The Off Topic Topic

[colliric_855]

To use a theme park analogy, replacing a Cinema screen that is indoors is like LPM taking down the Metropolis and putting something else in....

Pretty "easy" to do...

But replacing a Cinema Screen that is outdoors at a drive-in is like if Warner Brothers decided to replace Superman Escape with a new ride.... It's gonna cost a heck of a lot more, and a major critical attraction would be out for a relatively long time.... costing alot of money in lost business. And that's the biggest reason you WON'T ever see an outdoor screen run a current-tech RealD film... ironically Screens, especially big outdoor drive-in ones, cost alot more than projectors, and Dolby3D just needs that new projector.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Its funny you should rabbit on about the cost of replacing the outdoor screen so much - i'm not aware of the screen materials in melbourne, but i've seen drive-ins in Sydney and Brisbane and the screens aren't much more than perforated (and corrugated) metal painted white. I wouldn't imagine they'd need 'bulldozers' or 'wrecking crews' to attach a new surface to an existing structure. A crane maybe... that'd be about it.

Now just a friendly warning because you so very obviously aren't aware - but someone who may or may not have already spoken to you about this is quite an expert when it comes to projection technology - having managed a facility with one of the widest projection screens on the gold coast. (Not me)

So remember what i told you about opinion, and disclaiming your views, and think very carefully before you say another word which might get shot down in flames, and many people extremely pissed off with your crap.

[colliric_855]

Its funny you should rabbit on about the cost of replacing the outdoor screen so much - i'm not aware of the screen materials in melbourne, but i've seen drive-ins in Sydney and Brisbane and the screens aren't much more than perforated (and corrugated) metal painted white. I wouldn't imagine they'd need 'bulldozers' or 'wrecking crews' to attach a new surface to an existing structure. A crane maybe... that'd be about it. So remember what i told you about opinion, and disclaiming your views, and think very carefully before you say another word which might get shot down in flames, and many people extremely pissed off with your crap.

Unfortunately I have actually formally studied this shit(Cinema, in an Advanced Diploma), And on large screens like they have in Driveins, which are larger than standard screens, much larger, it's always easier to bring in the wrecking crew and rebuild the entire structure from scratch, than it is to install a new surface using a crane. You see, they have to make sure it's 100% smooth and the structure can handle the weight of it. The actual structure actually is the entire Screen itself, and so replacing it would require at least the removal of everything but the supports(which I guess may not have to be gotten rid of, so yes a Crane could be used in that situation where the supports are ok to continue to use). And as I said, RealD doesn't work(well enough) outdoors anyway, so no one has ever done it and most likely unless the tech changes, no one will ever bother doing it because it would look, frankly, shit. Frankly I'm gonna say it, if he is a projection expert(by his experience as opposed to my studies in Film industry technology), he SHOULD have known that realD IS affected by the environment and is not able to be used outdoors. Edited May 30, 2013 by colliric_855

[rappa]

Thanks for the 3D for Dummies explanation. If I wanted to read Wikipedia style facts and information I would go there. There is a counter argument for all of your points but I can't be stuffed. But I will point out that in no way does any of your post prove 'it doesn't work outdoors' Please don't try and teach me how projection works... I shouldn't have to say more

[colliric_855]

Thanks for the 3D for Dummies explanation. If I wanted to read Wikipedia style facts and information I would go there. There is a counter argument for all of your points but I can't be stuffed. But I will point out that in no way does any of your post prove 'it doesn't work outdoors' Please don't try and teach me how projection works... I shouldn't have to say more

I'm not, I'm saying that just because you know how it all works, doesn't necessarily mean you know the technical limitations as well as you possibly should. And you seem to be talking theoretically rather than practically in your assertion that it may work outdoors, where as obviously I'm saying it practically doesn't work outdoors. Edited May 31, 2013 by colliric_855

[rappa]

Just LOL at the above. Not even going to touch it. But you enjoy your little world of being a self professed expert. I'd better get back to learning everything I should know as a Head of Projection Maybe my best friend who's a cinema manager could help me haha

[colliric_855]

Just LOL at the above. Not even going to touch it. But you enjoy your little world of being a self professed expert. I'd better get back to learning everything I should know as a Head of Projection Maybe my best friend who's a cinema manager could help me haha

Honestly though? you don't really "need" to know it.. The technical department does. It's good for projectionists to know this stuff from the "hobby" point of view, but it's really the people who make the investment decisions that need to know it. All you gotta do is work the machine well. I'm sure you're pretty good at that stuff and not at all like the guy who took 5 times restarting a film at Palace Balwyn before I finally got through to him that Digital French films do actually ship with Subtitles that need to be loaded seperatly. Yeah it was the French Film Festival and the Proj needs to load up new films each sedsion, but taking 5 restarts was disgracefully incompetent, in the 5 restarts he stuffed up in every possible way a Projectionist could stuff up. Took him 45 minutes to get it right. Edited May 31, 2013 by colliric_855

[Gazza]

Honestly though? you don't really "need" to know it.. The technical department does.

