Blackfish

[Richard]

I wouldn't advocate for something as reckless as releasing the captive population; by and large what's done is done. And given my own animal rights activism doesn't extend much further than buying free range eggs, I think it'd be mighty hypocritical to suggest something like this.

SeaWorld have built a brand on the orcas and there is certainly merit to their conservation work as a result of their success. I don't think they'd fail without them, especially as the parks have diversified to offer much more than the daily Shamu shows in recent years.

There is something awe-inspiring about seeing these whales in the flesh at SeaWorld. Truly unlike any other creature you'll ever see. But to see them kept in plain concrete pools that, though large, are still tiny for the size of the whales, and to see all the collapsed dorsal fins and know that this isn't normal, it leaves an overall off-putting feeling. The tacky circus aspects of the show -- trainers riding the whales etc. -- are cringe-worthy and I believe unnecessary to the spectacle of just seeing them in the flesh.

And on the subject I think this is also one of the worst things about the Gold Coast Sea World's dolphin show -- it destroys the "these are only natural behaviours or those taught for their well-being" narrative that they try and sell.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I agree that the whales should have much more than plain concrete pools. Discovery Cove is amazing and as pointed out by the germans in the trip report Gazza posted elsewhere a while back - is wonderful, but I think one of the big attractions for the Orca is the underwater viewing areas - this can certainly be implemented in a 'natural' environment (one only has to look at Shark Bay), however this would involve housing the Orcas temporarily in another tank elsewhere, or constructing a temporary one... i'm not sure either is viable for the entire Pod... one perhaps, but I don't think moving all of them is good for their health.

I would like to see them build more natural environments - even if they perhaps used it in a paddock system - letting them 'out to pasture' to play when they are at leisure.

That said, I think Sea World would take a massive hit if they lost them as an element of the park - it's still the number one attraction across their target market - evidenced clearly by the size of the stadium seating and the fact that it is filled - even in drizzling rain - to capacity.

I do want to take to task the 'dorsal fin' debate and point out that wild Orcas have been observed with a collapsed dorsal, and I believe it is not just related to captivity, but sometimes to the length size of the fin being too much to hold erect. I don't want to belabour the point, but i've heard evidence both ways.

On the GC park and our SW Dolphin show - i'm not sure I understand what you mean? Are you suggesting the dolphins at our Sea World do behaviours purely for entertainment rather than their natural actions or those to keep them mentally stimulated?

[jjuttp]

On the GC park and our SW Dolphin show - i'm not sure I understand what you mean? Are you suggesting the dolphins at our Sea World do behaviours purely for entertainment rather than their natural actions or those to keep them mentally stimulated?

Bingo.

For example the recent dolphin encounters in Sydney; all you get out of him is a pat and a hug really. Nothing you see in the shows. The closest that you would get in nature to the show is probably the towing part. Dolphins are the closest aquatic based animal to a human, so like if a dog senses distress in absolutely anyone, they will comfort them, dolphins will pull you to land. They don't have a concept of waving or splashing to play, let alone launching you.

As for new pools etc. that would cost the same as around a new water park. Also, as for size; i believe America don't have standard for the sizes that enclosures must be set at.

[Richard]

1% of orcas in the wild exhibit dorsal fin collapse. Every male in captivity exhibits it. Those are pretty clear-cut statistics. Whether it's a sign of physical or mental distress is another matter, but it's clear-cut evidence that their captive environment is at odds with how these animals grow and develop.

With our Sea World I was referring specifically to the dolphin surfing/riding stunts performed in the show. These sorts of cheesy circus tricks seem more about the trainers than the dolphins and detract from a show that is otherwise about education and conservation.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

For example the recent dolphin encounters in Sydney; all you get out of him is a pat and a hug really. Nothing you see in the shows. The closest that you would get in nature to the show is probably the towing part. Dolphins are the closest aquatic based animal to a human, so like if a dog senses distress in absolutely anyone, they will comfort them, dolphins will pull you to land. They don't have a concept of waving or splashing to play, let alone launching you.

With our Sea World I was referring specifically to the dolphin surfing/riding stunts performed in the show. These sorts of cheesy circus tricks seem more about the trainers than the dolphins and detract from a show that is otherwise about education and conservation.

You're at odds with each other - one saying towing is natural, the other saying surfingriding is an unnatural cheesy circus trick.

Let me take on a couple of points from my point of view - which is to say my info comes from a family friend (and guest at my wedding) and is a person who was (and still is) very closely associated with Discovery Cove. I'll not discuss their association in greater detail simply to prevent anyone identifying them, but suffice to say they are in a position of knowledge.

Jjutp - although "waving" or "splashing" may not be seen as natural behaviour, floating on their backs is a necessary behaviour for medical reasons - such as ultrasounds on pregnant mothers etc. Movement of the pectoral fins IS a natural behaviour - and is simply one exhibited while displaying the very necessary 'upside down' behaviour.

When you say 'Splashing' i'm not sure if you're referring to the water-slapping done with their fluke, or whether you mean them scooping water intheir mouths and squirting it. Dolphins have been observed in the wild 'fluke-slapping' which is used working as a group to corral or herd school-fish, and they've even been observed to do this to work in conjunction with fisherman - although this is a behaviour exhibited working with humans, the animals WERE wild, and weren't trained specifically to do it - it was simply a natural behaviour that resulted in them being rewarded by the fisherman who benefited from their assistance.

Mouth-squirting - i don't have an answer for - i don't know either way.

Richard - the surfing riding 'stunts' have also been observed out of captivity, and as Jjutp refers, Dolphins have anecdotally been referred to as rescuers who (on occasion have been talked about) save people lost at sea. I can't explain other similar behaviours, but the breaching jumping is a natural behaviour, albeit with a foot on their nose. Either way - humandolphin interaction in the water (in my opinion) is good for them, socially, and to bond with their trainers.

(I recall when the dolphins used to perform in the Sea Lion Stadium, one song they used to play during the show was something like 'swim with me'. )

Dolphins frequently cavort and play around watercraft, and other places where people and the ocean interact - they're social creatures - so swimming towing surfing with them, whilst not strictly 'natural' (because they need a human in order to exhibit it) isn't restricted to animals in captivity.

