New Park in Sydney...

[supersimpsons]

Hi, I'm a new member and I would like to start by saying it's great to see forum dedicated to coasters and theme parks - epecially those in Australia. I am disappointed in Wonderland's closure. Yes, the park had some problems, but it served Sydney well overall. I would like to be optimistic and talk about new theme parks in Sydney. Their location, rides, and such. Sure, a new park may be years away, but it's okay to hope. So your opinions? PS: Incase you're wondering about my nickname, it's email address and apart of my site address.

[Daniel]

Firstly mate, this thread is probably more suited to General Thrills, but however, we shall soldier on for now. I'm not so sure Sydney will get another theme park. I would like to think so, but I can't see it. Where would you suggest they put it? Land is too valuable as industrial, commercial and residential land I think you'll find. The best you're going to get in Luna Park. My personal opinion is, no, we won't get another park.

[Richard]

Welcome along. I've slipped this thread over to General Thrills. Let's keep it going from there! Daniel's right. There's this wonderful four million population figure floating around, but unfortunately that means no where easily obvious to put the park, especially if these four million are going to have homes, jobs or services. Wonderland had huge potential - they had the land, so it was just a matter of developing the place appropriately to cash in on these locals, which unfortunately didn't really happen in the later years. You know, Dreamworld was originally planned for Sydney, but way back in the early 1970's it proved impossible to find a suitable location - eventually they chose a swamp half an hour from absolutely anything over what was available in Sydney. If 30 years ago someone found it difficult to find anything suitable, even if they didn't look hard enough, what are your chances 30 years later, after the effects of urban sprawl have kicked in and are constantly gobbling whatever is left.

[ScReAMmachine!]

As Sydney's urban sprawl continues to grow, particulary in the Western Sydney... the opportunity may arise for (dare i say) another theme park. My possible locations would include the area between Liverpool-Camden and Windsor as possible locations. The old Telstra/Defence land in Doonside (bordered by the M7, GWH and Doonside Road) is large enough, inside Blacktown Council and close to Wonderland's site. Homebush Bay would be ideal but would certainly be knocked back for environmental concerns. But in the interim, enjoy luna park

[GoGoBoy]

Weren't there some rumours around that the Olympic Park site was going to be turned into a theme park? I remember reading somewhere on these forums that the government was trying to encourage a theme park to take up residence there. It would be the perfect spot. It's kind of a middle ground... not to close to the city and not too far. Lots of the infrastructure is already there as well as plenty of transport options. I think judging by the attendance Wonderland was getting over the last year, even though nothing had been added to the park for 10 years, is proof that there is demand in Sydney for a large outdoor theme park. Not to mention the numbers which are streaming into Wonderland now to have one last visit... this has made the potential even more obvious

[screammachine]

The Olympic Park area wouldnt be to bad acrtually. You guys would not believe how much the prices has dropped to get people to hire venues over there! It was popular during the Olympics but not anymore. It wouldnt be a bad area to have one either. It would be easier to get to for me if it was there. On that same note i'v heard the same rumour GoBoi is talkin about. I heard about three years ago that Six Flags had looked into building at the site, but who knows what happend to that idea. With the ideas concering space... Try coming up to the northern suburbs. There is a fair amount of space over here. Its mainly a bit inland but it should do! But here is to wishfull Thinkin!!! Screammachine

[Johno]

Welcome supersimpsons! As I would like to say that it would be awesome to see Six Flags buy in Australia (which I hope) And yes Wonderland did draw in millions of people, and when it does close those won't have anything to do! I know that Wonderland wasn't the best theme park but, if it had the right people behind it, it would of gone super bomba BIG! Shame on SuNwAy! I hope that some how some way Wonderland will stay open, I know some people say that it's not that great but, they will miss it when it's gone! Think of Space Probe! There is no other Space Probe in the WORLD! There are none that have a countdown at the top, in the WORLD! That is the only reason I want Wonderland to stay open + it's one of the greatest and largest theme parks in Australia! Go Wonderland! Yes, Yes, Yes I think that there will be another theme park in Sydney, in less than 10 years tops. 110% in on this!