All you've done is make yourself look stupid.

[colliric_855]

All you've done is make yourself look stupid.

Meh fine, Also happen to be right. But Yeah guess I can be one of those "asshole customers who thinks 'the customers always right'"... Honestly that Projectionist was shocking, didn't once come into the Cinema itself and actually look at what the audience was complaining about. Oh well at least I got to see the first 5 minutes of Silver Linings Playbook for free!!! Edited May 31, 2013 by colliric_855

[JacobSibbald]

Why would you bother arguing over it if you know you're wrong. Why would you argue with someone who is an expert (or so he says) in this? I honestly don't know why a group of adults can not get over someone's mistakes and just thank him for presenting new information to us all.

[Gazza]

Meh fine, Also happen to be right.

Nope, I'd say the other guy, who has worked his entire career in the field in a hands on manner, to this day, would be right

[colliric_855]

Nope, I'd say the other guy, who has worked his entire career in the field in a hands on manner, to this day, would be right

...and as the links I provided showed, you would be wrong. Edited May 31, 2013 by colliric_855

[rappa]

I'm only keeping this going because it's the off topic thread. Jacob, not sure who you were directing things at but I'm not wrong, and he's not wrong either in his information. Where he is wrong in making hard facts instead of arguments and then taking me to task on my responses. RWC where did I say I was a cinema projectionist?? I am head of a technical department and make design and purchasing decisions on complex and expensive projection systems as only one component of my job. Whilst I don't expect you to know this, it's always unwise to patronize and talk down to people you don't know. You presented good information and I never disputed it as wrong, rather stated it was not completely correct. Unfortunately you have spent a lot of time on this site talking out of your ass on this website and have been caught out time and time again despite claiming to be an expert. So you're going to have a hard time convincing many people that you're knowledgable now. As for your cinema experience you may not be aware that it's rare for any multiplex cinema to even have a projectionist anymore. They will have a technician responsible for every single thing in the complex and normal staff (like candybar) will lace up films and run sessions. In a digital complex the process is almost completely automated now.

[colliric_855]

I'm only keeping this going because it's the off topic thread. As for your cinema experience you may not be aware that it's rare for any multiplex cinema to even have a projectionist anymore. They will have a technician responsible for every single thing in the complex and normal staff (like candybar) will lace up films and run sessions. In a digital complex the process is almost completely automated now.

A projectionist is the person who laces up and runs the film, and is supposed to supervise sessions, so yes they are just usually trained staff members these days. Even Digital Cinemas still must have a projectionist, even if they don't use that specific title anymore, do other things in the cinema and most of their Job is automated. So no, I was not unaware of that. In fact that(automation) became common in the 80s and 90s before Digital Cinema came in(loaded, and correctly framed, film would auto rewind and then play again at the appropriate time). I think you thought I was referring to a single theatre old school "load up every film" proj(with Projection association initials in a formal title) like the guy that runs the Astor, but I wasn't. Edit: The guy was just plain incompetent and because it was a "special oneoff unautomated festival screening" it just wasn't properly setup to deal with the different framesize and subtitles. He literally refused the first few times to come into the cinema itself to see what exactly was going wrong.... And then even put on Silver Linings Playbook... First time that's ever happened to me, and probably everyone in that cinema. Edited May 31, 2013 by colliric_855

[rappa]

One question... Was it 35mm or digital? And for everyone else, no that's not how a modern cinema operates and also no film doesn't 're wind itself and play again'. I'm not going to argue this with RWC but just in case anyone else is interested wanted you to have the correct info.

[Reanimated35]

dj, just out of interest, with the digital ones, is it basically just a larger scale of playing a .mkv through vlc on a computer? (I hope that makes sense)

also do you know how they get the files sent between countries for the film? "digital copies" I mean, are they sent on disk, hdd, downloaded from a server somewhere?

[rappa]

Delivery can vary depending on lead time etc so yes all of the above for how they 'get' the files. It's a very complex file management and security and licensing system. You can't for instance just grab the files and play them at home. They can't even play them at will in the cinema. Every screening is tracked and must be purchased. The encryption goes right the way trough to the projector so you can't even hijack the video signals. Everything is run through a cinemas management software where all the sessions are scheduled in advance and that couples them with advertising, trailers etc. The extended black pauses between things before the feature is the system switching content and authorizing for that session. No one actually pushes play. That's a summary of a pretty complicated little system that's actually quite interesting.