Furthermore - on my last visit to Sea World, one dolphin, completely at leisure was within the main arena, leisurely flipping a basketball around the pool without direction or instruction from trainers... at one point flipping the ball out of the pool in front of a guest entering the arena, who tossed it back into the water, only to have it immediately tossed back out at them. As social creatures, they crave interation - and I would argue a similar scene would have occurred in open water had the dolphin, ball, and person been in the vicinity.

In summary, my point is that I do not believe any of the behaviours or interactions displayed at our Sea World are done purely for entertainment value. I submit that all of these behaviours are either natural, necessary for the animal's physical wellbeing, or otherwise are intended to stimulate them mentally to prevent them from resorting to destructive behaviours out of boredom.

If you hang around discovery cove after the show, (or if you're one of the first into the stadium) you may catch a glimpse of a trainer handling a small aluminium fence-type structure onto (or off of) some of the 'wet area' on the imagine stage (orangey painted part). This is to prevent a situation that occurred a while back where a bored dolphin beached itself onto the platform and received a nasty sunburn when it became stuck and unable to retreat back into the water. (this is the kind of destructive behaviour i'm referring to)

[rappa]

Do you mean dolphine cove or discovery cove

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Quite right - proof one cannot multitask at work.

I stand corrected and of course meant Dolphin Cove.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

On the weekend just gone, I finally got the opportunity to watch ‘Blackfish’, and I can see why it has had such an impact on the park-going public.

I don’t agree with its message – but I can see why many are suckered in. I’ve got a feeling this post is going to be a pretty long rambling one, so I will try and put a bullet point summation at the end if you don’t feel the need to read the ‘meat’ of it.

If you feel the need to respond, please at least try and read the meat of it first in case something is lost in the summary. Please note that the majority of this is purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated. I haven’t cited specific references to maintain the flow, however where I have referred to other facts or evidence that contradict the park, the information came from sources found on google, including autopsy reports, news articles and Wikipedia (I am aware of the dubious nature of Wiki and accepted information from it with scepticism and a grain or 5 of salt).

A word of warning – this contains spoilers.

First of all, for obvious reasons, there aren’t any current trainers or management from the park – it is well known Sea World Parks declined to take part in the film – according to the director, they declined AFTER they were provided with a list of questions that would be asked in the interview. I read nothing into this except that they did not want to be a part of the film where the questions already suggested an interrogation or poor portrayal of the park in the public’s eyes. Naturally, like any issue with any of our parks where they refuse to comment, it can result in a very one-sided viewpoint, which is usually shown later to be the wrong one.

Secondly, many (not all) of the former trainers interviewed alluded to the park in some way doing them wrong personally, outside of the realm of the whales themselves. They all seemed to have an axe to grind against the park. Some also felt they had been lied to, where the facts are unclear as to whether Sea World in fact knew the supposed truth or not.

With all of that said, many of the statements made by the trainers are non-committal, which is then spun by the filmmaker into a committed statement – ie: frequent use of the words “may have” by the trainers, was further or later subtitled in the film by the “experts” (who had nothing to do with these animals) as being actual facts (apologies I can’t remember the specific lines here, but will go back through the film if necessary).

The film tries to establish early that Orcas live to be 100, and therefore 'hidden camera' footage of SW staff stating 25-35 years is a lie - further compounded by one of them also agreeing that they live 'much longer in captivity due to the care they receive'.

On ages, figures given include up to 100 years for females, and 50 years for males. My research also shows these figures coming up regularly, but more as a 'maximum possible' instead of an average. Averages given state females live 'around 50 years' and males 'around 30' years. Given Tilikum is now 32 years old, that has him surviving 'longer than average'. Further - the stats put forward by SW that 'they live longer in captivity' may be a reflection on their females living longer than 30 years, and therefore seen as 'above average' where they in fact should be expected to live until age 50. My source for this information also suggests captive Orca live less than this - 'usually less than 25 years' - however this is then qualified by saying that some captive animals currently survive into their 40's. Infact - San Diego is home to Corky (female), at 47 years old, and Miami home to the oldest living captive Orca - Lolita (female) at 48.

The argument that the Orcas live less in captivity is also hard to prove - given the oldest living animals in captivity (both male and female) are only now within a year or two of their stated 'wild' average. Other Orca who died previously were not the product of the current wealth of knowledge by researchers and scientists studying the animals. Earlier captives suffered from a lack of knowledge for the animal that we have now, and most of what we now know is a direct result of the millions of dollars spent on research for the housing of these whales.

I want to back up the statement made previously that the film contradicts itself – that sea world is breeding from a genetically predisposed aggressor, after making it clear that Tilikum was made that way by his treatment (which by the way was supposedly done by SeaLand in Victoria, BC Canada).

On the topic of the incident at SeaLand (the first of the deaths supposedly directly attributed to Tilikum) The film states (as does the public record) that all management, officials, staff and investigations suggest it was unclear which whale was the aggressor, but suggests it was one of the two females in that tank that killed the trainer, NOT Tilikum. The film presents two women who were present as guests that day back in 1991 as eyewitnesses who were able to positively identify which of the three whales grabbed her.

I’ve done my own research and there are many different stories and accounts out there, independent of SeaWorld Parks that state Tilikum, or Haida, or Nootka, or a combination of the three (The wiki article on sealand is less specific, simply stating ‘all 3’).

Putting that conjecture aside, one fact that is undisputed is that Tilikum was frequently attacked and bullied by the other two females – so who is the aggressor? That the incident occurred 20 years prior to these two women being interviewed for the film (and given their statements that they were ‘never interviewed’ by authorities after the incident) They are the only ‘proof’ presented by the filmmaker that it was Tilikum that was responsible for the death of Keltie Byrne, yet these two weren’t seen as important enough even to be interviewed by authorities at the time?

For me, there is enough ‘reasonable doubt’ out there that I cannot attribute her death to Tilikum alone or at least directly.

