Has Wonderland got a future

[Wonderland Operator]

:twisted: Okay Guys and Gals if you found this forum by using www.themeparkinsider.com then you have seen the online debate about Wonderlands future if you have any opinions or inside info please submit it here for our consideration. For the rest of you you can check out the other forum by using the website i mentioned above. to get to the forum click on the news link and then re: new ride for wonderland sydney. Some signs from inside the park seem to point towards Wonderland Sydney closing its gates for the final time on 1st February 2003.

[muke]

On the themepark insider forum, someone said that the bush beast was closed indefinately - were they referring to the beastie, coz some of my friends went to wonderland a few days ago and went on the bush beast....i assume it is still open :?:

[Wonderland Operator]

:twisted: I said bush beast was closed indefinately and i wasn't talking about beastie , beastie is gone for good ! Bush beast was Unexpectedly closed for a week for some unplanned trackwork and was reopened on Friday, at the time i posted about its closure we were not informed of why it was closed or how long it would be closed for. It wasn't until it was opened on Friday that we Knew it was Opening. Thank you for taking the time to check the story on the other forum. It has now been archived and won't allow me to reply to the posts about kiddie rides but if James has seen the requirements to ride the rides he has mentioned he should realise that unless you are tall for your age you would be at least 9 years old to ride these rides leaveing the three i mentioned for the Kiddies under these ages. We often get abused by guests expecting to have the former compliment of HB rides for thier young kiddies to ride only to find ( after coughing up for entry ) that they no longer exist.

[muke]

Good stuff, I'm glad the Bush Beast is open again. I was hoping what u said would happen, so is the BB okay now?

[Wonderland Operator]

Despite the bush beast undergoing some track repair it is still a rough ride. they only replaced the bottom of the first drop not the entire track like it needs.

[Richard]

Personally, I'd like to see the whole ride knocked down. The ride design isn't paced well, and it, as well as the rides it was a clone of, are generally spoekn of fizzers. It has some good points, but none are anything that you don't find on other standard wooden coasters. Still - I can't argue that the ride is any less that fun. Wouldn't you agree that it would be a bit pointless to continue upgrading their facilities, in this manner, if they were to close for good, in under about 4 months? Just one of the many many good arguments against this rumour.

[muke]

It does seem strange that Wonderland is doing all this work, however, since Wonderland Sydney traces is control back to Sunway we realise that Wonderland will never all of a sudden collapse since there is a huge corporation behind them. Wonderland will probably simply become unviable - with like a "4 month" deadline to shape up or closure. * * * However * * * Wonderland made a statement a few months ago stating that insurance was not a problem, as we all know this doesn't make sense - money is not a problem, there is a huge company behind Wonderland, yet they are having terrible human relations problems, an there is a rumour of closure. I don't think the park, in retrospect, will close, they are probably staying tight lipped about the future of the park, are having problems with Industrial relations, an the employee relations are very low- damn that sux - hopefully WLS can pull themselves outta this one. I think Wonderland is going through change like many businesses, some cope well, an others, like WLS not so well. We'll see in a few months time either way.

[Richard]

Well, I stand by my claims, which are backed by statistics and figures, that Wonderland is performing at the forefront of Australian theme parks. They are attracting crowds that make the park not just viable or profitable, but it is performing well above expected. Wonderland has said they're building a 'Wonderland Business Park' over the next few years. I say, that this would be pointless, especially with such a name, without the Wonderland Theme Park also operating. The selling point of this Business Park will undoubtedly be the exclusive use of the theme park at non-public times. It isn't a case of Wonderland being given a period of time to shape up or disappear, the park has developed tremendously over the past few years, and attendance has reflected this improvement in park quality. I don't think the park has poor public relations. Quite the contrary, they always give out information freely without any problems, unless they've been instructed to keep hush-hush, such as with the forthcoming thrill ride that was confirmed last year (nothing since, however), or who knows, though highly unlikely, the eventual demise of Wonderland Sydney as a Theme Park. :?:

[muke]

I agree, WLS is consolidating following customer demand an is reintroucing all the best features of any park, extene trading hours, and ade attractions. My point to human relations is in regard to the industrial dispute a while ago which has been forgotten, which is good. I hope a new ride is built soon, I'm feeling a little deprived, like the rest of us.

