Return of Sydney Wonderland?

[Bussy]

The time frame for construction to start is 3-5 years at the moment. 'The Bus is now leaving for Five Acre Plain, Victoria'

[Franny Adams]

From the artist impressions of what a future "Wonderland" would be like, I rather not go to it. If it's just going to be buildings like shops with a roller coaster here and an amusement ride there. I mean why can they not get a Disney Franchise if that is the case?

[JeffreyMoore]

while it will be good to see a new wonderland open in Sydney its a shame there is no business case to use the hanna barbera franchise in todays market

just wont ever feel the same for me without the hanna barbera characters but here's hopeing thay can get a licence to a franchise of some sort ?

Edited December 28, 2013 by JeffreyMoore

[zacsta_1997]

Please don't make the same mistake as luna park and add restaurants and concert Venues. A theme park is a place filled with rides and food STALLS that's enough for a theme park.

[Brad2912]

From the artist impressions of what a future "Wonderland" would be like, I rather not go to it. If it's just going to be buildings like shops with a roller coaster here and an amusement ride there. I mean why can they not get a Disney Franchise if that is the case?

There are plenty of threads about Disney and Australian operations. It's not as simple as 'let open a Disney franchise'

[Gary86]

Will the new Wonderland be Australia's largest theme park like the original one was? If it is Dreamworld would need to change their billboard!

Edited December 28, 2013 by Gary86

[Reanimated35]

1 - It won't go ahead.

2 - If it does go ahead, it really shouldn't be marketed as Wonderland, from the pics we've seen so far it would be like pissing on the grave of the old Wonderland.

3 - We have what, 1x Coaster, a chair-o-plane, 2x Drop towers (wtf) and a Sky Swing for rides, then just a shit-tonne of shops.

Edited December 28, 2013 by reanimated35

[Franny Adams]

I went on to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/sydneyswonderland

The guy who is discussing says there is THREE new theme parks in deep discussion with planning. This includes "Wonderland Boulevard" WTF "Boulevard"? So not really a theme park just an inner west version of Luna Park with shops and rides.

[joz]

The thing about this to me is the rendering is is a sterile, uninteresting row of shops with a couple of rides (which aren't similar to rides which were at the original park) in the background. It'd be like if Disneyland closed down, and many years later someone built a row of shops with a couple of rides and said "Look, we've rebuilt Disneyland!" They're not rebuilding Wonderland, they're opening something totally different called Wonderland (they hope). It's mixed commercial, which means restaurants, shopping and amusements. That's could be either a good or a bad thing. Remember, Wonderland was a bit stale relic when it closed. They aren't bound by what Wonderland was, so they might end up doing something truly amazing. Or they could build what's in the rendering, which is an uninteresting ride collection, presented uninterestingly, in an uninteresting setting with uninteresting rows of restaurants. Having said all that, I doubt that the rendering is anything solid. It looks like it's just supposed to communicate the concept of restaurants and rides in the same development to investors.

Edited December 28, 2013 by joz

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Regardless of where the development is now, the renderings were done back when it was a two-bit proposal by a development guy.

From what I understand it has grown from that but nobody has updated the renderings yet.

If they manage to get enough thrust to hover off the ground, i dare say they'd throw in a better plan and really begin working on it... I doubt we're going to see a 'wonderland' theme park, more of a citywalk downtown disney to start with to anchor it and get some revenue flowing, and then bringing on more attractions and infrastructure as time allows.

The key now will be to leverage off WnW so they need to build somewhere within relatively close proximity to it.

[Reanimated35]

The key now will be to leverage off WnW so they need to build somewhere within relatively close proximity to it.

Before VRTP get their proposal in to do the same.

[Brad2912]

Before VRTP get their proposal in to do the same.

Do you think VRTP would consider a full theme park (ie movieworld)?? I can't see it happening with the next 5-10 years.

[Reanimated35]

With the popularity of WnW, and the amount of people asking for a themepark in, well, pretty much anywhere except the Gold Coast, I'd say while we may not see development on it just yet, that they may be very well be doing some research in the area

[JeffreyMoore]

if VRTP have ever been looking at a theme park in Sydney im sure thay whould have saved wonderland whould have been much cheaper then starting a new park

I don't see them building a new theme park other then WNWS

if wonderland chould not make a profit that made it worth adding new rides other then the couple it did in its 19 years

while I hope its not true I don't see much chance of a theme park the size of wonderland - gold coast parks been built in Sydney - NSW again

when wonderland was sold to sunway in 1997 the partners that built the park sold out as thay said it was a under performing asset even back then that it sold for 15 million less then it cost to build the park in 1984-85

Edited December 29, 2013 by JeffreyMoore

[joz]