The second death attributed to Tilikum was not a park employee but someone who entered the park covertly or else hid within the park after closure (some stories differ on this point) and proceeded to find his way to the Orca tanks apparently undetected. The film states (on the information of a former trainer) that there are cameras everywhere within the Orca arena, and that the ‘night trainer’ on duty could not have missed seeing this guy (and therefore him not being found until morning must have been a cover up by the park). This of course relies on the ‘night trainer’ actually watching the screens, when more likely – the night trainer was using that time to (i) sleep (ii) catch up on other work, given that on any average day, there wouldn’t usually be much to observe, and would likely be routine and boring.

The guy was found naked, and sprawled across Tilikum’s back. The autopsy found multiple contusions and abrasions, and concluded he died from hypothermia and drowning.

The film suggests that Tilikum had ripped the guys clothes off. Nobody has identified where his clothes were, and he may have simply gone for a swim in the tank (like those idiots at SWGC in the dolphin tank a year back) and decided he wanted dry clothes to wear when he got out. The contusions and abrasions may have been whale caused, or maybe by him climbing over razor wire to enter the park or the Orca arena itself? Who knows?

Extremely circumstantial, and again, for me – enough ‘reasonable doubt’ that I cannot attribute his death to Tilikum. Given the stories of the native Americans about Orcas (and even stories about Dolphins from elsewhere), what’s to say the guy’s body wasn’t on Tilikum’s back because he caught him underwater and brought him back to the surface to try and save him?

The third incident was the death of Dawn Brancheau, and probably the only time Tilikum was definitively the only animal responsible – However former trainers interviewed for the film do point out some mitigating factors – the food bucket was almost empty yet he was still being pushed by the head trainer to perform because of a poor or lacklustre ‘Shamu’ show (by other whales) a few minutes previously.

That Tilikum had demonstrated precisely the behaviour asked of Dawn during the encounter, but failed to hear the bridge recall (the whistle), and so performed the behaviour for an entire lap of the pool is another factor. On returning to his starting position, he was reprimanded by the trainer (they ignore the whale for a few seconds instead of giving it a reward) for doing the wrong thing. This has been cited in articles about the incident as the possible reason for Tilikum’s act, citing prior treatment by Sea Land of withholding food to control the animals.

The former trainers interviewed gave their opinion that ‘at first’ when Tilikum grabbed Dawn, it looked (in their educated view) to be a playful behaviour, that unfortunately degraded into something that resulted in her death.

Sea World was criticised for attempting to mask the details of the actual incident, and the film cites a statement by a representative of the Sheriff’s department (the first media statement after the attack) as proof of this. The Sherriff’s representative stated that Dawn had been grabbed by her ponytail as it was loose (and should have been in a bun). Given Dawn was ‘scalped’, and the interview was not long after the incident, it’s a fairly natural assumption for a police officer to make without further details or review of footage.

The film showed a partial clip immediately after the Sherriff’s statement of a Sea World representative stating that “if Dawn were here, she would state it was her fault too”.

This is portrayed as Sea World trying to blame the trainer for something not her fault. There are several photographs shown of trainers interacting with the Orcas with a long ponytail given as proof that this wasn’t a requirement – but the former trainers agreed that long hair should have been in a bun. These photos of others with long ponytails only serve to show a culture of trainers perhaps not following the rules – “if the head trainer herself wasn’t following procedures, why would any of the others?” meaning potentially those other trainers are just lucky. The SW interview clip is a snippet, and is shown out of context of the interview. Without Sea World’s side to that point, we will never know.

The movie spends a lot of time going over footage and interviews and opinions of Tilikum, however another incident (I think involving Kasatka) occurred where a trainer was repeatedly ‘dunked’, and only his scuba training, and quick thinking saved him. Kasatka is also reported as being responsible for two other acts of aggression – mainly grabbing incidents – one of which occurred where a trainer was identified as doing the wrong thing – interacting with Kasatka without a spotter safety person and placing her feet on her Rostrum (mouth). She was luckily rescued by trainers after being alerted by members of the public who were watching her – and her survival is credited to the quick thinking of a trainer who opened a gate separating that tank from another whale known to be more dominant. (I may have the specific identities of the whales mixed up, however none of them were Tilikum).

These incidents have nothing to do with Tilikum – however there are less restrictions on Sea World trainers interacting with Kasatka, as there are with Tilikum.

The movie also states that Tilikum is kept isolated in a tank since Dawn’s death, separate to the other whales – drawing conclusions and comparisons to the isolation he was subjected to at SeaLand prior to the death of Keltie, (which was done to protect him from the two aggressive females). This is simply not true. Since the incident with Dawn, Tilikum is normally housed in a tank with one or two of his grandchildren – Trua or Malia. Tilikum continues to perform in the One Ocean show, usually alongside Trua.

A further three incidents involving ‘sea world’ whales at another park – Loro Parque in Spain resulted in one death, however each of these incidents involved a separate whale (Tekoa, Skyla and Keto), and trainers now do no waterwork (enter the water) with the whales at all.

(It is worth mentioning that although all 3 whales originated from a Sea World park, Keto is completely unrelated to Tilikum, and yet was the one responsible for the trainer’s death – casting further doubt on the film’s concept of ‘genetic aggression’ being prevalent in Sea World’s breeding program because of Tilikum).

In its final messages, the film concludes with imagery of people arguing for the release of all the whales, (or as compromise) that they be taken to a “sea-pen” to live out the remainder of their lives, and hear the natural rhythm of the ocean.

Keiko (arguably the world’s most famous Orca – as the basis of the ‘free willy’ movies) was subject to similar protests, with over $7million dollars being raised to release Keiko from his park home, with the final step being housing him in a Sea Pen in Iceland (where he was originally captured).

Keiko was unsuccessfully released into the wild once, and subsequently died from Pneumonia after beaching himself. There are around 6 sub-species of Orca, and I’m not aware of which type any of them are, but my layperson’s mind suggests perhaps Keiko was of the migratory kind, used to moving waters with the seasons. Alternatively, his isolation in a controlled environment may have led to the pneumonia once exposed to the seasonal water temperatures of the ocean.

