Work going on at LPM out the front

[colliric_855]

Looks good... A little expansion? Apparently this was proposed by the Palais. I hope they put part of that regular Street Market around the front here too... It's usually on LPM's right side, all in the park. But would be nice to get some cheap good grub. Not really important this is, but nice to see the council work with them and put some thought into improving the park. I hope this doesn't change things for the ole Face too much, except as I said I'd love to see some food stalls out there when the Market is on! Obviously more room for rides and expanding beyond the 1912 footprint would be bigger news than this... but this is good too.

[mba2012]

TBH this just looks like a resurfacing. Maybe it is for that street market, but who knows. But it really doesn't look like an expansion of any sort...

[colliric_855]

TBH this just looks like a resurfacing. Maybe it is for that street market, but who knows. But it really doesn't look like an expansion of any sort...

The concrete area out the front has been extended right down to the tram stop, and some work has occured on the road between LPM and the Palais.. as they have pointed out on their facebook page. You can compare it to the Google Maps street view. They have extended the front an awful lot. For example, they got rid of that lane that turns into that small road between LPM and Palais.

They've given themselves quite a bit of extra space. It's really nice actually.

Edited May 27, 2013 by colliric_855

[Flea]

Yeah that'll do guys. As Richard mentioned in the announcement we are starting to delete posts when we feel that threads are starting to/are being driven into the ground by the same old crap. Make your point, sure, but don't create pages and pages of drivel. Let's get back to quality posts and actually make it past page 1 without a Mack joke.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Awww come on!!! I mean I get the point, and the intent... but seriously - that had the means to attain 'Joz's quote of the week' status...

[colliric_855]

Going to the park tommorow possibly...

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

On topic - RWC - the work outside is pretty obviously just some resurfacing and maintenance - but see if you can get a photo or two - hopefully they aren't going to just leave it bare cement and will actually try to fit blend it in with the rest of the entrance...

Edited June 8, 2013 by djrappa

[colliric_855]

On topic - RWC - the work outside is pretty obviously just some resurfacing and maintenance - but see if you can get a photo or two - hopefully they aren't going to just leave it bare cement and will actually try to fit blend it in with the rest of the entrance...

They got rid of the left turn lane into the alley, and have extended the front down to the tramstop. You can see the difference by looking at the old one on the outdated Google Maps Street View. So they have changed it a bit, and not just resurfaced it.

[Gazza]

You can see the changes here:Don't think it has much to do with the park though.

[colliric_855]

You can see the changes here:Don't think it has much to do with the park though.

Thanks

[bluman]

The work is being undertaken by the City of Port Phillip. The following link outlines the work to be done and timeline, as well as some images: http://www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/luna-park-forecourt.htm

Edited June 9, 2013 by bluman

[Jobe]

Thanks Bluman good pickup!! Obviously a council driven initiative. Hopefully the changes will prove to be positive around the general area to the triangle and to the entrance to Luna Park.

[colliric_855]

Thanks Bluman good pickup!! Obviously a council driven initiative. Hopefully the changes will prove to be positive around the general area to the triangle and to the entrance to Luna Park.

Site specifically says it was a joint initiative... Heritage Victoria and Luna Park worked with the council on the design of this. Just sayin'. Councils don't work in a vacuum, usually act on proposals/ideas put forward by residents over a long period of time. They(Council and the Park) probably planned this for years, together. Edited June 9, 2013 by colliric_855

[JacobSibbald]

They(Council and the Park) probably planned this for years, together.

I doubt they planned a footpath reconstruction for years.

Edited June 9, 2013 by JacobSibbald

[keadz]

Port Phillip council has been 'pedestrianising' St.Kilda for a while. Some small improvements as shown in the link above. The area is a down and out dump though, full of nimbys and the council isn't any better. Don't expect any big changes to occur beyond a footpath upgrade. Only in Australia would the most prominent site, in one of its most recognised suburbs hold a car park.

[bluman]

The initial St Kilda Foreshore Urban Design Framework dates back to 2002 (published date and was revised in 2003) and had a budget in the vicinity of $130 million. They acknowledge it would take many years to achieve and as the budget allowed. The upgrade to the LPM Forecourt is only one aspect of the upgrades.

