2 new permanent rides installed at Wonderland docklands

[colliric_855]

This took me by surprise actually.

Gazza, if you want to add my previous post on this here, go ahead.

Anyway:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=570169876364516&set=a.216349211746586.55607.201665666548274&type=1&theater

and

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=569465086434995&set=a.216349211746586.55607.201665666548274&type=1&theater

Yay, finally got a "big kids" ride..

Next time in the area I might consider a single ticket to the Drop ride just to see how it compares to Coney Island Drop. Looks like the same ride, with a different carriage, less theming and a different view?

Edited September 25, 2013 by colliric_855

[Jobe]

I would say this has the same amount of theming as Coney Island Drop which is to say nothing. Coney Island Drop has no theming- it is an off the shelf ride from Zamperla and it's Coney Island "theme" you claim as heritage theming is but one of potential choices ANY customer can make. But you keep telling yourself otherwise. Knock yourself out.

[colliric_855]

I would say this has the same amount of theming as Coney Island Drop which is to say nothing. Coney Island Drop has no theming- it is an off the shelf ride from Zamperla and it's Coney Island "theme" you claim as heritage theming is but one of potential choices ANY customer can make. But you keep telling yourself otherwise. Knock yourself out.

But apparently only two customers have ever made that choice...One is LPM, the other you can guess....

[Jobe]

Doesn't take away from the fact that it is a choice Zamperla provides and therefore freely available to anyone or any park. My point is it is not unique to LPM and therefore scotches your overall heritage theming theory.....again.

[colliric_855]

Doesn't take away from the fact that it is a choice Zamperla provides and therefore freely available to anyone or any park. My point is it is not unique to LPM and therefore scotches your overall heritage theming theory.....again.

Except of cause for the fact that LPM is a heritage theme park(and therefore "themed" as such, especially since the centenary year when they revived quite a few things that have now stayed beyond it, such as live circus acts, etc), but I concede it is not necessarily themed fully to the "Coney Island" theme, and that it was probably a once off.

[Gazza]

But apparently only two customers have ever made that choice...One is LPM, the other you can guess....

In addition to the ones in Melbourne and New York there seems to be one doing the European travelling circuit:

I reckon Jobe is right, it'd just be some generic default theme that Zamperla would offer, and it's a relativley new model, but as time goes on I can imagine them being a popular choice with buyers everywhere because it looks non threatening as a family ride, and a parachute is a logical theme to convey that...

Just the same as heaps of parks with beach/seaside themed kids areas put in Rockin' Tugs because they can just order one off the shelf and it fits right in.

Can you give up already?

Edited September 25, 2013 by Gazza

[colliric_855]

Can you give up already?

Already did, didn't I? That's what was meant by "I concede". But I was also pointing out the park is playing on it's own heritage as a theme in the past two years or so. They brought it in for the centenary and have kept it up since then. They've brought in "heritage" shows and costumes/uniforms of late, and their website plays heavy on their own heritage.

[Jobe]

Already did, didn't I? That's what was meant by "I concede". But I was also pointing out the park is playing on it's own heritage as a theme in the past two years or so. They brought it in for the centenary and have kept it up since then. They've brought in "heritage" shows and costumes/uniforms of late, and their website plays heavy on their own heritage.

Your argument that Luna Park plays heavily on its heritage is true. Especially in this centenary year. However, you were arguing that the Coney Island Drop Tower was themed to fit in with this overall "heritage theme" This is simply not accurate. LPM does not have nor will it ever be a "heritage theme park" Your words. Firstly it is a fun park which is vastly different from a theme park. Sure it does have heritage and historical sections of the park. The Scenic Railway, The Ghost Train, The Carousel and the face and towers all have significant heritage and historical value. LPM suitably markets these attractions as such. That is their appeal.However, the other rides in the park ( Twin dragon, The Spider, Pharoah's Revenge etc, etc) have NOTHING to do with any perceived heritage theme. Your attempt to say that the Coney Island Drop tower is themed this way because of an overall heritage theme is just blatantly wrong. Once again you argue to the death and hate to be wrong when called on it. You seem to be learning, but oh so slowly...............................