This suggests to me further the inappropriateness of either of those suggestions – releasing them or letting them ‘relax away their retirement’ in a sea pen after they have for many years lived in a controlled water environment, they would be so much more susceptible to illness on being exposed to wild waters.

Onto other points, the film suggests 1% of wild males have dorsal collapse, but all captive males do. A little googling this morning found other figures, suggesting up to 23% of wild males show signs of dorsal collapse, and that although a very high majority – not ALL captive males show dorsal collapse. Further, there are several arguments for why Dorsal collapse occurs, but the high numbers of males in captivity may also be due to the captive gene pools having the same genetic pre-dispositions (coming mostly out of Iceland, Japan or the Northern American areas of the Atlantic).

Lastly as another note - since the OSHA court case, the park has been prohibited from 'waterwork' with Tilikum. An article I found suggested that the park was planning on fitting the tanks with a false floor, capable of raising all animals (and trainers) completely out of the water in seconds in the event of another incident. Looking at the google maps imagery of the Orlando Park, the tank where Dawn was grabbed appears to have been fitted with this floor already.

I’m sure there’s more to say to argue the “for and against”, but I can’t think of any more at this point. Look forward to hearing responses on what I’ve said so far. Let me reiterate that most of what i've said here is my own opinion, formed by watching the film and reading up articles and other web-based information to confirm or disprove my own thoughts and opinions on the "facts" presented by the filmmakers.

As promised – here is the summary:

• Blackfish argues Tilikum made aggressive by subjecting him to cruel and harassed conditions (not caused by Sea World)
• Also argues Tilikum “genetically aggressive” and should not have been the basis of the sea world gene pool
• Aggressive incidents don’t all involve Tilikum’s gene pool, debunking the ‘genetic’ argument
• Those that involve Tilikum directly have conflicting information as to ‘which whale’ attacked
• Only one incident directly, and solely caused by Tilikum, however – mitigating factors are present.
• Many points accuse Sea World of lying or covering up details about incidents or the animals themselves. Most evidence is circumstantial or is just assumed by the filmmakers, or otherwise taken to be true on the word of a former trainer.
• Facts presented by the film – eg: Dorsal collapse are not universally agreed upon by all studies and research and some directly contradicted. Other facts, such as Tilikum’s isolation is just plain false. Life expectancy is also hard to prove disprove one way or another, given the ages of the oldest Orcas in captivity are only just now reaching the stated 'wild' averages.
• The film advocates releasing all captive Orca into the wild, or at least into sea-pens, despite many experts agreeing that wild release of all would be impossible, and history suggesting sea-pens are a death sentence.

The alternative of course would be to euthanise an otherwise healthy animal, which of course would have animal rights groups up in arms about the slaughter - but the facts are clear that there would be no other option if Sea World were not to keep them in their Parks.

(this has gone through a few drafts and had a few changes, so I may have edited something without adjusting the flow of the language inadvertently)

[Richard]

The 23% figure comes from a study in New Zealand waters that found that of 30 males observed, 7 had abnormal dorsal fins -- abnormal including other damage that obviously stems from fights, entanglement etc. Only one male in the study had a fully collapsed fin and the paper specifically states that "complete collapse of the dorsal fin of killer whales does not appear to be common in any population."

http://www.aquaticmammalsjournal.org/share/AquaticMammalsIssueArchives/1998/AquaticMammals_24-02/24-02_Visser.pdf

On the age issue, there's a multitude of websites out there that keep tabs on all orcas in captivity around the globe and they present some pretty startling median and average figures if they're accurate. 30 and 40+ years in captivity exist, but these are the outliers -- in the same category as those 80 and 100+ years in the wild.

I suspect SeaWorld's unwillingness to comment stems from potential legal ramifications as much or more than it would PR -- though whatever the reason, their recent rebuttal was too little, too late to stem the negative reaction. The whole controversy is just about as interesting from a PR perspective as the issues of the film are.

[MacPark]

Seaworld have just created a website called Black Fish truth http://seaworld.com/truth/

A interesting read. Seaworlds PR were a bit slow but its a good counter I think.

[MaxxTheMonster]

Interesting read. In saying that it has prompted me to want to see the film even more to understand more of the information they were discussing.

[BigKev]

I just watched it and it is hard to know what to make of it.

The bit that confused me is why, when Seaworld say they had special protocols for Tilikum, including no in-water work, the footage before the trainer's death shows her lying in the water on a ledge with him.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I don't believe the procotols for no in-water work were in place at the time of Dawn's death - only subsequent to it.

Also - she was standing kneeling in the water, not lying in the water. It's worth pointing out that many marine trainers do this with the animals they train as it's a way to bond, and reward the animal for good behaviour.

The film shows several trainers coming to the aid of two other trainers who were subjected to odd treatment (not all by Tilly) - i'm wondering what was done by the spotter when Dawn was first taken under - as his actions in those first 30-60 seconds could have affected the outcome dramatically.

Satellite imagery of the tank where the incident occurred shows Sea World has made good on their commitment to build fast-rising floors into the tanks. The concept of these floors is that should an incident occur, the spotter needs only to press a button to raise the floor of the tank out of the water thereby preventing drowning.

My only concern is if the whales are smart enough to figure that out, and ensure that they are deliberately on top of them when the floor comes up so that their 3-4 tonne weight crushes the trainer anyhow could be an issue...

If you haven't watched it yet, it's worth watching - but at the same time, I wouldn't give this filmmaker a brass razoo, so I would encourage you to see it through means besides rental or purchase.

[themagician]

SeaWorld are now trying to fight back after the film: http://seaworld.com/truth/?m=1

I've watched the film and it is an eye opener. They should just release them into the wild, but an area where they don't have to face all the creatures and elements of the wild , just like they said in the film. SeaWorld can fight back all they want, but heir fins should not be bent over like thry. Yes they may look after them, but they don't live in a large enough area. It may be big, but it's not the ocean. Killer whales aren't meant to perform, they are ment to be fraction animals that swim in the ocean. It's like if human had to live on a spa bath for years and years. It would be horrible.

