Themeing or Thrills?

[qldtaw]

As much as i love the themeing and story of a ride... In Australia i prefer DW and MW concentrate on the thrill over the theme... Everything comes down to cost... it sounds like MW has secured a larger model of the EL Loco which looks awesome... but maybe this has come at a cost of the themeing and story. Hence this being more of a Six Flags coster... paint it green call it Green Lantern end of story. I guess at the end of the day what would you rather? Themeing or Thrill? Personally i take thrill... we stand no chance in the area of themeing and story on the world stage... have you seen Journey to the Centre of the Earth? That ride coast more money to build then all theme parks and attractions in our entire Country. Their theming budget along could probably build DW and MW in their entirity. If you want core thrill but with just as well thought out and extensive stroy and themeing... you will need to pack your bags and head OS. The most expensive ride ever built in Aus i beleive would be Superman at $12million? Although DW Tower cost more but its 2 rides built over 2 years. Journey alone is $300million.... No comparison.

Edited September 18, 2011 by qldtaw

[Bmull19]

we stand no chance in the area of themeing and story on the world stage

There's no need to compete on the world stage. Most visitors to the parks are domestic. So, because parks with larger attendance who earn a higher revenue can put big attractions in with amazing theming that our parks couldn't ever compete with, we shouldn't still be able to enjoy moderately to well themed attractions in our own backyard?? Doesn't make sense to me. At the end of the day, our parks are competing mainly for the money of local and domestic visitors, not international.

[pin142]

we stand no chance in the area of themeing and story on the world stage

** Looks at Bermuda Triangle in its prime ** Even if we don't ever see "world class" themeing on rides we will get some that will help the asthetics of the ride. Disney are good at what they do because of how long they have been doing it plus they have a whole engineering team around it. I think it is safe to say there will be some sort of themeing to this ride. The video is just a render of what the track will look like and think was left basic incase something happened and they couldn't go Green Lantern. Seeing what is done with things like Fright Nights this year the parks can do decent themeing and be up there with the leaders when it comes to things like that so there is still hope for the rides. I can't see another Scooby level of themeing for a ride but any is better than none at all. Batwing Spaceshot is an example of where a small amount of themeing can be effective.

[joz]

The most expensive ride ever built in Aus i beleive would be Superman at $12million?

Off the top of my head, it would be Wild West Falls which came in at something around $18-$20million. Scooby, Bermuda, ToT were also more expensive than Superman. Personally themeing is all fine and dandy, but I don't really get the point of an overly well themed queue with an elaborate back story that all stops the second you get on the ride, and with an outside coaster, there is always an element of that. Superman works because the story and theme is carried on when you're on the ride, and even the outside coaster bit fits with the story. IMHO, for a coaster like Green Lantern, all the themeing has to do is build excitement for the ride, be pleasant to look at, and be vaguely related to the name of the ride. It doesn't need to set up the back story that crime is out of control and you must help Green Lantern by riding this coaster. Hell the back story that Green Lantern made this extreme thing out of energy and you get to ride it is more than enough story for me. BuzzSaw looks like it struck the right balance to me, and the story on that ride seems more a transition from well themed land to random roller coaster than anything, which is fine and fits the park. That's the thing for me, it does depend on the ride and how the ride fits into the park. If Movie World have gone with thrill over themeing on for Green Lantern I won't be too disappointed. It'd be great if they get the themeing/story level to the Superman/Jet Rescue standard, but I'm OK with them if they don't. On the other hand, if the were to build a shooting dark ride that didn't have a solid story but was just a random collection of scenes and seemingly unrelated targets then that would be very disappointing. Thoughts?