[colliric_855]

Your argument that Luna Park plays heavily on its heritage is true. Especially in this centenary year. However, you were arguing that the Coney Island Drop Tower was themed to fit in with this overall "heritage theme" This is simply not accurate. LPM does not have nor will it ever be a "heritage theme park" Your words. Firstly it is a fun park which is vastly different from a theme park. Sure it does have heritage and historical sections of the park. The Scenic Railway, The Ghost Train, The Carousel and the face and towers all have significant heritage and historical value. LPM suitably markets these attractions as such. That is their appeal.However, the other rides in the park ( Twin dragon, The Spider, Pharoah's Revenge etc, etc) have NOTHING to do with any perceived heritage theme. Your attempt to say that the Coney Island Drop tower is themed this way because of an overall heritage theme is just blatantly wrong. Once again you argue to the death and hate to be wrong when called on it. You seem to be learning, but oh so slowly...............................

It is actually technically a themepark and not a funpark(Fun parks are often temporary, and specifically do NOT have any perceivable theme at all, including "organic theming" such as the Heritage theme that LP seems to be playing), because it is in fact a themed park... "Amusement Park" and "Theme Park" is traditionally a term that is interchangeable, despite what some toffs(Not you or Gazza though) think on this site. "have NOTHING to do with any perceived heritage theme", Matters not that specific rides do not follow the overall theme of the park, as it's the overall layout and atmosphere that count(and rides often add to that, but are not necessarily themed to the overall theme of the park). You wouldn't say that Disneyland isn't a themepark themed to Walt Disney, just because it includes rides not themed to traditional Disney properties(like Star Tours for example, although Disney own it now I guess).....

Secondly...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/central/kids-are-ready-for-holiday-fun-at-luna-park-and-gasworks/story-fngnvlpt-1226725412851

"...the Theme Park"

....public perception matters. Many more examples of the general public calling it like it is if you wish me to...

Under your definition, Clive Palmer's Dino monsters(or whatever it's going to be called) would probably be considered a theme(d) park(certainly a Dinosaur Park.... as in a park with the theme of Dinosaurs..... as in a Dinosaur Themed Park), but Luna Park wouldn't... That doesn't sit quite right with me at all.

As I said, I accept it is most likely they didn't pick Coney Island for "a continuing theme" of specifically "Coney Island"(possibly just because they liked it and thought it fit at the park, which it obviously does), but there is certainly a long-term heritage theme being worked on here, even if it's of their own heritage as a theme park. I accept the ride itself may not have been purchased for that reason though. I agree with you on that for now, lets see what the next permanent ride looks like!

Edited September 25, 2013 by colliric_855

[Jobe]

It is actually technically a themepark and not a funpark(Fun parks are often temporary, and specifically do NOT have any theming at all, including "organic theming" such as the Heritage theme that LP seems to be playing), because it is in fact a themed park... "Amusement Park" and "Theme Park" is traditionally a term that is interchangeable, despite what some toffs(Not you or Gazza though) think on this site. "have NOTHING to do with any perceived heritage theme", Matters not that specific rides do not follow the overall theme of the park, as it's the overall layout and atmosphere that count(and rides often add to that, but are not necessarily themed to the overall theme of the park). You wouldn't say that Disneyland isn't a themepark themed to Walt Disney, just because it includes rides not themed to traditional Disney properties(like Star Tours for example, although Disney own it now I guess)..... Secondly... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/central/kids-are-ready-for-holiday-fun-at-luna-park-and-gasworks/story-fngnvlpt-1226725412851 "...the Theme Park" ....public perception matters. .