[lemmit]

Just wanted to know if anyone wants to purchase a copy of blackfish for region 2 as I didnt realise until after I opened it that it was region 2. It wont work in Australia unless you have a dvd player that can play multi region dvds. I will sell it for $28 as that is how much I paid for it, it also includes postage as well. Please no nasty comments.

Edited March 28, 2014 by lemmit

[Reanimated35]

It wont work in Australia unless you have a dvd player that can play multi region dvds. BASICALLY ANY DVD PLAYER EVER MADE

Post your make & model number and there's a 99% chance you can find the unlock code.

[themagician]

I just googled the make and model of my one and I found easy step by step websites that show how to do it. I'm sure you will be able to find it easily.

[lemmit]

Thanks for that guys il give it a go

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

SeaWorld are now trying to fight back after the film: http://seaworld.com/truth/?m=1

I've watched the film and it is an eye opener. They should just release them into the wild, but an area where they don't have to face all the creatures and elements of the wild , just like they said in the film. SeaWorld can fight back all they want, but heir fins should not be bent over like thry. Yes they may look after them, but they don't live in a large enough area. It may be big, but it's not the ocean. Killer whales aren't meant to perform, they are ment to be fraction animals that swim in the ocean. It's like if human had to live on a spa bath for years and years. It would be horrible.

Ok so here's the thing - they tried that with Keiko (Free Willy) several years ago. It doesn't work.

Orca are migratory - they move to different areas of the ocean as the climate warms and cools. Keiko's Sea-Pen was considered 'large enough' for natural living. Keiko died from complications resulting from pneumonia... which typically results from the cold.

These orca have been captive in climate controlled tanks, with the best veterinary care and food. They are no longer able to regulate temperature in an ocean where temperature fluctuates. They can't hunt for their food, and you would be removing them from their veterinary care at a time when their bodies would be at greatest risk.

Sea World (and other parks) have admitted how wrong it was to capture these healthy animals and hold them in pens, but they are also smart enough to realise that it is too late to put them back. All they can do now is keep them in the best environment possible, and utilise them to teach others about mankind's previous mistakes.

As a social pod animal, they would die without that social interaction, so the breeding program is also necessary.for their continued health, and those bred in captivity know nothing else.

Just because a crackpot that has never worked with Orca prior to filming thinks we should release them all into the wild, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

[themagician]

Ok so here's the thing - they tried that with Keiko (Free Willy) several years ago. It doesn't work.

Orca are migratory - they move to different areas of the ocean as the climate warms and cools. Keiko's Sea-Pen was considered 'large enough' for natural living. Keiko died from complications resulting from pneumonia... which typically results from the cold.

These orca have been captive in climate controlled tanks, with the best veterinary care and food. They are no longer able to regulate temperature in an ocean where temperature fluctuates. They can't hunt for their food, and you would be removing them from their veterinary care at a time when their bodies would be at greatest risk.

Sea World (and other parks) have admitted how wrong it was to capture these healthy animals and hold them in pens, but they are also smart enough to realise that it is too late to put them back. All they can do now is keep them in the best environment possible, and utilise them to teach others about mankind's previous mistakes.

As a social pod animal, they would die without that social interaction, so the breeding program is also necessary.for their continued health, and those bred in captivity know nothing else.

Just because a crackpot that has never worked with Orca prior to filming thinks we should release them all into the wild, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

I never thought about it that way. I don't think SeaWorld should try to get the Orca's to breed anymore. One day these creatures will unfortunately die and when they do SeaWorld should not bother trying to get more whales. I know they have invested a lot of money into the arena and homes for these whales, but they need to realise lately they have had to invest a lot of money into it all. They should then turn the arena into something else.

[Terri Sth East Qld]

How can someone get a copy of this in Australia?

Blackfish is available on DVD & Blu Ray to buy. I am sure it can be hired too.

I bought my copy from Mighty Ape.

Everyone should take time to watch “The Cove” too.

Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one that inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it.

Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

Source: "The Lowest Animal"

I agree that the whales should have much more than plain concrete pools. Discovery Cove is amazing and as pointed out by the germans in the trip report Gazza posted elsewhere a while back - is wonderful, but I think one of the big attractions for the Orca is the underwater viewing areas - this can certainly be implemented in a 'natural' environment (one only has to look at Shark Bay), however this would involve housing the Orcas temporarily in another tank elsewhere, or constructing a temporary one... i'm not sure either is viable for the entire Pod... one perhaps, but I don't think moving all of them is good for their health.

I would like to see them build more natural environments - even if they perhaps used it in a paddock system - letting them 'out to pasture' to play when they are at leisure.

That said, I think Sea World would take a massive hit if they lost them as an element of the park - it's still the number one attraction across their target market - evidenced clearly by the size of the stadium seating and the fact that it is filled - even in drizzling rain - to capacity.

I do want to take to task the 'dorsal fin' debate and point out that wild Orcas have been observed with a collapsed dorsal, and I believe it is not just related to captivity, but sometimes to the length size of the fin being too much to hold erect. I don't want to belabour the point, but i've heard evidence both ways.

On the GC park and our SW Dolphin show - i'm not sure I understand what you mean? Are you suggesting the dolphins at our Sea World do behaviours purely for entertainment rather than their natural actions or those to keep them mentally stimulated?

What is with people, greed & money is more important than being ethical & moral?

If people want to see whales/dolphins go out on Sea World’s Whale Watching Boats. Why do human have to cage any wildlife?

But then Aussie have the world record for massacring wildlife and have caused the extinction of more animals in 226 years (White man’s invasion) than any other country has in thousands of years. And every year we are adding more to the extinct list.

On the weekend just gone, I finally got the opportunity to watch ‘Blackfish’, and I can see why it has had such an impact on the park-going public.

I don’t agree with its message – but I can see why many are suckered in. I’ve got a feeling this post is going to be a pretty long rambling one, so I will try and put a bullet point summation at the end if you don’t feel the need to read the ‘meat’ of it.