[GoGoBoy]

Yeah I tend to agree with your thoughts joz. I also think pin and Bmull are on the right track. But I definitely disagree with qldtaw. He implies that there has to be a choice between either thrills or good theming... that one has to be sacrificed for the other. Move World have shown us time and time again that this is not the case. The majority of their rides (with the excepting of Batwing) are a perfect blend of thrills and excellent theming. The difference between Dreamworld and Movie World is that MW are happy to spend that extra few million per attraction to really make it top notch. Just look at Superman Escape - while the station and external areas are not much, it has a very effective dark ride sequence that the train travels through before the main launch. And you couldn't say any thrills were sacrificed! I just came back from the US (Orlando in particular) and while the parks were impressive, I can honestly say that many of Movie World's (and Village Parks in general) individual attractions are comparable and in some cases better than the offerings at Disney and Universal. Looney Tunes River Ride and Bermuda Triangle were both world class family dark rides. The theming levels and various elements were absolutely up to standard and in some cases better than the best dark rides at Disney. Then look at something like Wild West Falls - a perfect blend of thrilling elements with a nice amount of theming thrown in (especially when all the effects were working). So as you can see, Village Roadshow have demonstrated to us many times that they are able to build world class attractions with the budget they have. As long as they continue to do this, I'll be happy. They don't need to do more - just maintain the standard. I was a little nervous when Batwing opened and it didn't even have the level of theming joz referred to above. I pray that this is not the new direction... I'm quietly confident it won't be. We don't need $300 million dollar attractions considering what MW can achieve on much smaller budgets. I do agree that Movie World needs MORE attractions however. They have a tendency of replacing attractions rather than keeping what is there and building new ones. I believe the park needs expansion, not just updating. They should have left Gremlins and Looney Tunes operating. I think if they can manage to keep adding these very high quality attractions without removing what is already there, the park would be leaps and bounds ahead of the competition

[Brad2912]

Like most people, i think there is definitely a balance that needs to be achieved, but it again depends on what you want to achieve with the ride and what the ride is Superman Escape for me is perfectly themed. I couldn't really think of anything they could add to the experience to make it better, theme wise (aside from maybe having the cop car and the taxi literally fall into the hole as you are going past with a smoke/fire element). Thrill wise, it is really second to none on the coast. Batwing Space shot has nothing, but i dont mind it that way, as it is surrounded by rides that are well themed, so a standard run of the mill thrill ride fits in well. Bermuda and WWF (When both at 100%) absolutely were World Class. Will we ever see another ride as intricate ?? I doubt it, but providing there is at least some effort to theme, thrill takes precedent (eg. Buzzsaw) I'd say 75% thrill, 25% theme would be how i would rank importance

[qldtaw]

I think Bermuda and Looney Tunes are great rides in comparison to their Disney like companions.... lets say looney tunes Versus. a standard Disney dark ride, like Alice in Wonderland, Monsters Inc. But if you have been on Poohs Honey Hunt at Tokyo Disneyland you would not be saying that any of our attractions come close. Pooh Vs. Wiggles ride on a very basic level have a simialr ride mechanic... but the comparison ends there. Would you compare Bermuda to the Amazing Adventures of Spiderman???

Edited September 18, 2011 by qldtaw

[CruiseSF]

Bermuda is far from the quality of the Amazing Adventures of Spiderman. You really need to see it or the new transformers attraction (using the same system) to really understand the quality of it.

[Gazza]

^Funny you should post that...On Spiderman, we'll exclude the 3D screens and the ride system, since they are what make the ride.. But the actual "Built" sets on Spiderman are incredibly basic when you really pay attention (I did so on my most recent visit, had more time on my hands so did Spiderman a good 7 or so times)...I mean in the Ozcorp warehouse scene there are in fact simple 'cardboard cutout' bits of theming in front of the main screen. Hard to spot, but it's there.And many of the city building façades are 2d. Thinking back to the actual 'real' effects on Spiderman, we can draw some pretty close comparisons with Bermuda. -Bermuda had its fire, spiderman has its fireball. -Bermuda had many sections of dense fog. Spiderman has the foggy sewer, and the cloud of green smoke when you get hit by the anti gravity cannon. -Bermuda had collapsing columns, Spiderman had the collapsing bridge. I'm struggling to think of much else noteworth in the 'real' sections of Spiderman. Haha, I guess the spidey signal gobo was pretty cool. So I guess the actual scenery on Spiderman and Bermuda are probably on par when you think about it. Though i must say, despite having a couple of flaws, HP and the Forbidden Journey raises the bar for everyone now though