[Wonderland Operator]

This isn't the first time a park has done "upgrade" work in the months before it closed its doors , there is a post on theme park insider from a previous employee of segaworld sydney who stated sega done the same in the months before it closed. As for Wonderland being backed by a big business , why is it that Sunway seems to distance themselves from International theme parks ( I T P ) when I T P is the registered business name for Wonderland. It seems that the business park you speak of is intended to be built on the park. The new ride they announced last year has been announced every year for the past three years and still no new ride ...... seems to staff that this is just a management ploy to boost staff morale and get some free publicity. Richard i can see by your statistics and figure that what you say seems correct but your figures come from park management ... the same people that have been saying the new ride is coming and we are still waiting for the ride so how acurate are the statistics your recieving. What i see is that the numbers are down , my statistics are based on daily ride visitors to the rides that i operate. We are currently in school holidays and rides like Space probe are only seeing 50% of the vistor numbers it recieved for the same holiday period last year despite the aggresive advertising campaign and discounts offered thru local newspapers. I think that muke put it best "Wonderland will probably simply become unviable - with like a 4 month deadline to shape up or closure. "

[muke]

I have a question and a statement: 1) Whats happening on frightfest? On WLSs website the link goes to a page about Disco Montego Featuring Katie Underwood. I thought there was going to be more of a 'fright' factor with this event? 2) I saw something interesting on WLS promotions webpage. Some of Wonderland's promotions do not expire until way after february 2003. This is another point against the park closing - aren't there laws that bind these sorts of promotions - thus if Wonderland intended to wind up or go out of business they would not be able to create promotions that ran out after closure. I know this point is not strong (as i do not know the laws governing this type of activity) but its something to think about... muke

[Wonderland Operator]

I dont know what you saw about fright fest but there has been no internal promotion for a fright fest and it no longer exists on promotions page http://www.----URL removed for non-compliance with Community Guidelines----/funzone/promo.../promotions.cfm . As for the legality of advertising promotions after Feb 2003 ... how do you prosecute a company that doesn't exist any longer. After a company closes its doors all you can do is sell assets to pay off creditors (see Ansett) and wonderlands only assets is the rides. The land belongs to Sunway who seem to have themselves distanced from wonderland using the paper company International theme parks pty ltd. My conclusion is that if WLS closes its doors in Ansett style then its creditors will only be able to sell its rides to recover debts leaving sunway free to develop the land for thier business park.

[joz]

Wonderland Op: You have no idea how theme park chains work do you? Movieworld Seaworld and Wet 'n' Wild are owned by Village Roadshow. But the theme parks are still a separate company (Warner Village Theme Parks). Wonderland is owned by Sunway and Worldwide Holdings, and is under a separate company called International Theme Parks. Its exactly the same sort of set up. If Wonderland went bust, then International theme parks would be charged. Your theory that if Wonderland went bust it would be like Ansett is also misguided. If Sunway went bust it would be like Ansett, because then there'd be no company to go back to. But if Wonderland went bust, Sunway would still have to pay up, (through International theme parks, but Sunway would still be left with the bill). And finally, one thing I really don't get; You seem convinced that Wonderland attendance is going down, and there are going to close their doors unless there is an improvement, so why are you trying to convince people not to go? You were really quick to say that Bush Beast was closed, but you never told us when the ride opened again. Your telling us not to buy season passes, and that Wonderland is hardly worth a visit any more. What do you want to achieve by this? Personally, if my work was going under, and my job was at risk, I'd be trying to get as many people as I could to go. What's this about management telling staff about new rides and not delivering? Another point about theme parks when it comes to new attractions: They change there mind very easily. Half of the new attractions I hear about from management at the park I work at are never built. I've even heard management talk about 1 attraction only to come out a few months later and announce a different attraction for the same bit of land. Just think, Dolphin Cove opened in 1997 and was announced to staff as a new attraction for 1994. Get over it man, if Wonderland said that the grass is green, you'd probably take that as a hint that the park is looking at the land so they can close Wonderland.