If you feel the need to respond, please at least try and read the meat of it first in case something is lost in the summary. Please note that the majority of this is purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated. I haven’t cited specific references to maintain the flow, however where I have referred to other facts or evidence that contradict the park, the information came from sources found on google, including autopsy reports, news articles and Wikipedia (I am aware of the dubious nature of Wiki and accepted information from it with scepticism and a grain or 5 of salt).

A word of warning – this contains spoilers.

First of all, for obvious reasons, there aren’t any current trainers or management from the park – it is well known Sea World Parks declined to take part in the film – according to the director, they declined AFTER they were provided with a list of questions that would be asked in the interview. I read nothing into this except that they did not want to be a part of the film where the questions already suggested an interrogation or poor portrayal of the park in the public’s eyes. Naturally, like any issue with any of our parks where they refuse to comment, it can result in a very one-sided viewpoint, which is usually shown later to be the wrong one.

Secondly, many (not all) of the former trainers interviewed alluded to the park in some way doing them wrong personally, outside of the realm of the whales themselves. They all seemed to have an axe to grind against the park. Some also felt they had been lied to, where the facts are unclear as to whether Sea World in fact knew the supposed truth or not.

With all of that said, many of the statements made by the trainers are non-committal, which is then spun by the filmmaker into a committed statement – ie: frequent use of the words “may have” by the trainers, was further or later subtitled in the film by the “experts” (who had nothing to do with these animals) as being actual facts (apologies I can’t remember the specific lines here, but will go back through the film if necessary).

The film tries to establish early that Orcas live to be 100, and therefore 'hidden camera' footage of SW staff stating 25-35 years is a lie - further compounded by one of them also agreeing that they live 'much longer in captivity due to the care they receive'.

On ages, figures given include up to 100 years for females, and 50 years for males. My research also shows these figures coming up regularly, but more as a 'maximum possible' instead of an average. Averages given state females live 'around 50 years' and males 'around 30' years. Given Tilikum is now 32 years old, that has him surviving 'longer than average'. Further - the stats put forward by SW that 'they live longer in captivity' may be a reflection on their females living longer than 30 years, and therefore seen as 'above average' where they in fact should be expected to live until age 50. My source for this information also suggests captive Orca live less than this - 'usually less than 25 years' - however this is then qualified by saying that some captive animals currently survive into their 40's. Infact - San Diego is home to Corky (female), at 47 years old, and Miami home to the oldest living captive Orca - Lolita (female) at 48.

The argument that the Orcas live less in captivity is also hard to prove - given the oldest living animals in captivity (both male and female) are only now within a year or two of their stated 'wild' average. Other Orca who died previously were not the product of the current wealth of knowledge by researchers and scientists studying the animals. Earlier captives suffered from a lack of knowledge for the animal that we have now, and most of what we now know is a direct result of the millions of dollars spent on research for the housing of these whales.

I want to back up the statement made previously that the film contradicts itself – that sea world is breeding from a genetically predisposed aggressor, after making it clear that Tilikum was made that way by his treatment (which by the way was supposedly done by SeaLand in Victoria, BC Canada).

On the topic of the incident at SeaLand (the first of the deaths supposedly directly attributed to Tilikum) The film states (as does the public record) that all management, officials, staff and investigations suggest it was unclear which whale was the aggressor, but suggests it was one of the two females in that tank that killed the trainer, NOT Tilikum. The film presents two women who were present as guests that day back in 1991 as eyewitnesses who were able to positively identify which of the three whales grabbed her.

I’ve done my own research and there are many different stories and accounts out there, independent of SeaWorld Parks that state Tilikum, or Haida, or Nootka, or a combination of the three (The wiki article on sealand is less specific, simply stating ‘all 3’).

Putting that conjecture aside, one fact that is undisputed is that Tilikum was frequently attacked and bullied by the other two females – so who is the aggressor? That the incident occurred 20 years prior to these two women being interviewed for the film (and given their statements that they were ‘never interviewed’ by authorities after the incident) They are the only ‘proof’ presented by the filmmaker that it was Tilikum that was responsible for the death of Keltie Byrne, yet these two weren’t seen as important enough even to be interviewed by authorities at the time?

For me, there is enough ‘reasonable doubt’ out there that I cannot attribute her death to Tilikum alone or at least directly.

The second death attributed to Tilikum was not a park employee but someone who entered the park covertly or else hid within the park after closure (some stories differ on this point) and proceeded to find his way to the Orca tanks apparently undetected. The film states (on the information of a former trainer) that there are cameras everywhere within the Orca arena, and that the ‘night trainer’ on duty could not have missed seeing this guy (and therefore him not being found until morning must have been a cover up by the park). This of course relies on the ‘night trainer’ actually watching the screens, when more likely – the night trainer was using that time to (i) sleep (ii) catch up on other work, given that on any average day, there wouldn’t usually be much to observe, and would likely be routine and boring.

The guy was found naked, and sprawled across Tilikum’s back. The autopsy found multiple contusions and abrasions, and concluded he died from hypothermia and drowning.

The film suggests that Tilikum had ripped the guys clothes off. Nobody has identified where his clothes were, and he may have simply gone for a swim in the tank (like those idiots at SWGC in the dolphin tank a year back) and decided he wanted dry clothes to wear when he got out. The contusions and abrasions may have been whale caused, or maybe by him climbing over razor wire to enter the park or the Orca arena itself? Who knows?

Extremely circumstantial, and again, for me – enough ‘reasonable doubt’ that I cannot attribute his death to Tilikum. Given the stories of the native Americans about Orcas (and even stories about Dolphins from elsewhere), what’s to say the guy’s body wasn’t on Tilikum’s back because he caught him underwater and brought him back to the surface to try and save him?

The third incident was the death of Dawn Brancheau, and probably the only time Tilikum was definitively the only animal responsible – However former trainers interviewed for the film do point out some mitigating factors – the food bucket was almost empty yet he was still being pushed by the head trainer to perform because of a poor or lacklustre ‘Shamu’ show (by other whales) a few minutes previously.