This isn't the first nor the last time that a journalist has got it wrong. LPM can be most accurately described as a fun park and definitely an amusement park but a "theme park"? Not in the classic sense of Disneyland or even our own Dreamworld/Movieworld does LPM or LPS even come remotely close. LPM has no "overall" theme. It is a collection of rides and amusements brought together in one place-in essence what makes it an amusement park. However the rides are NOT themed, there are no themed lands, there is just the park. Dismissing the other rides in the park by not being themed as not affecting the "theme" of the park is just idiotic. I am sure that other learned board members such as Gazza ,AlexB or Joz would be able to expound further on the virtues of an amusement park versus a theme park- in my mind they are 2 different entities, albeit with some commonalities. I cannot believe you are equating LPM as being the same as Disneyland-they are both amusement parks but Disneyland offers themed experiences. What themed experience does LPM offer????? It is a 100 year old seaside park that houses a collection of rides- some old and some new. It has its own unique atmosphere but that is brought about from its location, its originality and its historical features. These do not make an overall "theme" as the newer rides would contradict that. For a complete example of a "heritage" amusement park- please look at the proposal for Dreamland Margate. Every aspect of this park, every ride is aimed at being for historical and heritage value- and this type of heritage proposal and park is a world first. It is a conscious decision to be engineered this way. LPM is vastly different from what this proposal promises Edited September 25, 2013 by Jobe

[colliric_855]

Although I still don't agree, considering it is in fact common public perception that the park is a Theme Park(no need for other examples surely? there's heaps, also for the Sydney park too), I have to admit that was a very well written post.

Oh and I was using that example to prove a point is all. Not all the rides in a theme park have to fit the overall theme of the park. After all a theme park doesn't even need to have rides under the traditional definition of a "themed park" or "a park with a theme to it".

A theme park that doesn't even have any rides:

http://fairylandvillage.com.au/

and "Palmersaurus"(the apparent name according to the website's section title) is also technically one.

Edited September 25, 2013 by colliric_855

[Gazza]

This isn't the first nor the last time that a journalist has got it wrong.

Funnel web at Jamberoo, "worlds longest water slide," New coaster at Adventure world is "100m high" are a couple I can think of.

It is actually technically a themepark and not a funpark

Nah Luna Park is an amusement park, not a theme park. Remember this is a theme park forum, so you'd expect people on here would use more specific terminology and know the difference.

Doesn't matter what the general public perception is, because it's not like they have particularly detailed knowledge, or could describe the difference between other seemingly similar things, like a suspended coaster and an inverted coaster.

Fun parks are often temporary,

So aren't heaps of LPM and LPSs rides just carnie rides set up on blocks that can be added and removed from the park at will?

And it's not like a theme parks go and hire out carine rides for the school holidays and plonk them down, but the Luna Parks certainly do.

A theme park that doesn't even have any rides:

Ah, but then you are moving into the realm of a "themed attraction", which is something different again.

[colliric_855]

I can agree with this somewhat. But then again let me point out, Amusement Park is blanket terminology, as most parks with anysort of rides in them fall into it's general english definition. Inc Disney. They are parks designed with the purpose of amusing or entertaining people. Which you would hope is the aim of all Theme Parks. So are you saying that Theme Parks are a specific "sub-genre"(as film enthusiasts would call it) of Amusement Parks? This is the way that Wikipedia(I know, it's not reliable) appears to deal with the subject, and I would follow that understanding. Hence it doesn't really matter if LP is an Amusement Park, because that doesn't disqualify it from being a theme park, in fact it would need to be one in order to qualify to be a theme park in the first place.

Edited September 26, 2013 by colliric_855

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

You're right Jobe - I will.

This is just personal opinion, but i'd disagree that a Theme Park is a sub-genre of an amusement park.

Disneyland is commonly hailed as being the first 'theme park' - however most of the inspiration for this park came from Knott's and Tivoli Gardens (mostly Tivoli).

Take a look at Tivoli and Disney and you'll quickly see an extreme difference between them and LPM. I have never viewed LPM or LPS as a 'theme park' - only an 'amusement park'.