There's a few things to mention about this. Firstly, the thing about the amusement industry is you don't add new attractions because the park is successful, you add then to make your park successful. Wonderland was left to rot and die on the vine by Sunway. There's no other good reason why the park failed. There were a few creative things done by park management to try to save it, but Sunway were uninterested in investing to make the park work. I also think under performing is different to generating a loss. Wonderland opened with huge attendance predictions that it never hit, but businesses don't run for 30 years without making money. It must have done 'OK', just never as high as the lofty predictions. Sydney has a bit of a history of attractions opening with high expectations that aren't met (Sega World, Fox Studios, Wonderland) Then you've got Wet 'n' Wild however. They set themselves a huge goal of around 900,000 a year when they thought they were going to open in September. They're going to get reasonably close with a fair chunk of the calendar taken away with a late opening. I think it's fair to say that the early results have been massively promising. To say a company like Village Roadshow, who are talking openly about having a desire to open new parks would never be interested in building a full scale park in Sydney is pessimistic. They nearly built one in Melbourne, and they've now got a pretty decent toe hold on Sydney, and think about how successful they have been about turning one successful property into 5 successful properties on the Gold Coast. I think it'll take the continued success of Wet 'n' Wild for Village to consider a full park seriously, but I wouldn't be surprised if it they did consider it down the line. I also think that a next generation full park in Sydney is inevitable. Wether it's Village or someone else is anyone's guess.

[JeffreyMoore]

There's a few things to mention about this. Firstly, the thing about the amusement industry is you don't add new attractions because the park is successful, you add then to make your park successful. Wonderland was left to rot and die on the vine by Sunway. There's no other good reason why the park failed. There were a few creative things done by park management to try to save it, but Sunway were uninterested in investing to make the park work. I also think under performing is different to generating a loss. Wonderland opened with huge attendance predictions that it never hit, but businesses don't run for 30 years without making money. It must have done 'OK', just never as high as the lofty predictions. Sydney has a bit of a history of attractions opening with high expectations that aren't met (Sega World, Fox Studios, Wonderland) Then you've got Wet 'n' Wild however. They set themselves a huge goal of around 900,000 a year when they thought they were going to open in September. They're going to get reasonably close with a fair chunk of the calendar taken away with a late opening. I think it's fair to say that the early results have been massively promising. To say a company like Village Roadshow, who are talking openly about having a desire to open new parks would never be interested in building a full scale park in Sydney is pessimistic. They nearly built one in Melbourne, and they've now got a pretty decent toe hold on Sydney, and think about how successful they have been about turning one successful property into 5 successful properties on the Gold Coast. I think it'll take the continued success of Wet 'n' Wild for Village to consider a full park seriously, but I wouldn't be surprised if it they did consider it down the line. I also think that a next generation full park in Sydney is inevitable. Wether it's Village or someone else is anyone's guess.

while I agree with what you have said I just feel if there was ever any other interest in building a theme park in Sydney thay would have saved wonderland off sunway

I maybe - am wrong too just what I think would have happened

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

if VRTP have ever been looking at a theme park in Sydney im sure thay whould they would have saved wonderland whould have been much cheaper then starting a new park

I don't see them building a new theme park other then WNWS

if wonderland chould could not make a profit that made it worth adding new rides other then the couple it did in its 19 years

while I hope its not true I don't see much chance of a theme park the size of wonderland - gold coast parks been built in Sydney - NSW again

when wonderland was sold to sunway in 1997 the partners that built the park sold out as thay said it was a under performing asset even back then that it sold for 15 million less then it cost to build the park in 1984-85

while I agree with what you have said I just feel if there was ever any other interest in building a theme park in Sydney thay would have saved wonderland off sunway

I maybe - am wrong too just what I think would have happened

Putting poor spelling and grammar aside for a minute - VRTP was a very different beast in 2004. With the exception of the 3 anchor attractions on the gold coast, the expansions that VRTP have delved into have mostly been water parks - which are generally cheaper and lower risk.

VRTP was not in a position to spend the money necessary to 'save wonderland'. Believe me - there wasn't much anyone could have done to save it.

Wonderland was not the kind of park to take on - it was built sprawled out across much more land than was necessary. The park could have been condensed at least twice over without much bother.

It also wasn't the right time to be operating a standalone theme park in western sydney. Despite all the other reasons for closure - the public reasons given by Stephen Galbraith were quite real effects on tourism including SARS Bird Swine Flu, Terrorism, and entering into a new business venture at that time was probably not the best investment opportunity.