That Tilikum had demonstrated precisely the behaviour asked of Dawn during the encounter, but failed to hear the bridge recall (the whistle), and so performed the behaviour for an entire lap of the pool is another factor. On returning to his starting position, he was reprimanded by the trainer (they ignore the whale for a few seconds instead of giving it a reward) for doing the wrong thing. This has been cited in articles about the incident as the possible reason for Tilikum’s act, citing prior treatment by Sea Land of withholding food to control the animals.

The former trainers interviewed gave their opinion that ‘at first’ when Tilikum grabbed Dawn, it looked (in their educated view) to be a playful behaviour, that unfortunately degraded into something that resulted in her death.

Sea World was criticised for attempting to mask the details of the actual incident, and the film cites a statement by a representative of the Sheriff’s department (the first media statement after the attack) as proof of this. The Sherriff’s representative stated that Dawn had been grabbed by her ponytail as it was loose (and should have been in a bun). Given Dawn was ‘scalped’, and the interview was not long after the incident, it’s a fairly natural assumption for a police officer to make without further details or review of footage.

The film showed a partial clip immediately after the Sherriff’s statement of a Sea World representative stating that “if Dawn were here, she would state it was her fault too”.

This is portrayed as Sea World trying to blame the trainer for something not her fault. There are several photographs shown of trainers interacting with the Orcas with a long ponytail given as proof that this wasn’t a requirement – but the former trainers agreed that long hair should have been in a bun. These photos of others with long ponytails only serve to show a culture of trainers perhaps not following the rules – “if the head trainer herself wasn’t following procedures, why would any of the others?” meaning potentially those other trainers are just lucky. The SW interview clip is a snippet, and is shown out of context of the interview. Without Sea World’s side to that point, we will never know.

The movie spends a lot of time going over footage and interviews and opinions of Tilikum, however another incident (I think involving Kasatka) occurred where a trainer was repeatedly ‘dunked’, and only his scuba training, and quick thinking saved him. Kasatka is also reported as being responsible for two other acts of aggression – mainly grabbing incidents – one of which occurred where a trainer was identified as doing the wrong thing – interacting with Kasatka without a spotter safety person and placing her feet on her Rostrum (mouth). She was luckily rescued by trainers after being alerted by members of the public who were watching her – and her survival is credited to the quick thinking of a trainer who opened a gate separating that tank from another whale known to be more dominant. (I may have the specific identities of the whales mixed up, however none of them were Tilikum).

These incidents have nothing to do with Tilikum – however there are less restrictions on Sea World trainers interacting with Kasatka, as there are with Tilikum.

The movie also states that Tilikum is kept isolated in a tank since Dawn’s death, separate to the other whales – drawing conclusions and comparisons to the isolation he was subjected to at SeaLand prior to the death of Keltie, (which was done to protect him from the two aggressive females). This is simply not true. Since the incident with Dawn, Tilikum is normally housed in a tank with one or two of his grandchildren – Trua or Malia. Tilikum continues to perform in the One Ocean show, usually alongside Trua.

A further three incidents involving ‘sea world’ whales at another park – Loro Parque in Spain resulted in one death, however each of these incidents involved a separate whale (Tekoa, Skyla and Keto), and trainers now do no waterwork (enter the water) with the whales at all.

(It is worth mentioning that although all 3 whales originated from a Sea World park, Keto is completely unrelated to Tilikum, and yet was the one responsible for the trainer’s death – casting further doubt on the film’s concept of ‘genetic aggression’ being prevalent in Sea World’s breeding program because of Tilikum).

In its final messages, the film concludes with imagery of people arguing for the release of all the whales, (or as compromise) that they be taken to a “sea-pen” to live out the remainder of their lives, and hear the natural rhythm of the ocean.

Keiko (arguably the world’s most famous Orca – as the basis of the ‘free willy’ movies) was subject to similar protests, with over $7million dollars being raised to release Keiko from his park home, with the final step being housing him in a Sea Pen in Iceland (where he was originally captured).

Keiko was unsuccessfully released into the wild once, and subsequently died from Pneumonia after beaching himself. There are around 6 sub-species of Orca, and I’m not aware of which type any of them are, but my layperson’s mind suggests perhaps Keiko was of the migratory kind, used to moving waters with the seasons. Alternatively, his isolation in a controlled environment may have led to the pneumonia once exposed to the seasonal water temperatures of the ocean.

This suggests to me further the inappropriateness of either of those suggestions – releasing them or letting them ‘relax away their retirement’ in a sea pen after they have for many years lived in a controlled water environment, they would be so much more susceptible to illness on being exposed to wild waters.

Onto other points, the film suggests 1% of wild males have dorsal collapse, but all captive males do. A little googling this morning found other figures, suggesting up to 23% of wild males show signs of dorsal collapse, and that although a very high majority – not ALL captive males show dorsal collapse. Further, there are several arguments for why Dorsal collapse occurs, but the high numbers of males in captivity may also be due to the captive gene pools having the same genetic pre-dispositions (coming mostly out of Iceland, Japan or the Northern American areas of the Atlantic).

Lastly as another note - since the OSHA court case, the park has been prohibited from 'waterwork' with Tilikum. An article I found suggested that the park was planning on fitting the tanks with a false floor, capable of raising all animals (and trainers) completely out of the water in seconds in the event of another incident. Looking at the google maps imagery of the Orlando Park, the tank where Dawn was grabbed appears to have been fitted with this floor already.

I’m sure there’s more to say to argue the “for and against”, but I can’t think of any more at this point. Look forward to hearing responses on what I’ve said so far. Let me reiterate that most of what i've said here is my own opinion, formed by watching the film and reading up articles and other web-based information to confirm or disprove my own thoughts and opinions on the "facts" presented by the filmmakers.