[supersimpsons]

I totally agree that if Wonderland was managed correctly, it would be the absolute best theme park in oz. Yes, I too heard about the Olympic Park option, however I think that houses and apartments are now going up unless they included a recreational development in the plan. Lets hope so. Also, the Six Flags idea would be perfect if it eventuated. Again, lets hope so. Well, thanks for the warm reception BTW! Greatly appreciated. Well, until the new park comes I gues I'll have to settle with Rollercoaster Tycoon. Oh, and Luna Park is a park and it's great that we have something, but obviously it's not very major so I won't go there religiously, even though its free lol. Cya soon.

[GoGoBoy]

I like your new avatar graphic Johno - very appropriate! That's a keeper I reckon

[Johno]

Thanks GoBoi! I made it with: Adobe ImageReady 3.0 Then I resized it.

[Nightshifter]

well if i had to build a new theme park in sydney, it would have been located at the olympic site as it is very large, in a large suburban area and easy to travel to. It would have very large rides, thrill rides record roller coasters and many of them. But if i had to build a park in sydney it would be very hard, becasue there are very few large vacant spots near the city to build a theme park with a very large amount of land. The only places left would probably be like penrith or something like that but yeah.

[Schwarz_freak]

I looked in the street map and there is as an oil dock near homebush which would be a near perfect place for a park it has locatoin , no stupid people to complain about the park and a fair bit of land it would be ok ecept for one thing its owned one of the big oil companys and it wouldnt be cheap.

[Gazza]

Why is land so hard to find and why is it so expensive in sydney anyway? I think Melbourne should get a park too, it has 3.5 million people but all we have is luna park (not that it is bad or anything, but i want an actual theme park) I thought of some locations too, such as next to the new cragieburn bypass in melbounes north (If anyone can rememember that park i drew up a couple of months back, thats where it was designed for), beside the princess highway near weribee (I think this site would work well because an open range zoo is viable out there so why not a theme park, and its near avalon airport, the future home of Jetstar) A friend of mine suggested building it on decking over the jolimont rail yards like fedaration square (this was a cool idea, but i think space and cost limitations would stop this from working. I also thought of building it near frankston (this area is touristy anyway).

[Richard]

It's hard to find because it's all taken up by urban sprawl. It's expensive because it's hard to find. It's true that you can build parks way out where land is cheaper, but then the majority of the 4 million you'd class as "local residents" are getting to be hours and hours away, which really does make them a difficult market to . Not many people will drive three hours each way to visit a theme park for a day (of course that's not saying no one will, but it's a bit hard to market to). If you're looking at cheap land in the middle of nowhere, it's not as if it'll make an attractive weekend holiday for those too far to come in a day. I'd suggest that anything more than 90 minutes from Sydney CBD (or any City for that matter) is too far for the bulk of Sydney residents, and you're not exactly going to get many tourists taking the trip out if its so far.

[supersimpsons]

Yes it's true that location is very important and I agree Richard that anything too far from Sydney will get a much reduced visitor numbers. But I think that there are a lot of things that influence a theme park's popularity. Such as rides, price, transport to and from, and other things. I think that Olympic Park would be great because 1) it has a train station and bus routes, 2) it needs a lot of visitors, not just at the easter show 3) it does have a lot of land 4) Imagine the visitor numbers in the easter holidays! Well, that's my two cents!

[ScReAMmachine!]

A theme park would complement the proposal for the refurbishment of Olympic Park in Sydney. The current plan includes a Town Centre, Major Regional Club, Entertainment Precint (including Cinemas, Ten Pin etc...) It would be great to see Olympic Park regain its focus as 'the place to be' in Sydney :cool:

[Gazza]

All the sites I suggested for the melbourne park would work because they are all pretty close to the CBD and all accessible pretty much on seamless freeway/tollway. I like the Idea for the olympic park park, I think it would work well.

[Schwarz_freak]

Another good place would be port Macquarie where they get a fair bit of tourist plus they got hotels, land and it could be the next big place if they do build one there.

[Bussy]

Another good place would be port Macquarie where they get a fair bit of tourist plus they got hotels, land and it could be the next big place if they do build one there.