[Wonderland Operator]

I get that wonderland is a seperate company but when you look under the surface of the company names you find that the paper trail isn't what it seems. That was the point i was making! As for Sunway being charged (criminaly) the papertrail protects sunway because wonderland is operated as a seperate company.The creditors will be paid thru asset sales.and please remember that this is only a theory based on my experiences as a staff member and some research on the company. I am not trying to stop people from going and haven't advised anyone against buying a season pass , i believe that people should be advised of the rides that are not operating before forking out thier hard earned cash to get in the gate. The reopening of bush beast wasn't anything to get excited about as any recent park visitor can testify it has been closed for so many hours each operating day that i wonder why they opened it at all.For example todays operating hours specify that BB was to be open for 5hrs of the 5hrs BB was closed for 2hrs with no explanation give to the paying guests unless they were trapped in the train. This is only one ride from a whole park is the response i am expecting so i will proceed to say that it wasn't the only ride closure during the day without explanation.

[Richard]

They took a ride down for rehab, and its taking a bit to get it back into top running condition. There is not a ride I know that is able to bounce right back from rehab, and perform as a ride that has been operating in its current state for an extended period of time. Tower of Terror experienced a large spell of downtime, over several days, after recent rehab. Giant Drop has been similar. Same with new rides, as just like after rehab, it takes time to warm up to any changes Cyclone was quite moody for much of the summer, it was having lift and sensor problems. Scooby-Doo Spooky Coaster was down for much of the Media day. We were told to come back later. Guess what - little to no communication was made for either when it was down. Not only would guests loose faith in the park or ride's safety, but 99% of the time, they don't really care about the problems, or they simply wouldn't understand. I've found myself before, watching Tower of Terror's car being winched back in with a cable, because the sensors aren't letting them bring it back with the magnets, explaining to people who were obviously wondering what was happening, using language that they were unfamiliar with. (They usually end up more confused than before after I've finished with them. ) Guests who want to know, will enquire with somebody on duty. It is expected up here, from the park's view, that they give as simple yet accurate answer as possible. Surely you would be instructed to do the same at Wonderland, or at least it would be common sense. I severly doubt the park is instructing you specifically to be hush-hush about this sort of thing. Last time I was at Wonderland Sydney, they were having troubles with the buzzbars on Bush Beast. After a lot of excess 'buzzes', and some rather frustrated ride operators (quite understandable under the circumstances), they closed the ride down, at about 2pm, meaning the ride had 3 ours of 'unscheduled' downtime. Somewhat related, but quite interesting I think: I consider Wonderland Sydney, in its current state, to someone like me (a thrill ride enthusiast), a 5 or 6 hour park, before the park gets uninteresting. The park operates the standard 7 hour day (10-5). I'd consider Dreamworld a 7 hour park, because of the wide variety of thrill rides. This doesn't mean that guests get ripped off, because there isn't necessarily a true full day of fun available in the park. You must remember that the park is only $46.20 to enter, as opposed to $54 for all the parks up here. That is only 85% of the cost of a day at a park here. And what is 85% of a 7 hour day? It is under 6 hours. The park is therefore, the most valuable. Needless to say, this is also not including the warmer months, where you could easily fill a full day with the waterpark combined with the theme park. A family with younger children could easily fill a full day of activities at Wonderland Sydney, with the wide variety of shows, as well as rides, wildlife park, and the waterpark if available. A family with younger and older children (say, 5, 9 and 14), would probably struggle to do everything that is offered, while remaining as a family group.

[Wonderland Operator]

Park policy at wonderland is to tell the guests that the ride is closed for refurbishment regardless of the reason for the closure. this explanation is hard to explain to a guest who's son is currently stuck in the carriage of a train on our rollercoaster while the maintenance crew try to restart the ride. I could understand if the problems being experienced now were in some way related to the downtime but the section of track replaced can in no way affect any other part of the ride as it is only timber and steel , none of the rides electrical or mechanical systems were replaced or modified in any way. The problems the ride is having now relate directly to the age of the rollercoaster and a desperate need for full refurbishment not just the current method of fix it only when it cant be patched up. You seem to know a bit about the workings of rides so you should be aware that to fix the buzzbar problem all you need to do is replace the solenoid that locks and unlocks the lapbar with a new item and the problem will be solved for a reasonable period of time. to replace the solenoid on the BB takes approx 10 mins so why did they close the ride for 3hours.

