Fright Night 2013

[ShakeShack]

I have just uploaded the first Carn Evil show. I also have both the Space Cowboy ones to come.

I will also scan the park map for those who wanted it.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Well something would have to give. Less people means less money so you'd either have to have A) a lesser experience, theming, actors, etc higher entry price to compensate What are people's thoughts on which way to go? Or is it fine the way it is now??

TBH, I'd rather pay the higher entry fee.

Let me preface this by saying I haven't yet been this year. Was planning on going thursday night, but now that they've released another night on friday, I may end up going then instead.

From my previous years experiences, I would happily pay a bit extra if they just capped the numbers. The numbers i've seen in previous years aren't TOO far from a happy medium... so i'm not suggesting a DRASTIC reduction to numbers, just a little bit.

That said - they obviously ARE capping numbers (otherwise they wouldn't sell out) but it's just capped too high.

(And it gives the wrong impression when they say sold out, but then sell tickets at the gate for a premium - I realise they are doing this to stop the website from committing to a sale when they reach capacity, and they have to charge more at the gate because of staffing costs etc.)

I'd probably suggest around a 15% reduction to the current cap - maybe pushing 20%.

I know it's comparing apples with formula 1 racing cars, but Universal's HHN go for $69. A standard ticket for FN is $39.99. I would love to see the sales figures for MW on how many full-price tickets are sold vs. how many are VIP passes with a free entry.

I say this because theres no point trying to up the price of admission if the majority are freebies included with a standard ticket - another reason to advocate steptiering the VIP passes with different levels... if people want the cheap pass, they get no extras, and lockouts. If people want the big-kahuna, let em pay extra!

An increase to the FN ticket of $15, and an increase to WC of $10 is needed. Then add another $20 to the price of a gold VIP pass, and don't make gold a free upgrade... (but make it $5-10 cheaper for gold holders that are renewing).

This means the ticket price has been increased between 10-25%, but you've only reduced park numbers by 15-20%... overall it should balance out as I don't see the price differential to be drastic enough to make people shop elsewhere (because where are they going to go, realistically?)

That said, the feedback i've heard so far is pretty good this year - the biggest complaint is that there is too much fog (is that possible?) so perhaps turning down the timing or duration would save some bucks. Environmental wise, i think the level of lighting through the park is mostly fine (Showstage area could use a little more), so what they really need to do is cut down on some of the entertainment - realistically I don't know a lot of people who go for the street show, and given that they 'steal' maze actors to take part in the opening show it could probably be done away with as well.

I'd like to see China Town Alley reused for a darkness-like maze, because it doesn't impact on scooby, doesn't cause confusion with the queues, and doesn't choke Dirty Harry Corner. I know its technically a back of house area, but the Dragon's Lair maze a few years back was perfectly suited to that area, and surely back of house could work around it?

I want to go on record on the following points:

• I haven't seen this years efforts, but have been for the past 3 or 4 years
• I think MW improve FN every year, and I think each one is fantastic and better than the last.
• I understand the financial economic responsibilities, you can't have your cake and eat it too - it needs to make a profit for it to be worth it.
• i'd love to see them reduce the numbers (slightly) and charge a little extra (slightly more) to compensate.
• At the same time i'd like to see a little less money spent on things that aren't essential (like the opening show street show) and put any savings made towards better arena shows and mazes.

[ShakeShack]

Edited October 27, 2013 by Luke Beazley

[Reanimated35]

That said, the feedback i've heard so far is pretty good this year - the biggest complaint is that there is too much fog (is that possible?) so perhaps turning down the timing or duration would save some bucks. Environmental wise, i think the level of lighting through the park is mostly fine (Showstage area could use a little more), so what they really need to do is cut down on some of the entertainment - realistically I don't know a lot of people who go for the street show, and given that they 'steal' maze actors to take part in the opening show it could probably be done away with as well.