[colliric_855]

I doubt they planned a footpath reconstruction for years.

I doubt you're from Melbourne where it takes years to get anything done. Edited June 10, 2013 by colliric_855

[colliric_855]

Port Phillip council has been 'pedestrianising' St.Kilda for a while. Some small improvements as shown in the link above. The area is a down and out dump though, full of nimbys and the council isn't any better. Don't expect any big changes to occur beyond a footpath upgrade. Only in Australia would the most prominent site, in one of its most recognised suburbs hold a car park.

That's because they bloody well stonewalled Lindsay. Mind you, any redevelopment of it should also include a carpark(multilevel!) I also heard recently that St Kilda Pier was closed? Is that TRUE? If so, is it only temporary or permanent? If you want evidence it takes years for anything to happen in Melbourne, Google "Savoy Tavern"(20 years), "Doncaster Trainline"(60 to 80 years... Still hasn't been built) or "Tullamarine Raillink"(ever since Tulla opened). Edited June 10, 2013 by colliric_855

[Jobe]

Site specifically says it was a joint initiative... Heritage Victoria and Luna Park worked with the council on the design of this. Just sayin'. Councils don't work in a vacuum, usually act on proposals/ideas put forward by residents over a long period of time. They(Council and the Park) probably planned this for years, together.

Actually the site states

"Council worked in conjunction with Luna Park and Heritage Victoria to develop this design to comply with the major restrictions that apply at this site. There are strict heritage rules that prohibit the inclusion of any infrastructure, landscaping, civil works or future works that conflict with the direct site lines to the Mr Moon Face (Luna Park Entrance). Due to the fact that Council was reconstructing the existing forecourt and enhancing the viewing capabilities of the Mr Moon Face, we were able to get an exemption from Heritage Victoria to undertake these works."

To me, this is far more compelling evidence to support that this was a Council initiative and that they approached Luna Park in conjunction in applying the works, not the other way around. Plus the fact that this is found on the City of Port Phillip Bays' website and NOT the Luna Park website is also an indication at who is the main driver of these works Either way, it is a good thing. It will allow superior access to the entrance and give far safer room for photo opportunities for pedestrian traffic.

Also I do not agree with your assessment on Councils. Councils all around Australia DO undertake their own works independently of ANY outside influences. These people they employ to do this are called Town Planners. Whilst it is true that some works are undertaken by residents proposals , that is just one facet of Council Town Planning. Every council has them. Just saying.

That's because they bloody well stonewalled Lindsay. Mind you, any redevelopment of it should also include a carpark(multilevel!) I also heard recently that St Kilda Pier was closed? Is that TRUE? If so, is it only temporary or permanent? If you want evidence it takes years for anything to happen in Melbourne, Google "Savoy Tavern"(20 years), "Doncaster Trainline"(60 to 80 years... Still hasn't been built) or "Tullamarine Raillink"(ever since Tulla opened).

I hardly think that Melbourne is alone in having redevelopments stuck in limbo for years. Every city in Australia would have similar proposals that have been postponed, stonewalled or deferred for an indefinite period of time. There is nothing unique about Melbourne in this regard.

[colliric_855]

I hardly think that Melbourne is alone in having redevelopments stuck in limbo for years. Every city in Australia would have similar proposals that have been postponed, stonewalled or deferred for an indefinite period of time. There is nothing unique about Melbourne in this regard.

Sure it's not alone, but it's also internally politically infamous in this regard, within the city itself. For instance, there was no reason the Savoy Tavern had to sit like that for years and years. The Owners just were not forced(by Council pressure) to do something with it until now(it's actually going to be renovated and reopen still as a Bar and also now a shopping complex). But yeah other cities do have issues like this too.

I won't argue with you about the other statements, as obviously there's arguements both ways, and continuing would be a waste of time.

[keadz]

When Lindsay puts forward a proposal for Luna Park, then you could say he was stonewalled. So far he has undertaken some much needed maintenance, added a party tram and some some temporary carnival rides, nothing drastic. Me thinks he was interested in gaining rights to developing the whole St Kilda triangle when he bought the park. Fairly sure the council hasn't received any planning documents since he has taken over, other than for the changes stated above.