As promised – here is the summary:

• Blackfish argues Tilikum made aggressive by subjecting him to cruel and harassed conditions (not caused by Sea World)
• Also argues Tilikum “genetically aggressive” and should not have been the basis of the sea world gene pool
• Aggressive incidents don’t all involve Tilikum’s gene pool, debunking the ‘genetic’ argument
• Those that involve Tilikum directly have conflicting information as to ‘which whale’ attacked
• Only one incident directly, and solely caused by Tilikum, however – mitigating factors are present.
• Many points accuse Sea World of lying or covering up details about incidents or the animals themselves. Most evidence is circumstantial or is just assumed by the filmmakers, or otherwise taken to be true on the word of a former trainer.
• Facts presented by the film – eg: Dorsal collapse are not universally agreed upon by all studies and research and some directly contradicted. Other facts, such as Tilikum’s isolation is just plain false. Life expectancy is also hard to prove disprove one way or another, given the ages of the oldest Orcas in captivity are only just now reaching the stated 'wild' averages.
• The film advocates releasing all captive Orca into the wild, or at least into sea-pens, despite many experts agreeing that wild release of all would be impossible, and history suggesting sea-pens are a death sentence.

The alternative of course would be to euthanise an otherwise healthy animal, which of course would have animal rights groups up in arms about the slaughter - but the facts are clear that there would be no other option if Sea World were not to keep them in their Parks.

(this has gone through a few drafts and had a few changes, so I may have edited something without adjusting the flow of the language inadvertently)

You failed to mention the trespasser that was killed also had his penis & testicle ripped off. Why didn’t the Night Trainer hear screams?

[Brad2912]

Hi, welcome to the page.

We're a group of theme park enthusiasts here, and from your one and only post thus far, it seems the only reason you've joined is to blow the 'save the animals' trumpet.

If you love theme parks and want to contribute to discussions that's awesome, but if you are just going to post agenda driven dribble I'm sure there is a better outlet for you somewhere else.

If you are also going to take a shot at 'aussies' whether on the basis of history or otherwise, I'd again recommend you find elsewhere to do so

Edited December 26, 2014 by Brad2912

[Terri Sth East Qld]

Post your make & model number and there's a 99% chance you can find the unlock code.

I have two DVDs purchased in Australia and they both are multi region.

Hi, welcome to the page.

We're a group of theme park enthusiasts here, and from your one and only post thus far, it seems the only reason you've joined is to blow the 'save the animals' trumpet.

If you love theme parks and want to contribute to discussions that's awesome, but if you are just going to post agenda driven dribble I'm sure there is a better outlet for you somewhere else.

If you are also going to take a shot at 'aussies' whether on the basis of history or otherwise, I'd again recommend you find elsewhere to do so

I only took a ‘shot’ at selfish & self centred Aussie. If you aren’t that sort of Aussie you should feel guilty & respond as you have.

And for people who want to see & interact with wild dolphins there are many places in most Aussie States to do that. But beware dolphins get rough with humans they also BITE hard.

[Brad2912]

I don't think as a first time poster on these forums you have a right to criticise or take a shot at anyone, whether pro animal captivity or not. Are you saying anyone who supports SeaWorld and enjoys the shows are selfish and self-centred?

[Terri Sth East Qld]

Sea World Director of Marine Sciences Trevor Long is worth his weight in Platinum when it comes to marine wildlife.

I have personally worked with him on rescues. I have his personal mb # & have called him mid weekend while he is out on his boat with family and nothing in regards to helping marine wildlife is too much for him.

He has also be recognised by his peers for his knowledge, dedication, expertise (include designing a harness for beached whale rescues). He is extensive involved in Marine Wildlife Conservation.

SEA WORLD ICON RECEIVES INDUSTRY EXCELLENCE AWARD

http://mediacentre.myfun.com.au/press/press_details.cfm?pressid=222&location=7

I don't think as a first time poster on these forums you have a right to criticise or take a shot at anyone, whether pro animal captivity or not. Are you saying anyone who supports SeaWorld and enjoys the shows are selfish and self-centred?

I love Sea World Australia, they do some unbelievable things for Maine Wildlife. The same can NOT be said for the thirteen other Marine Parks in the world who’s ONLY priority is money. They are working on legislation that prohibits “rubber necks” from going near a beached whale Australia wide. In past Sea World rescuers have been abused by rubber necks. Sea World Australia staff are especially trained to rescue whales and then ignorant idiots abusing them & telling what should be doing.

Yes I am saying that anyone that supports Sea World USA or any of the 13 Marine Parks around the world are ignorant, selfish & self centred. Are you aware that Sea World in USA now drill out Orcas death so they can’t bite trainers. No anaesthetic, no pain relief ect.

But then with people like you who live their lives either being ignorant or immoral. It is OK to go & have fun enjoy a show where wild animals suffer cruelty.

This study from the UK about Orcas in captive HELL.

“Dying to Entertain you.”

First the facts:

• At least 134 orcas have been taken into captivity from the wild since 1961. One hundred and six (79%) are now dead. (An additional male escaped after 2.25 years in captivity. His fate is unknown.)

• Of the 107 which died, average length of survival in captivity was under six years (range: 1 day - 27.2 years).

• Most captives die before they reach their early 20s, yet in the wild, females may live as long as 80 years or more.

• As of August 2000, a total of 49 orcas (26 wild-caught and 23 captive-born calves) are held in 13 marine parks in five countries.1 There is also a male
  orca, Keiko, now in a seapen in his native Icelandic waters, as the second stage of a rehabilitation and release programme.

• Of 59 known pregnancies in captivity since 1968, only 23 calves (38%) have survived.

• Sea World owns 22 orcas, 44% of the world-wide captive total. Around 10 million people visit Sea World parks annually. Sea World has itself estimated that as much as 70% of its income derives from visitors attracted by the orca shows.2

I don't think as a first time poster on these forums you have a right to criticise or take a shot at anyone, whether pro animal captivity or not. Are you saying anyone who supports SeaWorld and enjoys the shows are selfish and self-centred?

What you aren’t prepared to educate your self so you can continue to be ignorant? People like should “Pay if Forward”. Give back to society, the planet what ever. Volunteer at a Marine Park and actual do some good.