[Psycho]

Actually I've always found Wonderland to be good with telling patrons information when attractions are down. Also, Fear Fest is still on November 2nd

[Wonderland Operator]

psycho you must be lucky enough to be at wonderland when operators that are fed up with trying to peddle BS to guests that know we are full of crap are standing outside the closed rides. I along with a few other operators tell the guests the truth despite wonderlands policy. Fortunately for Wonderland most people dismiss us as still telling them BS or we would be seeing a story on tv affairs programs about the true state of thing at wonderland.

[thunder001]

Wonderland Op. I don't question ppls rumors as I have had some of my own go north on me, but I see no hard evidence that the park would close it's doors. True the park is downsizing, but this could be because they believe that the park is just to large. Maybe by doing this now it allows the park the room to expand in bigger ways. The new ride that we have been told about could require the park to change the layout of the park. Or the long term plans for the park are to expand in a certain direction, so they are getting ready for that now. The new styles of coasters that are available today require a large area of land for their footprint, so in my opion, that park is just getting ready for something big. For someone who is ment to be "employed" by the park, I am wondering just how much of the truth you are listing to. It is ppl like you that we don't need working at the theme parks in Aust. The ppl who work at these parks are generally happy to be there and are pleased that they work in such a happy enviroment, around happy holiday makers. They don't need to go to the park and find the staff to be, and to quote yourself, "Feed Up". The only job that I had, where I felt like that, I quit as soon as I started to feel that way. As Richard will state, I am normal a quite person, but I can not stand someone who cannot back up their clams. By the way, you mentioned a buzzbar and a solenoid in the one sentance. So correct me if I'm wrong here Richo, but to my now how, the two should never be near each other in a million years. Soleniods are normally run of a controll circuit that is reduced to 24volts as all a soleniod is (in general) is a switch. A buzzbar is a large peice of copper bar or wire that is used to carry the power from the load side of the main switch to the line side of the other circuit protection devices. I have never heard of a buzzbar being connected to a soleniod. Not in my 10years as an electrical engineer anyway.

[Darren]

After my last visit to Wonderland (about a year ago) I was very disapointed in the standard and the upkeep of their rides. The Bush Beast is the worst woodie Iv'e been on. The brakes after the first drop and turn, where you virtually stop before going down the second drop is embarassing to say the least. It's roughness and lack of speed make it a ride you don't want to go on many times. The Demon, while being an okay ride is oring after two or three rides. When I was in America I discovered that the Demon is a standard verkoma boomerang that is found in nearly every park. They were all walk on rides with no queue. After Luna Park lost the Big Dipper to Dreamworld, Wonderland now has all the NSW market. Wonderland has to build a top coaster and soon.

[thunder001]

If you wish for it, it will come. That is all I can say.

[Wonderland Operator]

Ok guys it seems that wonderland may have a future : There has been some very positive signs over the christmas period including the successful Jungle Jive show and some general improvements to aesthetics around the park. Another point that guests probably wouldn't notice is that Wonderland has done a major upgrade to security and safety procedures. All the above things has had a positive affect on staff morale which is another plus for the park. Guest numbers during the holiday period were high , this shows staff that wonderland is starting to regain the faith of sydneysiders and the visitors to sydney. Only other update is that a tiger will soon be added to the spellbinding sorcery show.

[Psycho]

Has anyone heard anything about how Wonderland's late Saturday night trading is working out? Has it been relatively successful? I've been to the park twice on Saturday nights since they resumed trading late, and they seem to get pretty reasonable crowds?

[Wonderland Operator]

Saturday night trading is doing well with great crowds we are to expect it to continue as long as weather permits and crowds stay strong. Today was the last day for the shrek appearance at wonderland Kermit has been seen in the form of a stuffed toy at the games maybe the start of something bigger!

[Guest Cokecool]

I thank Wonderland needs more flat rides(I.E. Top Spin, Frisbee, Inverter, ETC.), and a nice stand-up coaster. Intamin would make a cheap, but good stand-up for wonderland.