I'd like to see China Town Alley reused for a darkness-like maze, because it doesn't impact on scooby, doesn't cause confusion with the queues, and doesn't choke Dirty Harry Corner. I know its technically a back of house area, but the Dragon's Lair maze a few years back was perfectly suited to that area, and surely back of house could work around it?

It's not so much that there's "too much" smoke - I'd say it's just too thick just around the pumps, but that's one of those things that is to be expected and you just have to take a bit more care when walking - in some spots, it's dangerous - IMO mostly where superman connects to main street as there's a few kerbs and a bottleneck of people you're likely to walk into - in saying that, I never saw it happen.

I don't understand how anyone could be confused with the scooby/darkness queues - they're clearly labelled as to what they are - the entry/sign for darkness should be about 20m back just outside gotham cafe though as that's where the line always seems to be - wouldn't have hurt having an A-frame sign up for Walking Dead all the way back where its queue starts as that's the one that causes the most confusion with Evil Dead.

[Zanstabar]

Let me preface this by saying I haven't yet been this year. Was planning on going thursday night, but now that they've released another night on friday, I may end up going then instead.

From my previous years experiences, I would happily pay a bit extra if they just capped the numbers. The numbers i've seen in previous years aren't TOO far from a happy medium... so i'm not suggesting a DRASTIC reduction to numbers, just a little bit.

That said - they obviously ARE capping numbers (otherwise they wouldn't sell out) but it's just capped too high.

(And it gives the wrong impression when they say sold out, but then sell tickets at the gate for a premium - I realise they are doing this to stop the website from committing to a sale when they reach capacity, and they have to charge more at the gate because of staffing costs etc.)

I'd probably suggest around a 15% reduction to the current cap - maybe pushing 20%.

I know it's comparing apples with formula 1 racing cars, but Universal's HHN go for $69. A standard ticket for FN is $39.99. I would love to see the sales figures for MW on how many full-price tickets are sold vs. how many are VIP passes with a free entry.

I say this because theres no point trying to up the price of admission if the majority are freebies included with a standard ticket - another reason to advocate steptiering the VIP passes with different levels... if people want the cheap pass, they get no extras, and lockouts. If people want the big-kahuna, let em pay extra!

An increase to the FN ticket of $15, and an increase to WC of $10 is needed. Then add another $20 to the price of a gold VIP pass, and don't make gold a free upgrade... (but make it $5-10 cheaper for gold holders that are renewing).

This means the ticket price has been increased between 10-25%, but you've only reduced park numbers by 15-20%... overall it should balance out as I don't see the price differential to be drastic enough to make people shop elsewhere (because where are they going to go, realistically?)

That said, the feedback i've heard so far is pretty good this year - the biggest complaint is that there is too much fog (is that possible?) so perhaps turning down the timing or duration would save some bucks. Environmental wise, i think the level of lighting through the park is mostly fine (Showstage area could use a little more), so what they really need to do is cut down on some of the entertainment - realistically I don't know a lot of people who go for the street show, and given that they 'steal' maze actors to take part in the opening show it could probably be done away with as well.

I'd like to see China Town Alley reused for a darkness-like maze, because it doesn't impact on scooby, doesn't cause confusion with the queues, and doesn't choke Dirty Harry Corner. I know its technically a back of house area, but the Dragon's Lair maze a few years back was perfectly suited to that area, and surely back of house could work around it?

I want to go on record on the following points:

• I haven't seen this years efforts, but have been for the past 3 or 4 years
• I think MW improve FN every year, and I think each one is fantastic and better than the last.
• I understand the financial economic responsibilities, you can't have your cake and eat it too - it needs to make a profit for it to be worth it.
• i'd love to see them reduce the numbers (slightly) and charge a little extra (slightly more) to compensate.
• At the same time i'd like to see a little less money spent on things that aren't essential (like the opening show street show) and put any savings made towards better arena shows and mazes.

Personally, I don't think the price or capacity for the event should change; it's fine the way it is. What I think MW should do is add another maze or two and another show next year in order to soak up some of those crowds so we're not seeing 100 minute queues.

