What makes an inversion an inversion?

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

The drop will sell this rollercoaster....

Not sure if this has been discussed regarding this attraction - but if not, i do want to be that annoying technicality that says 'its not a drop, its an inversion'. Edited October 19, 2011 by Adam

[Gazza]

I consider this a drop.... Inversions have inwards curvature initially.

[WalleyWorld]

but if not, i do want to be that annoying technicality that says 'its not a drop, its an inversion'.

ahh the good ol' 'what makes an inversion an inversion?' question. I'm pretty sure it's been discussed here before, or on another coaster forum. It's a vague and confusing area of discussion that doesn't have an answer set in stone. A question that I think really depends on what you define 'inversion' to be. What do you class as an inversion AlexB ? Do you believe that if track is angled such that it passes the vertical, it's an inversion? Well Wiki says:

A roller coaster inversion is an element of a roller coaster track that turns riders upside-down and then rights them. The degree to which it must invert riders is nebulous and a point of contention when it comes to elements like overbanked turns, which turn riders such that their heads are below their feet, but are not considered inversions.

I agree with this statement, especially with the last sentence; which brings up an interesting argument. If you always define an inversion to be an element which turns your body such that your head is below your feet (passed the verical) is every overbanked turn in the world considered an inversion? So does that mean coasters like Millennium Force and Xcellerator have inversions?

Inversions have inwards curvature initially

Do overbanks count as an inversion then Gazza? Considering they have an inward curve initially and then go past 90 degrees. Green Lantern's drop will turn riders into that 'head before feet' position, but I don't believe it's an inversion. An inversion to me is when the track is turned upside down so that it is perpendicular to the ground. So at any point during the inversion, the track does this: But heck, even that defintion is flawed. What about Hydra at Dorney Park. Rcdb.com considers it's cobra roll to be an inversion, but its track never becomes perpendicular to the ground. So confused lol :S

[keadz]

RCDB counts only 2 inversions on the other El Locos.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I consider this a drop.... Inversions have inwards curvature initially.

It's killing me that i can't find the evidence to back this up... but i know someone will know exactly what i'm talking about - a few months ago, a video came about from TPR of a coaster (in asia i think?) that had some insane forces on it - and the coaster simply went like this: ___ ) ---- (___ Wish I could explain this better... but it just tipped you upside down, then right way up, then upside down again, with the track overlapping itself each time... SOMEONE has to understand this pathetic explanation... and when they do, and post the video or link, tell me how this, which starts with an OUTWARDS curvature initially, is NOT an inversion?

[Gazza]

Yeah, I knew about the Screamin Squirrels (Seqoia Adventure is the better known one, at Gardaland) I think I'd be willing to count those as a special case because the track goes upside down at a full 90 degrees for a sustained period, not kind of just nipping a steep angle for a fraction of a second. In general though, inversions do have inwards curvature. Like anything, I think it's hard to have a one size fits all approach...Perhaps a better solution is to look at the designers intent for an element, what the element is referred to as etc. Eg overbanks aren't really about inverting riders, its more about force reduction, so not an inversion. Steeper than vertical drops are exactly that, about dropping the car, not about inverting riders (And the point of going steeper I think is to provide more airtime) Barrel rolls, well, they are clearly about turning you upside down, aren't they?

Edited October 18, 2011 by Gazza

[MaxxTheMonster]

Eg overbanks aren't really about inverting riders, its more about force reduction, so not an inversion. Steeper than vertical drops are exactly that, about dropping the car, not about inverting riders (And the point of going steeper I think is to provide more airtime) Barrel rolls, well, they are clearly about turning you upside down, aren't they?

My thoughts exactly. I thought this was called a steeper than vertical drop anyway... "New for 2008 at Hersheypark was the Fahrenheit roller coaster. Featuring a 121 foot tall vertical lift hill and a steeper-than-vertical first drop at 97 degrees, it’s a ride that caught the attention of coaster fans everywhere." http://www.coasterimage.com/fahrenheit-video/ Just one of the few places I have seen it referred to as such.

[squid]

Time for a new thread. "What makes and inversion an inversion?"

[MaxxTheMonster]

Again, I agree with Gazza in the fact that if the "inversion" is there to simply lessen the G-Force such as overbanks then no it is not an inversion. If it is there to put people upside down, such as a cobra roll, loop, barrel roll, etc then yes it is an inversion. We could argue forever that anything greater than 90 degrees is an inversion, which is technically correct, or that unless it is 180 degrees at one point then it isn't an complete inversion, which is also correct. Each person has their own idea on what an inversion is. I also agree with Luke...

Green Lantern's drop will turn riders into that 'head before feet' position, but I don't believe it's an inversion. An inversion to me is when the track is turned upside down so that it is perpendicular to the ground.

... but in saying that, I would say that the Demon coaster that was at Australia's Wonderland had 3 inversions while by agreeing with Luke's comment it would only have had 1.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

^ and technically, in the scheme of things, you could also say it had 6...

[Gazza]

In the case of Demon it's physical elements that count, so 3... I mean, where does it put Buzzsaw if you were to go by what the train does? It can double the inversion count depending on the days operations, and even your seating position determines the inversions you get.... People in the back go all the way through the twist backwards and level out on the return trip, people in the front do not. Also, why would Demon ever be considered to have one inversion??? The cobra roll element has you fully head towards the ground, twice.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Gazza

[MaxxTheMonster]

Just using it as an example as the cobra roll had been mentioned previously.

[MaxxTheMonster]

• [*] "Overhang - Anything steeper than vertical (though usually used in the same manner as 'roof')."

http://www.thetowerclimbingcentre.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60&catid=25:the-project&Itemid=19 Despite being a rock climbing term would this not be a more realistic term for the first drop?

[Gazza]

Just using it as an example as the cobra roll had been mentioned previously.

Vekoma boomerang cobra rolls don't really splay out like those on B&Ms (and the one on Hydra is known to be a particularly odd shaped example anyway.

[MaxxTheMonster]

To be honest, not really a wizz with the manufacturers of rides. If it looks good and runs well I'm happy. To me a coaster is a coaster and a flat ride is a flat ride. That is about as far as I go.

[joz]

Time for a new thread. "What makes and inversion an inversion?"

I agree, good first post!

[squid]

I agree, good first post!

Lol, besides my typo It was more a joke really, after the 'lockers' discussion Also, wow. I didn't realise that was my first post. I thought I had posted here already

[New display name]

inversion?

[Gazza]

Still consider that a drop.

[MaxxTheMonster]

I'm going with my idea and calling this an overhang. Still not an inversion... Possibly painful, but not an inversion.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Wyncenuros

[WalleyWorld]

Possibly painful, but not an inversion.

:S I agree...that curve back into the vertical looks terrible. But yeah it's a drop. Edited October 20, 2011 by Luke

[Flea]

I'm struggling to acknowledge that thing as an actual roller coaster!