[colliric_855]

One question... Was it 35mm or digital? And for everyone else, no that's not how a modern cinema operates and also no film doesn't 're wind itself and play again'. I'm not going to argue this with RWC but just in case anyone else is interested wanted you to have the correct info.

It was Digital(hence as I said, first issue was the fact he hadn't loaded the Subtitle file up). That festival now used almost 90%-95% digital films. Obviously with 35 the subs would have been "burnt in". And Auto-rewind was there during the ninties. That's why they rarely played more than one film in each cinema.

[Reanimated35]

That's a summary of a pretty complicated little system that's actually quite interesting.

Cheers, so prior to their reasonably recent upgrade, the local cinema must (I assume anyway) have been using film. Anyway, a few years back I was watching a movie and all of the ads at the start were out of sync by 1 (we'll call them slides) slide. Basically the screen might be showing an ad for a golf course but the audio was about sizzler or something. It all came good when there was this one ad that kept the one slide on the screen longer than normal - almost as if it was taking up the space of 2 slides. The ad was a warning about a panther being loose in the centre or something, I can't really remember, question out of all this is, why would they need to have everything out of sync until this one ad came on? And no it wasn't just a glitch on that day, it was the same issue across multiple movies and they were all fixed during that one ad. Weird things are weird

[rappa]

That platter system which was in most cinemas did set the film ready to go again rather than have to re wind the rolls but you still needed to lace it up. Closed loop systems existed but most cinemas weren't using them. If your feature was digital and in a normal multiplex it was likely scheduled in advance so wouldn't have been a case of the guy stuffing it up there and then. However I agree with you it's not acceptable.

[colliric_855]

That platter system which was in most cinemas did set the film ready to go again rather than have to re wind the rolls but you still needed to lace it up. Closed loop systems existed but most cinemas weren't using them. If your feature was digital and in a normal multiplex it was likely scheduled in advance so wouldn't have been a case of the guy stuffing it up there and then. However I agree with you it's not acceptable.

Hoyts Chadstone did, certainly after it's 16 Screen upgrade(from 8 screens originally) in 1999. Although it was scheduled in advance, as with most festival films at this festival, they use 1 physical copy and send it to and from each cinema that was running the festival. So not sure how they schedule the film to run specifically, but they certainly don't have it for long in advance of each screening and then send it on to another Palace cinema immediately afterwards. A leftover "tradition" from when they used 35mm prints. Edited May 31, 2013 by colliric_855

[mba2012]

So... Since this is the off topic thread I thought I'd just mention this. According to a billboard outside Dreamworld, Dreamworld is no longer a theme park, but it instead where you can find a theme park. The billboard states "Australia's Biggest theme park: Only at Dreamworld." Another billboard states something else ended with "Only at Dreamworld." Also, as always, no pics from me.

[rappa]

Hmmm sounds like confused identity once again. And as for the message. Wonderland was as big as Disneyland but it was no where near as good.

[jjuttp]

Also with the cinemas, sound wise, does that have to be manually synced or something? When i went to see Iron Man 3 everything was in sync through the ads and trailers, up until G.I. Joe. Being the last trailer to show, just into it it got out of sync, then we lost all sound half way through, and this carried right through to IM. My friend who was with me who used to work at a different cinema chain, said that they have to physically sync it together, and we had to send someone to inform a worker as there was no one in the booth behind us.

[colliric_855]

Also with the cinemas, sound wise, does that have to be manually synced or something? When i went to see Iron Man 3 everything was in sync through the ads and trailers, up until G.I. Joe. Being the last trailer to show, just into it it got out of sync, then we lost all sound half way through, and this carried right through to IM. My friend who was with me who used to work at a different cinema chain, said that they have to physically sync it together, and we had to send someone to inform a worker as there was no one in the booth behind us.

Dolby Digital and DTS use to come on seperate disks early into the Digital cinema era(DTS always shipped on seperate disks, but Dolby shifted over from being on the film print to being on disk). Probably still the case? DJ would know more about it currently. I think they are seperate synced files now? Or does the sound still come seperatly on a physical disk/device? I'm guessing some cinemas would still recieve a physical copy? As I said earlier, the same problem happened to me once with Subtitles on a Digital Foreign film, which also now has to be seperatly loaded and synced. Edited June 2, 2013 by colliric_855