It's not so much that there's "too much" smoke - I'd say it's just too thick just around the pumps, but that's one of those things that is to be expected and you just have to take a bit more care when walking - in some spots, it's dangerous - IMO mostly where superman connects to main street as there's a few kerbs and a bottleneck of people you're likely to walk into - in saying that, I never saw it happen.

I don't understand how anyone could be confused with the scooby/darkness queues - they're clearly labelled as to what they are - the entry/sign for darkness should be about 20m back just outside gotham cafe though as that's where the line always seems to be - wouldn't have hurt having an A-frame sign up for Walking Dead all the way back where its queue starts as that's the one that causes the most confusion with Evil Dead.

I didn't really find a problem with the fog at this year's event. Everyone found there way through the streets perfectly fine, but I do see how it could easily become a hazard. As for the queues, they definitely need an A-Frame sign at the entry and longer queue set-ups so we aren't seeing guests not knowing what maze they are queuing for and the dreaded "improv" queue that happens to confuse everyone even more.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Personally, I don't think the price or capacity for the event should change; it's fine the way it is. What I think MW should do is add another maze or two and another show next year in order to soak up some of those crowds so we're not seeing 100 minute queues.

But thats just it - thats the problem that DjRappa was talking about - (ok it's the opposite problem but still the same issue). If you add more mazes, you need to either up the price (to pay for it) or increase the park capacity (to sell more tickets at the same price to cover the cost).

So your suggestion doesn't work - you still have to up the price, or alter the capacity to do anything. If you're talking about needing to add things to soak up crowds to reduce queue times, then you're agreeing that as the park stands, there are too many people for the amount of attractions present.

[rappa]

Correct

[Zanstabar]

Hmmm. Guess you are right. Out of both your suggestions though, I would much rather see a lower capacity and more events than a higher ticket price, but either way I'm going to head down to the coast every October just to see what MW puts out.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

That wasn't either of my suggestions. You can't lower capacity AND add more events without upping the price.

Here are your choices:

1. Leave everything exactly as it is
2. reduce capacity, increase prices
3. increase capacity, freeze prices Or if you really want to argue for them to put more attractions in that blow people away:
4. increase capacity, increase prices

End results for each option:

1. People complain it's too crowded
2. People complain its too expensive
3. People complain it's too crowded, but theres an extra maze
4. People complain it's too crowded AND expensive - but still go because they got a free ticket included with their VIP Gold pass. Twitter melts down over the number of 'FML' posts coming out of helensvale. VRTP decides the money would be better spent on alcohol for their staff christmas party - no more fright nights - all the staff rejoice.

[Zanstabar]

So it's a lose-lose situation? Anyway, I'm sure VRTP will find a way to expand the event and reduce crowds a little (hopefully). But in all reality, is a 30 minute line really that bad?

[Original]

I have no problem with increasing prices and increasing crowds if a few things could happen:

1) Run the night till later, the hardest part is the forever complaining residents. But if they could someway get past it for just the month but in America, Universal's nights finish between midnight and 2am, depending on the night.

2) Definitely run Scooby and Justice League till the end of the night. I know some people said on here the park didn't have JL open at the beginning, did this change.

3) Again you'd have to get residents past this but somehow open the rides till later if you could get it past them, it would be nice if they could all open till the end, or even some right at the front like batwing and GL could maybe be allowed.

4) Open Wild West, I know Joz or DJRappa have already said on here before logistically its a nightmare, but to light the ride up in spooky colours put a couple of Halloween sets up, I've always thought the ride would be perfect for it, heck it already has the ghost town.

5) Run the 4D theatre, I don't know if it did this year, either Halloween themed or not, I'd like to see it run to just soak up crowds.

6) Keep a stunt type show in the HSD arena and in the show stage have a Bill & Ted (Universal) or The Hanging (Knotts Berry Farm) Horror/Comedy type show, while still having smaller shows in mainstreet and have big ending type show like the chainsaw's at Universal.