As Bluman posted, these works are all to do with council policy/strategy. Reopening the pier was part of this, as well as the 'super' tram stops, added bike lanes, widening of the footpath, reduction in speed limits, separation of road/light rail, improved beach front, and of course the Luna Park forecourt. Luna Parks influence would have been minimal (obviously not experts on pedestrians and usage of public space), though I'm sure there was extensive communication between the two. A giant multi storey car park would have been good in the 60's. Today it would pretty much just shit all over the efforts the council has made to improve alternative modes of transport.

You could rephrase your last point to, Australia takes for ever to invest in public infrastructure. There's nothing wrong with planning for the future, so its not unusual to sit on these plans for a while. Unfortunately Abbott has stated he won't invest in public transport, so don't expect this to change across the country any time soon. Savoy is owned privately, the owner is obviously holding the land and enjoying the yearly increase in land value. This case is only important to the council because its on such a prominent piece of land. The current proposal is a joke, basically just reopening what was previously there. I'm fairly sure someone is just having a laugh.

Edited June 10, 2013 by keadz

[colliric_855]

Savoy is owned privately, the owner is obviously holding the land and enjoying the yearly increase in land value. This case is only important to the council because its on such a prominent piece of land. The current proposal is a joke, basically just reopening what was previously there. I'm fairly sure someone is just having a laugh.

Doubt that. Across the road is the newly opened(I think it was 2010) Mail Exchange Hotel and it's doing gangbusters across the road from the Savoy. The area is fast becoming a hotspot. Reopening it actually is probably a very good idea, and maybe it might enter competition with the the Exchange which has pretty much taken all the old Savoy business. People who say this is a "Bad idea" obviously haven't been to the Exchange and seen it's practically a "Savoy in-spirit" just across the road from the original.

One thing's for sure, it won't be turned into an office building or anything like that. Heritage listed buildings nearbye. That's probably why Doyle originally pushed for a park, apart from reopening the current building or a small shopping area, that's likely the only other proposal that has any chance of avoiding shadowing issues with anyof the heritage listed neighbours. Including my Church for instance.

I honestly believe the reopening of the Savoy is probably because of the spiffy new pub across the road taking all of it's old business and showing that it was stupid to close the Savoy in the first place. I see it every Sunday, the MEH is pretty much the "new Savoy", opposite the old one. Royal Melbourne Hotel is on the opposite side of my Church, and that's a great nightclub/pub also(Busy also). So you have two similar businesses in the same location doing well. Savoy reopening for a younger crowd is a smart move(unless three in one spot turns out to be too many, but we won't know until it happens).

If they reopen, here is what they're now up against:

http://www.mailexchangehotel.com.au/

and the smaller

http://www.rmh.com.au/

Edited June 10, 2013 by colliric_855

[Jobe]

Royal Melbourne Hotel is on the opposite side of my Church, and that's a great nightclub/pub also(Busy also).

Whoa!! Your church is a great pub/nightclub?? That explains a lot about you!! I could get me some religion like that!! Now we are talking!!

Edited June 10, 2013 by Jobe

[colliric_855]

Whoa!! Your church is a great pub/nightclub?? That explains a lot about you!! I could get me some religion like that!! Now we are talking!!

LOL!

But seriously now, it's painfully obvious to them now, closing the Savoy was a mistake(or a lost opportunity). Two new pubs(hotels by name, pubs by nature) have since moved in across the road and a few doors down, and both are doing good business. Perhaps it IS too late for it to reopen, given it's got strong competition now.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Have you considered the fact that you can't just re-open it - if, for instance, they no longer hold a liquor license? On closure, they may have sold it lost it, and had to reapply for it. Maybe chose not to reapply, and now can't because the two nearby prohibit a third? There are rules and regulations on liquor licensing that include considerations for proximity in certain areas. I know the burnt out Victory in the Brisbane CBD had some licensing issues between when it closed down and when it reopened... but they obviously resolved it.

Now - if I have to crap on about Mack refurbishing the Savoy I will - but this topic is about work out the front of LPM, not some bygone era of melbourne 'pubs'... can we delete the last 11-12 posts and move on... we're still on page one!

<insert future mack joke here>

Edited June 11, 2013 by AlexB