There's a few things to mention about this. Firstly, the thing about the amusement industry is you don't add new attractions because the park is successful, you add then to make your park successful. Wonderland was left to rot and die on the vine by Sunway. There's no other good reason why the park failed. There were a few creative things done by park management to try to save it, but Sunway were uninterested in investing to make the park work. I also think under performing is different to generating a loss. Wonderland opened with huge attendance predictions that it never hit, but businesses don't run for 30 years without making money. It must have done 'OK', just never as high as the lofty predictions. Sydney has a bit of a history of attractions opening with high expectations that aren't met (Sega World, Fox Studios, Wonderland) Then you've got Wet 'n' Wild however. They set themselves a huge goal of around 900,000 a year when they thought they were going to open in September. They're going to get reasonably close with a fair chunk of the calendar taken away with a late opening. I think it's fair to say that the early results have been massively promising. To say a company like Village Roadshow, who are talking openly about having a desire to open new parks would never be interested in building a full scale park in Sydney is pessimistic. They nearly built one in Melbourne, and they've now got a pretty decent toe hold on Sydney, and think about how successful they have been about turning one successful property into 5 successful properties on the Gold Coast. I think it'll take the continued success of Wet 'n' Wild for Village to consider a full park seriously, but I wouldn't be surprised if it they did consider it down the line. I also think that a next generation full park in Sydney is inevitable. Wether it's Village or someone else is anyone's guess.

Doing the math though, a September-April season works out to be about an average of 3750 people per day... To hit that magic number with a december opening only increases it to around 5000 per day. With park capacity at 22,000 - around 4 times the amount required, and likely to hit that frequently for two months solid - they'll hit a million visitors before February.

Naturally they won't hit capacity every day, but they'll meet attendance targets without an issue.

My question is - how much land is around there if they wanted to build other parks in close proximity?

[JeffreyMoore]

sorry for the spelling

ok just think if there was anyone interested in having a theme park in Sydney thay would have saved wonderland as it would have - will cost a lot more to open a new park

as for the land that's the main reason why wonderland would have been saved as land was and is now worth $$$$$

finding and paying for the amount of land needed in a place around western Sydney would be hard to come by today

Edited December 30, 2013 by JeffreyMoore

[aussienetman]

I think there is a bigger chance of village opening a new (albeit small) waterpark in Perth then building a new theme park in sydney.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

sorry for the spelling

ok just think if there was anyone interested in having a theme park in Sydney thay would have saved wonderland as it would have - will cost a lot more to open a new park

as for the land that's the main reason why wonderland would have been saved as land was and is now worth $$$$$

finding and paying for the amount of land needed in a place around western Sydney would be hard to come by today

Just down the road from me, a large franchised car dealership opened up a new dealership. A few blocks away is an old abandoned car dealership that went out of business 8 years ago, that has been up for sale ever since. That car dealership should have just bought the old lot, instead of building a brand new one the way they wanted it... right?

[Bussy]

No one was ever going to save Wonderland because Subway didn't want it to be saved their only interest was the land it was sitting on. Do you think VRTP would have been willing to pay more than $52 million for a park that was past its prime and needed several new attractions to bring some life back to it? Stop flogging a dead horse Wonderland Sydney is gone, hopefully Sydney's Wonderland gets up and running. Franny, zacsta, I personally think that for a venture like this to be a successful venture and for Ammar to get enough investors onboard it needs to be more that just rides, it needs the restaurant strip and entertainment section (both separate from the rides section) to do that. Jeffery Hanna Barbera is not relavant is this day in age, not many people under 30 would know what it was or who any of their characters were. It's time to move on. AlexB WnWS capacity may be 22000 but they would get more than that on capacity days due to how long they are open for and people leaving and being replaced with newcomers. I think they will get well over the million mark this season and probably next. Yet another reason I won't be going this year or next at least. "The Bus is now leaving for Hanna Family Park, NSW"

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

they would get more than that on capacity days due to how long they are open for and people leaving and being replaced with newcomers.

LOL. I have this image of a burly maori bouncer wearing a red-and-yellow SLS skullcap standing at the gate with a queue of people in floaties, waiting for someone to leave so he can lift a velvet rope and allow the next group in.

Are people actually queueing waiting for people to leave so that they can get in?

What about pass-outs? If someone goes back to their car to get something - do they get back in or what?

[Gazza]

sorry for the spelling

ok just think if there was anyone interested in having a theme park in Sydney thay would have saved wonderland as it would have - will cost a lot more to open a new park

as for the land that's the main reason why wonderland would have been saved as land was and is now worth $$$$$

finding and paying for the amount of land needed in a place around western Sydney would be hard to come by today

Ready for a horrifying statement guys? Wonderland wasn't that good.

If I were looking to enter the Sydney market, I wouldn't be trying to re-work and renovate an old, overly spread out park with 80% crappy attractions, and having to deal with decades old facilities. I'd do something brand spankin' new, properly built for purpose.

Yes you'd have to pay for additional infrastructure at a new park, but you'd save that money through lower maintenance bills on a newer park (Remember, a huge chunk of Wonderlands rides were second hand), and potentially less land (Think how much Movie World squeezes into it. Universal Singapore is another example, a lot of rides, but not a whole lot of pathways that need to be kept clean and so on)