Edited September 18, 2011 by Gazza

[JadeMacabreWalters]

I prefer themeing over thrill. I haven't had the pleasure of going to Disney or Universal yet, and I think it's unfair to assume that if people are searching for quality in their rides, then they are required to travel. I'm one of the people who used to queue up for LTRR and batman each time. Even though the rides themselves were pretty rubbish, being inside the library of batman and walking through the caves used to get me excited. Same reason I love scooby as well - walking through the queue lines in the castle is amazing (as is of course themeing in the ride itself). I guess that's why I'll choose movieworld over dreamworld every time.

[Theme Park Girl]

I guess at the end of the day what would you rather? Themeing or Thrill?

Why can't it be a balance of both? I thought the Superman Escape was a good example of this... a thrill ride, but with some pretty awesome pre-launch themeing as well - city flooding, cars piled up etc. I think both are important to a good attraction The thing you have to keep in mind as well is that the parks on the Gold Coast are known and promoted as "theme parks", therefore they are expected to provide and maintain some kind of decent themeing in order to live up to that expectation by the public. So they can't really go all six flags on us and provide thrill rides with little or no themeing to them, anyway.... On another somewhat related note, what irks me off is when parks such as Movieworld spend so much money and effort into themeing large areas of their park, and then they don't even utilise it to its full extent. There's a perfectly good western area at MW which is going to complete waste since they canned the western/maverick show. It doesn't seem worth having to walk through all of it just to get to WWF. Then, strangely enough, they place an arcade in that area, which is hardly relative to the themeing around it Then there's the Chinatown area which used to be a big lead-up to the Lethal Weapon... until they stopped using the main entrance and souvenir shop for the ride, in favour of a side alley fire exit Now Chinatown is nothing but a very expensive themed exit from the ride back to the main street. All the trouble they went to with these areas, only to desert it all later down the track Edited September 21, 2011 by OceanGirl

[Theme Park Girl]

Just look at Superman Escape - while the station and external areas are not much, it has a very effective dark ride sequence that the train travels through before the main launch. And you couldn't say any thrills were sacrificed!

Lol, funny you should mention that, GoGoBoy. My other half was the first to go on Super Escape before I did, and he came out raving about how it had awesome themeing. I remember walking in to line up for the ride, inside that waiting area, and thinking "what themeing?" and "is this it?" lol. There I was assuming that maybe there was more to come beyond that point, more pre-show or something... until the actual coaster showed up and we were loaded onto it. At that stage I was under the impression that hubby had been pulling my leg! So I was VERY surprised when I later discovered that this themeing he was raving about was actually along the coaster track itself lol. Didn't expect that at all And totally agreed with him once I did see it first hand!

[tipsy_bella]

I do agree that Movie World needs MORE attractions however. They have a tendency of replacing attractions rather than keeping what is there and building new ones. I believe the park needs expansion, not just updating. They should have left Gremlins and Looney Tunes operating. I think if they can manage to keep adding these very high quality attractions without removing what is already there, the park would be leaps and bounds ahead of the competition

You have to remember though all parks around the world replace rides. Universal Orlando Kong for Mummy, Jimmy Neutron for the upcoming Despicable Me attraction, Universal Hollywood Backdraft for Transformers, IOA part of lost continent for Harry Potter and probably a heap of others. It all comes down to money essentially and space. When it comes to theme or thrills - most of the time unless it's a dark ride (eg spiderman and Harry Potter at IOA) and some coasters (Superman Escape, Mystery Mine at Dollywood) the themeing ends in the queue anyway. I enjoy a backstory as much as the last person but unless you are a theme park addict - and here is a massive generalisation - all most people want to do is get your adrenaline on and enjoy the thrills.