To say a theme park is a sub-class of an amusement park is like saying the space shuttle is a sub-class of an aeroplane.

A theme park usually has more than one themed land, with pains and efforts taken to make EVERYTHING fit in to that theme. Right down to the garbage bins in Disneyland, you can usually tell what land you're in. The shops, food outlets, rides, sometimes even down to the pavement is changed to fit in to that theme. Although it was changed over time, Wonderland started with Cobbles in Old Botany Bay International village. Comical paving took over in Hanna Barbera, whereas goldrush had plain black asphalt (dirt tracks are too hard to maintain).

Dreamworld is often criticised for installing rides into areas where they don't belong. Ocean Parade was born out of the installation of rides such as Wipeout and Cyclone, but gradually they've struggled to maintain the theme when they installed rides like the Claw (a tenuous link at best) before finally destroying it with V8Redline. (There is a very in depth conversation on these boards that occurred when Redline was being launched about the lack of link to the existing theme). Dreamworld now regularly refers to this section of the park as 'Adrenalin Alley' - therefore technically still maintaining a 'theme' of sorts.

So - numerous other people have already said it - but let me try to be as blunt as possible so that you finally understand.

NEITHER LUNA PARK SYDNEY, NOR LUNA PARK MELBOURNE ARE THEME PARKS. THEY ARE JUST AMUSEMENT PARKS WITH A LONG-LIVED HISTORY.

If it weren't for heritage listings, some of the structures and rides still in operation today, wouldn't be... simple as that.

[Gazza]

This is just personal opinion, but i'd disagree that a Theme Park is a sub-genre of an amusement park.

On the contrary, I'd say "all theme parks are amusement parks, but not all amusement parks are theme parks".

Hence it doesn't really matter if LP is an Amusement Park, because that doesn't disqualify it from being a theme park

But other factors disqualify LPM/LPS..the rides basically have no proper theming or storyline, and there's no coherence running through the park....What is the enterprise themed to? How does Pharoas curse relate to Street Legal Dodgems? What was metropolis all about?

[bluman]

As previous stated, Luna park Melbourne is known as an amusement park. Though it must be said that management in 2001 did refer to the park as "Australia's oldest theme park" in their promotion. Current CEO, Mary Stuart also makes a reference to 'Australia's oldest pleasure park'.

The Coney Island Drop was installed in 2010. It's a bit of a long bow to say, as Colleric did, that it was brought in for the Centenary!

[colliric_855]

Lol, I agree now with both of the last two posts! I can understand Gazza's opinion. The English language dictates that "Amusement Park" must be an overarching term encompassing all parks that are specifically devoted to entertainment/amusement, including Theme(d) Parks. Get a dictionary and look up the word "Amusement", see what it means.

[Jobe]

And what was it about mine or AlexB's post that you did not understand?? Our post's all came to the same conclusion. For someone who purports to be incredibly savvy and knowledgable about all things to do with the amusement park industry, not being able to grasp the simple concept of what constitutes a theme park versus an amusement park,especially when it is eloquently pointed out to you ,really highlights how insipid you can be. At times, your posts can be a blight on this board. I am fairly certain that in some of instances, the stupidity of your posts are deliberate,IMHO.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Jobe

[colliric_855]

I will be in the City tomorrow, so if I find time, I'll pop down and have a single ride on the Drop Zone and get a picture or two(hopefully at the top of it).

... Gotta figure out some way of getting this thread back on topic now.

May as well check out Southern/Melbourne Star to see how it's coming along. I'll head to the RMS on Tuesday instead.

Edited September 26, 2013 by colliric_855

[pin142]

Melbourne Star doesn't look too far off being done. Didn't know about Wonderland Docklands ride line up until after visiting on Monday. Would head back that way but don't have time to do so before departing on Sunday. Would have also liked to have made the trip the St. Kilda to do Luna Park but unable to due to time constraints.