I have to disagree with that for a couple of reasons. The first is that it is to far away from anything, it's a good 5 hour drive from Sydney and 2 hours from the nearest major (if you can call it that) airport (Newcastle). If they upgraded the airport there to be able to take commercial jets, I'm talking 737's and the like, then it could be viable but it would take a load of infrastructure change, and I don't think that the government, state or local would be willing to gamble or spend that much on something that has a good chance of failing. "The Bus is now leaving for Far West Senior Citizens Village, South Australia"

[Daniel]

Since when does it take us 3 hours to get to Newcastle? Sheesh, are you a snail? As for the Port Mac idea, I don't think it would work either to be honest. There's stuff all else to do there so it doesn't make an ideal holiday or tourist destination.

[zordmaker]

Hi, I'm a new member and I would like to start by saying it's great to see forum dedicated to coasters and theme parks - epecially those in Australia. I am disappointed in Wonderland's closure. Yes, the park had some problems, but it served Sydney well overall. I would like to be optimistic and talk about new theme parks in Sydney. Their location, rides, and such. Sure, a new park may be years away, but it's okay to hope. So your opinions? PS: Incase you're wondering about my nickname, it's email address and apart of my site address.

Firstly: 1.) ING Industrial Fund have bought Wonderland. They have not indicated how they will use it yet other than that they seek to expand the business park currently surrounding it. 2.) The land is zoned Special Uses - Entertainment. There has been no application for rezoning. 3.) The matter is likely to become political, just as Luna Park did. 4.) In the end there will be a compromise between ING and Blacktown Council to redevelop the site. BCC are unlikely to want or accept the parks' complete demplition or closure, and therefore are unlikely to rezone the land unless ING can guarantee the park will remain in some (albeit very different, probably much smaller) form. 5.) I predict that in 5 years Wonderland will remain, redeveloped and reopened as a "fun park" (instead of a theme park) with land size approx 1/4 that of the current size and almost certainly including the rides and assets that are difficult to relocate, i.e. the Beach, the Snowy River, and The Beast. 6.) ALL OF YOU - the only way you can make this happen is to write letters (snail mail, not just emails - remember most of these people dont even have a computer) to the councillors at Blacktown City Council. The NSW State Govt are unlikely to get involved (unlike Luna Park) as there is simply nothing in it for them - they dont own the land (unlike LP) and they do not stand to benefit from the zoning change if it takes place. If BCC councillors can be convinced that there is an overwealming support to retain the theme park zoning and that this will benefit their local area then this is what they will do, or at least compromise to do. Write letters, write them now, and Write them to BCC Councillors. http://www.blacktown.nsw.gov.au/ It is common for theme parks to close, then reopen years later reinvented with a new identity. Everybody knows this is what Wonderland has needed for a long time, and now is the chance to make that happen. Sunway were bastards and now they've gone, good riddance to them I say. (I can tell you another story regarding Sunway Vs Blacktown's local community radio station which used to use the Space Probe as it's transmitter site.. but thats another story..) With Sunway gone, the Assets remaining and in new hands, now is the time to reinvent Sudney's theme park. ZordMaker Paul Matthews

[GoGoBoy]

One major problem I can see with your idea is that I believe ING paid all that money just for the land and not for the rides and attractions. It is my understanding that Sunway still owns the rides and is trying to sell off each and every one of them (plus all of the remaining smaller assets). There has been no consideration on their part that some sort of fun park may remain. The other point is that unfortunately Sunway is not gone completely. They are retaining an interest in the new business park through their 'Australian' registered company - Hartford Lane. Therefore, they are still very much involved with the new developments out there... now and into the future. Sunway's only interest is to turn the place into industry which equals faster profits. They have had the local government wrapped around their little finger up until this point so I do not see what will change

[zordmaker]