[Oldschool]

Movie World in my estimation should have been exploring the rich potential for theming all along. Look at the properties under the WB banner nowadays - Beetlejuice, Gremlins, Lord Of The Rings, Harry Potter, the Matrix, Lethal Weapon, Looney Tunes, Charlie And The Chocolate Factory, DC Comics, MAD Magazine, Austin Powers, Scooby Doo, Cartoon Network characters etc, etc. Yes, we are a smaller market. But, a few Disneyesque attractions with WB theming using strong comic and cartoon properties as well as decent themed attractions based on the films (and not just disguised empty thrills) could have seen Movie World emerge as our region's Disneyland equivalent. Instead, it's Six Flags Gold Coast. I for one would have loved to see a rapids ride with a "Goonies" theme or a Spy Vs Spy dark ride, maybe a "Sleepy Hollow" or "Beetlejuice" haunted house. I last visited WB Movie World after a trip that included Disneyland and Universal Hollywood and found it somewhat lacking by comparison.

[jjuttp]

When it comes to theme or thrills - most of the time unless it's a dark ride (eg spiderman and Harry Potter at IOA) and some coasters (Superman Escape, Mystery Mine at Dollywood) the themeing ends in the queue anyway.

I believe Mystery Mine is fully themed, eg. the lift hills?

[joz]

Yeah, I think the point is that with most coasters the themeing ends at load, except for a few exceptions like Superman and Mystery Mine.

[tipsy_bella]

Movie World in my estimation should have been exploring the rich potential for theming all along. Look at the properties under the WB banner nowadays - Beetlejuice, Gremlins, Lord Of The Rings, Harry Potter, the Matrix, Lethal Weapon, Looney Tunes, Charlie And The Chocolate Factory, DC Comics, MAD Magazine, Austin Powers, Scooby Doo, Cartoon Network characters etc, etc. Yes, we are a smaller market. But, a few Disneyesque attractions with WB theming using strong comic and cartoon properties as well as decent themed attractions based on the films (and not just disguised empty thrills) could have seen Movie World emerge as our region's Disneyland equivalent. Instead, it's Six Flags Gold Coast. I for one would have loved to see a rapids ride with a "Goonies" theme or a Spy Vs Spy dark ride, maybe a "Sleepy Hollow" or "Beetlejuice" haunted house. I last visited WB Movie World after a trip that included Disneyland and Universal Hollywood and found it somewhat lacking by comparison.

I'm sure they are always looking for those brands - Fright Nights ia a good example using Saw and Arkham Asylum this year. Very popular and well known. Which is why Disney is a success - well known characters and stories. I'm not saying Warner Bros don't have these but Unfortunately the bottom line is that we don't have the visitor numbers or the money coming into the parks to have these richly themed attractions. When you can get into 3 parks unlimited for a year for $100 the parks are not making money on entry and therefore not making money from them pass holdrs when in park on say merchandise and food. Essentially the only money then is from sponsorship and interstate visitors. Disney entry is about $80 a day and often the only discounted tickets are for Florida residents. Movieworld did and do have some greatly themed attractions, LTRR, Scooby Doo, Superman, WWF. I don't think we need a Disney equivalent we need Movieworld to be Movieworld.

[qldtaw]

You also need to take into account Disney's closed loop approach to their entertainment. They have had massive continued success based around, watch, buy, experience.... Their theme parks are one of the most profitable sections of their business hence all the money invested into their continued success. But it is this process that gives Disney the upper hand over small operaters. They own the large majority of properties that they create attractions for. In fact one could only assume that in the future, if not now Disney is engineering movies that can be turned into attractions, many Disney properties are worked on for years. Some music artists these days before an album is finsihed or released have already begun rehearsing their world tour. It isn't too far of a stretch to imagine Disney co-developing projects. Movieworld is paying royalties for the right to just label the coaster Green Lantern let alone the extended cost for themeing. I dont agree that Movieworld is Six Flags Gold Coast.... Dreamworld is much closer to this. But i think they are improving. At least BuzzSaw matches its area and has helped reinspire Gold Rush.. Movieworld is still investing into licening rather then removing them.