7) Have the park add at least one or two more mazes and stop putting one in the Scooby queue and let the ride with its full queue since the night gets so busy. I've always thought Infinfity could fit amaze in if they took out the games for the month.

If they did these things, I'd be happy to pay more and have more people, I know that still wouldn't help overcrowding or lines, but what a heck of a night if they did all of the above.

You've got to remember over Universal and Knotts, I've seen reviews of mazes getting lines of an easy 2 hours, and I presume lines for rides aren't short either. You've just got to realise when you got the events be prepared to be patient and waiting in queues as part of the experience

[Gazza]

in the show stage have a Bill & Ted (Universal) or The Hanging (Knotts Berry Farm) Horror/Comedy type show

Doesn't the show stage get used for a maze?

Have the park add at least one or two more mazes and stop putting one in the Scooby queue and let the ride with its full queue since the night gets so busy. I've always thought Infinfity could fit amaze in if they took out the games for the month.

The 3rd time they hosted FN they had one in Intencity, but it was a very short maze, and probably a big hit in terms of park revenue.

[Original]

^ It does get used for a maze, but I'd prefer it if they could find another spot to put the maze and use the show stage for what it was actually built for... a show!

And yea after posting that and thinking how much revenue it would take away your right not the best place. I'd still prefer not have one in the Scooby queue either.

[Gazza]

^So you want more mazes, but they aren't allowed to use any of the cost effective or centralised locations to host them?

[Brad2912]

LOL

so we are taking away 2 of the current 4 maze locations, and at the same time adding more mazes?? 5 or 6 into 2 does not work...

[Zanstabar]

Well if we are on the topic about Maze locations, they called always do what Universal Florida does and have a "sprung tent" out near WWF or Loony Tunes in order to spread the crowds a bit more evenly. Take this for example...

You've got to remember over Universal and Knotts, I've seen reviews of mazes getting lines of an easy 2 hours, and I presume lines for rides aren't short either. You've just got to realise when you got the events be prepared to be patient and waiting in queues as part of the experience

I do agree that we should be prepared to what a decent amount of time when we go to these events, but the problem is that we don't have a long time to get through all the mazes. If the queue for each maze is roughly an hour, you would have no hope of going through all of them without local residents allowing the event to go longer.

[rappa]

You can't just "somehow get around that" being noise curfews from residents. The rides have to shut at 9 and there is a noise curfew from 10pm in the area. There is just no getting around that.

I would agree with the above points though mentioning crowd soakers being shows and the theatre. What about some sort of half hour abridged version of Rocky Horror (call it Roxy Horror) in the theatre with maybe some interactive actors?

I'd also love to see at least 3 performances in HSD and some kind of Bill and Tedds type show eleswhere. Show stage is obvious choice, but you then need another location for a big maze... so you have to be realistic about finding that... if it was me I'd be building a big tent structure to use the old china alley and arkham courtyard area, would require some kind of diversion for the ride exit though, and take into acount the need for wheelchair access. You could use the old theatre space but you'd have to build the floor up level with scaff.

Then on top of all those factors you have to pay for this somehow, which in reality would mean forcing a greater percentage of people to buy the $40 tickets rather than VIP redemptions, whilst still keeping the same attendance.

When you look at all of that it's quick to see increasing or changing anything about the event is a big challenge.

[Zanstabar]

When you look at all of that it's quick to see increasing or changing anything about the event is a big challenge.

These type of events are changing every year in one form or another, so if we don't end up with a higher maze count next year, we may receive a dedicated scare-zone or couple new shows.

What about some sort of half hour abridged version of Rocky Horror (call it Roxy Horror) in the theatre with maybe some interactive actors?

I would actually love to show a showing of RHPS in the Rocky Theatre. It seems like prime space that is constantly underused at Fright Nights.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Zanstabar

[Reanimated35]

Darkness is a fairly small maze in the scooby queue - why not put one on that path down the the kids area? - or if they have actually gutted the old LTRR area and aren't using it for storage (which they probably are) they could have thrown one in there.