One major problem I can see with your idea is that I believe ING paid all that money just for the land and not for the rides and attractions. It is my understanding that Sunway still owns the rides and is trying to sell off each and every one of them (plus all of the remaining smaller assets). There has been no consideration on their part that some sort of fun park may remain. The other point is that unfortunately Sunway is not gone completely. They are retaining an interest in the new business park through their 'Australian' registered company - Hartford Lane. Therefore, they are still very much involved with the new developments out there... now and into the future. Sunway's only interest is to turn the place into industry which equals faster profits. They have had the local government wrapped around their little finger up until this point so I do not see what will change

You may be right about the local govt but this just changed and there's already a storm over the issue amongst some new councillors. My understanding is also that a number of "uncommitted" councillors may have become more vocal now they know that Wonderland is under threat. Previous plans always included the park "as is", and BCC have every reason to be distressed if they are now losing one of the (few) tourist attractions that exist in the area. Once these councillors realise their constituents are watching after all they'll probably drop it like a radioactive fuel rod and would flatly oppose any developmnent that did not either include all or part of the park, or otherwise make allowance for relocating it to somewhere else in Blacktown. According to an article published in the Sydney Morning Herald, ING Industrial have purchased the park ouright which includes all the fixtures and fittings, and that ING are responsible for doing whatever they want to do with the site and remove / sell or retain the assets. I'm not sure about the connection with Hartford Lane. My understanding is that Sunway have already made their money and it's now ING's problem. The latter may even review the business (particularly in light of the response from the community visiting it for "the last time") and decide to attempt to find a suitable leasee for all or part of the park as a going concern. ING (unlike the inept and incompetent Sunway) are only interested in making the mo$t of the land - not the park. If in their opinion the land can make more money retained as a fun park (after restructuring and finding an operator), and they can keep the pollies happy and they have no immediate customer wanting the land for anything else.. then expect a Phoenix rebirth. But also expect non profitable acreage to vanish.. things like the Aust Wildlife Park, (ex)HBL, the surrounding bushland and the (enormous) carpark and entrance.. and become smaller factory units very quickly. Business parks need one important thing to survive - Business. And if there's nobody who wants to lease or buy the site then ING are not going to pay millions to redevelop it and have it stand empty. They are competing with a number of other recent industrial releases in the area, particularly the new Erskine Park employment zone and the ADI employment zone, both near St Marys. They may decide simply to develop some of it, retain the park (of sorts) if an interested operator can be found, and just sit and retain the holding in the longer term hoping for a large capital gain once the M7 motorway is operating. The latter scenario (IMO) is the most likely given ING's investment history. The demand for large industrial holdings in Sydney is not that great, nowhere near that of the residential sector. ZordMaker

[Bussy]

Business parks need one important thing to survive - Business. And if there's nobody who wants to lease or buy the site then ING are not going to pay millions to redevelop it and have it stand empty. They are competing with a number of other recent industrial releases in the area, particularly the new Erskine Park employment zone and the ADI employment zone, both near St Marys. They may decide simply to develop some of it, retain the park (of sorts) if an interested operator can be found, and just sit and retain the holding in the longer term hoping for a large capital gain once the M7 motorway is operating. The latter scenario (IMO) is the most likely given ING's investment history. The demand for large industrial holdings in Sydney is not that great, nowhere near that of the residential sector.

Are you serious? What a more perfect location for a business park then the Wonderland site. It is going to be at the intersection of two of Sydney's major Motorways (M4 and M7). The first phase of the Wonderland business park is nearing completion. With just one more building to be erected (the frame started going up the other day by the way). There is a major Fruit and Vegetable distribution center, which supplies Coles. The new building going up is going to be LG's warehouse. Unfortunately for Wonderland its location was its downfall, not because it's 'out in the sticks' as some of you believe but because it is located at the intersection to two major roads. To put it bluntly it is a waste of time to lobby the local council to stop the development. Firstly, M-O-N-E-Y, the council is going to be rolling in it, all the development applications, site inspections, et cetera, et cetera. Secondly there is going to be a downturn in tourists visiting the area, but the amount of money all the employment will bring to the area (I’m talking 3000 people instead of 500) will be enormous. As for the Wildlife Park not being profitable, you obviously haven't seen the number of tourists, particularly Asians who go there for a hour or two max and spend up big. "The Bus is now leaving for Central Government Battery, Northern Territory"