[CruiseSF]

Their theme parks are one of the most profitable sections of their business hence all the money invested into their continued success.[\quote] Its not hard for their theme parks to be the most profitable as the last few years Disney films have mostly been flops and they have been having massive slides in profits. Plus they are budgeting more then you could believe lately. For example California Adventure where they were trying to be cheap and failed horribly and it cost them more the a price of a new park just to fix it up.

[Brad2912]

Disney films flopped?? Mate Toy Story 3 made $1.2 billion!!! 3rd most profitable movie made of all time

[qldtaw]

Business doesn't work like that... if the movie sectors slumps, the theme park sector as a result is not propped up... Disney Theme Park are a buisness unto themselves... and they are highly profitable in their own right. Their investment in Theme Parks is their solution to adding to their business to ensure their continued succes and growth. Its clever if you think about it.. people may slow their consumption of consumer goods as the cost of living increases.... but imagine if Disney immoratilises their characters in a physical place you can visit... I might not buy DVDs or Blu Rays anymore... i just watch stuff at the movies thats it... but this year i went to Tokyo Disney and spent thousands of dollars! So in the end they got my dosh... Also Disney has only had 2 true 'flops' in recent years Atlantis and Treasure Planet which have lost them money, which admittedly where released towards shortly after CG films become really popular, this was the reasoning for Disney to stop making animated films. Disney has never lost money on a CG film.

[CruiseSF]

Yes they are both different sections of the company each run differently. Many of the films that Disney has produced in recent years have failed to reach what they wanted. Their profits have dropped by over 60% in recent years. Examples of these films are Jonas Brothers: The 3D Concert Experience, Confessions of a Shopaholic, Race to Witch Mountain and Bedtime Stories, just to name a few. Sure they have made some highly profitable films (Pirates 4, Toy Story 3) but they still haven't made up for the amount of failed films. This is the main reason why they re-released toy story 1 and 2 in 3D to help them out as their film business is in a dry streak. Also Toy Story 3 is not the 3rd highest grossing film as that would be the last Harry Potter film. The list goes Avatar Titanic Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows - Part 2 Lord Of The Rings Return of the King Transformers: Dark Of The Moon Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest Toy Story 3 Pirates Of The Caribbean: On Stranger Tides Alice and Wonderland The Dark Knight Now Back on topic

Edited September 22, 2011 by Cruiseshipfan

[gauge]

but this year i went to Tokyo Disney and spent thousands of dollars! So in the end they got my dosh... I'm not so sure about Disney getting your dosh... I think Tokyo Disney is like all other Disney's outside the US where the goverment funds up to 75% of the building of the park, hotels, train stations and in HK disneys case a warf for a ferry service.In HK disney the gov gets all the money from admission to the park and all the money from the 2 hotels. This is the reason why we will never get a Disney built in Australia because can you see the aus gov putting up a few billion dollars of tax payers money to build a theme park?

[jjuttp]

but this year i went to Tokyo Disney and spent thousands of dollars! So in the end they got my dosh... I'm not so sure about Disney getting your dosh... I think Tokyo Disney is like all other Disney's outside the US where the goverment funds up to 75% of the building of the park, hotels, train stations and in HK disneys case a warf for a ferry service.In HK disney the gov gets all the money from admission to the park and all the money from the 2 hotels. This is the reason why we will never get a Disney built in Australia because can you see the aus gov putting up a few billion dollars of tax payers money to build a theme park?

correction: This is the reason why we will never get a Disney built in Australia because can you see the aus gov doing anything half decent?

[Gazza]

As much of a theme park I am, I don't see it as an appropriate use of public funds to be building theme parks, apart from say contributing to infrastructure upgrades around a park ( which a private company is funding)

Edited September 23, 2011 by Gazza