lap, where as other more standard restraints use the shoulders as main point of contact. Intamin OSR in most circumstances shouldn't ever make contact with the shoulders except when there are strong negative G forces where the the rider is lifted by airtime and requires the restraint to do as named. The fault in design as was mentioned is when the rollercoaster has lateral force effects because the restaint crosssection is a very shallow elipse sitting horizontally, which is comfortable on the shoulder by if your neck is forced against it can be very uncomfortable. Personally i find if you hold the handgrips tight enough you don't have a problem. It means though u can't throw ur arms up!!! Probably wouldn't be tremendously hard to alter the design slightly. Also regarding leathal weapon. Queueing on it was HORRIBLE. The second train is in pieces and alot of the parts are missing, probably going to be replaced by the look of things, but they need to get hurrying on as the ride's capacity using 1 train is horrid.

[BNErider]

Yeah it is bad. But last time I was there, someone made the doors shut (and they wouldn't open) and 50+ people were on the other side of the door, which meant ques were short, but you couldn't get to the ride area. Lucky I was there to save the day and opened the door But it did hurt when it closed in my face the first time...

[Jake69]

I rode lethal weapon on tuesday on the blue train in the back seat and it was all good until the bottom of the first hill. It was then headbanging the whole way until the last helix...where it stopped and then started again when the train started to change levels again. Something really needs to be done to fix this ride...it had the longest line of all the rides and it was the worst by far...

[Gazza]

The whole topic of what causes roughness raises some interesting questions. -If all B&Ms of the same type use the same systems, then why are rides like Scream less smooth than comparable B&Ms? -Why do steel coasters "get rough" as time goes on, surely the consumable components such as wheels would be regularly replaced, and the mechanical components of the ride would all stay in the same relative position. Therefore no opportunities should arise that would allow the ride not to follow its path properly or vibrate too much. -Why do Vekoma keep making the same mistakes in each of their train redesigns, and instead just use articulated axles?

[Churros]

Churros will help you out Gazza...

-If all B&Ms of the same type use the same systems, then why are rides like Scream less smooth than comparable B&Ms?

I think the question is "what is smooth?" The problem here is that you are comparing it to another state of being 'smooth'. Would you consider Scream smooth compared to non-B&Ms? Another aspect I would say is that it probably has something to do with the track layout if what Richard is saying is correct.

-Why do steel coasters "get rough" as time goes on, surely the consumable components such as wheels would be regularly replaced, and the mechanical components of the ride would all stay in the same relative position. Therefore no opportunities should arise that would allow the ride not to follow its path properly or vibrate too much.

Again Gazza, it is a state of mind, if you expect the ride to be rougher than it really is, it will be smooth. If you expect it to be smoother than it is, it will be rough. As time goes on you tend to become accustomed to the degree of smoothness and gradually it seems rougher. It is similar to the way in which Superman Escape's launch gets slower if you go regularly. Give it a break for some time. When you return it is lightning quick again. Obviously, no major changes have been made, but your body has forgotten how quick it goes. Is there any particular coaster you are refering to with this question?

-Why do Vekoma keep making the same mistakes in each of their train redesigns, and instead just use articulated axles?

Absolutely no idea. You will have to ask Vekoma.

[Gazza]

I think the question is "what is smooth?" The problem here is that you are comparing it to another state of being 'smooth'. Would you consider Scream smooth compared to non-B&Ms? Another aspect I would say is that it probably has something to do with the track layout if what Richard is saying is correct.

Scream is defintley smooth compared to non B&Ms. The point I was making was that all the other B&Ms i had ridden on my trip felt the same, but scream just rumbled a fair bit and jerked in a few places. Its smoothness was an issue raised when the ride opened: all the other floorless coasters out there are super smooth, but this one was a definite step down, so I was merely asking Richo if he had any idea as to why this would be the case. The issue was actually mentioned in this thread, ive dug it up for you: http://www.parkz.com.au/forums/in...3&hl=scream

[Gazza]

Just a bit of an update, Wallibi in Belgium is trialling the new seating design, looks to be much more comfortable IMO.

[Derwan]

Just a bit of an update, Wallibi in Belgium is trialling the new seating design, looks to be much more comfortable IMO.

Lethal Weapon has been closed for the last few weeks for "annual maintenance". Maybe they're doing something to the seats? (We can only hope!) Re-opens this weekend.