I'd be much happier to pay more for less people. And when you look at it, that would work for them too. Look at the number of people who are willing to pay 15 bucks for a burger, people will pay, people will bitch, people will move on with life.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

One thing to consider though - have we given them a good reason to try and make wait times better?

In so many people buying maze fast passes, we've encouraged them to keep the lines as long as possible, as long wait times mean more revenue from those who want to skip the queue, at the expense of people who dont or can't pay the extra. I'm not saying this is something they've done intentionally to make money, but the revenue from these passes would not have a high cost against them - colour printed cards done in bulk by vista print, a couple of hole-punch devices, and a few queue rails organised differently (don't forget the inevitable A-frames). Implementing this idea hasn't cost more than $1-2k, and over 8+ nights at $30 (or $40) a pop, i'm sure they well and truly made a killing.

I do sincerely hope that the extra revenue they've generated from the fast pass tickets is reinvested into the event next year and not just absorbed into central revenue, with the same budget attached to next year... if that makes sense?

[Zanstabar]

I sure VRTP would reinvest most of the money from this year back into the event, but I'm sure they would also use a small amount of the profit for other projects

I do sincerely hope that the extra revenue they've generated from the fast pass tickets is reinvested into the event next year and not just absorbed into central revenue, with the same budget attached to next year... if that makes sense?

Edited October 30, 2013 by Zanstabar

[Gary86]

So I went to my first Fright Nights last night. I went into all four mazes starting with the ones in the movie studios. I then went to Hillbilly Slasher where the line seemed to start by going through Boot Hill in 2 directions. I had to avoid gravestones and there was a big drop at the end with 2 separate lines pushing in. The line was long, very long if ever go again I may need to get a fast pass. The last maze I went through was the one inside Scooby where I was the leader! Some scare actors did bump into me but they apologized. It's sometime hard to avoid them. At the end I thought I lead everyone to the emergency exit but apparently that was the correct way. It was then after 9pm so I missed the show and all rides except Scooby were closed so I only got 1 ride in.

That chainsaw was scary wasn't it? It had to be fake right? In case someone got too close?

My only advice I can give to Movie World if they read this forum is lower the crowds. It is absolute chaos. Not only are there some very long lines but too many cars trying to get in and out. More nights + less people = more enjoyment. A show in the Roxy is needed too.

[Brad2912]

That chainsaw was scary wasn't it? It had to be fake right? In case someone got too close?

It's a real petrol-powered chainsaw, minus the cutting chain.

More nights + less people = more enjoyment.

It also equals significantly increased cost per ticket...

[Zanstabar]

I'm fine with a ticket increase, as long as its something reasonable (Not a jump from $40 to $90)

[Brad2912]

I'm fine with a ticket increase, as long as its something reasonable (Not a jump from $40 to $90)

yeah well it would be hard for them to be able to justify a $90 ticket price given that's the cost of a VIP pass..

The proof in the pudding for the success of Fright Nights would be if they removed it as being included in the VIP pass. I'm not advocating getting rid of Gold level VIP passes, but maybe having a Gold Pass gives you say 50% discount on fright nights and white xmas, and obviously some other ongoing benefit to make it worthwhile (i.e. 9am entry on weekends). I just dont know how many VIP pass holders would pay to go vs those that just go because it is included in the price.

There is also room i believe for my disparity between regular VIPs and Golds. None of this free upgrade to Gold. That cheapens the product and the point of being a Gold level VIP.

Regular VIP $99

Gold VIP $129 (or $30 more than whatever price they put on the VIP pass. $99 is too cheap IMO but as we have seen on here and various other pages, they have trained the locals that they should be getting so much for so little that any raise is met with ridiculous uproar)

Fright Nights - $50 or $100 for a season pass - Gold VIPs get a 50% discount

White Xmas - $40 or a family of four for $120. Gold VIPs get a 50% discount

Slight increase in pricing across the board, no 'freebies' as such for Fright Nights and I believe you will see more reasonable queue times.