Holiday Club Parasites

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

As an addition - the $20 deposit they take from you is because they put food on for these 90 minute information sessions. The $20 is always returned to you in cash or in kind (and this is always explained to you) once you attend the meeting. It saves them putting on catering for 400 people if only 10 show up. Its just to show you're serious about actually coming... nothing more. If you don't want to part with your $20 on the spot, then you're probably not their target market anyway, so it ensures those with mutual interests are brought together...

Thanks Brad for the rest - you beat me to it.

Can't say i've ever heard of 'luke from holiday club' - is he the owner? Sounds like he's just one of many of those guys out there that spruik this product. I'm not saying he didn't lie - They all get the same training, but some of them may overstep their boundaries and lie - it happens in many industries. The best you can do is provide feedback through whatever channels are open to you if you feel you were deceived or misled and have it investigated - such as through a consumer affairs channel. If they look into it and don't uphold your complaint, then they didn't lie or deceive, and you simply ignored or failed to exercise your right as a consumer correctly.

If you didn't raise it with your consumer affairs body, chances are you obviously didn't feel strongly enough about the issue and your bitterness now is simply a case of sour grapes.

[newaddict]

I have provided feedback to Wet'n'Wild, Harvey Norman, and Scamwatch. Harvey Norman have passed it onto the "Advertising and Compliance" dept but that's the only response so far. To be honest I'm not expecting much, except perhaps from Harvey Norman who won't like their name being dragged through the mud, as Wet'n'Wild must make a chunk off this fraud, and Scamwatch state clearly that they get too many complaints to have time to respond personally to each one.

Regardless, I also feel it's important to provide info for everyday people who are going to find this thread (and others like it). There is luck and "free" things in our world, usually at the cost of giving away an email address so they can spam you for eternity, and I have won legitimate prizes before so while in hindsight I can see where I was stupid, the basic idea of entering a competition and winning something isn't actually that bizarre. But this isn't a straight-forward competition like that and that's where I should have stepped away, and I would have if I'd known beforehand that these people existed or spent longer thinking about it. Once we'd agreed to listen I mostly wanted my time spent on this Holiday Club thing to be over so we could actually enjoy the day but Luke kept rabbiting on - again another tactic to wear you down (same reason their sales sessions are 3-4 hours in length; you'll do anything to get out).

Just because some sales bloke "overstepped" doesn't mean he should get away with it. I couldn't care less if the $20 went on food or whatever (actually, better food than their own pockets!). Luke did say it was to ensure people turned up and I get the thinking behind that (it's tried and tested psychology - invest even a little and you're far more likely to do what you've promised. In hindsight I can see that everything he did fit one psychological trick or another, eg writing and circling various things while talking to distract us from actually reading any of the print). He never mentioned timeshare, never disclosed what was being sold, never mentioned that all sessions take much longer than 90 mins (someone responded on the trip advisor forum that they went this week to the same session, they left after 3 hours 20 minutes and it was still going), and frankly outright lied about Harvey Norman so why on earth would I believe anything else he says or does including the legitimacy of his scratchies? Do some searching and NO-ONE has won anything but the holiday vouchers.

That man is a liar and thus a scammer, and he represents The Holiday Club so frankly, I have no other evidence to believe otherwise. Seriously, even the junk mail you get in your letterbox has an ABN for legit companies.

So I'm from NSW and am used to seeing permit numbers, got that wrong. But I work in sales. My dad works in sales. But there's sales and then there's being misleading - legal but not my kind of sales. Then there's being outright fraudulent, say, ooh, I don't know, claiming some large respected national company is sponsoring your prizes, hypothetically that could be a company like Harvey Norman, and using that fact to give your sale legitimacy. That's outright wrong.

I repeat, he took me off guard as I trusted that the theme park would only have its own sales people or clearly marked outsiders who are legit (eg the Dominoes hut). More fool me to trust Wet'n'Wild, I get that. But I'm not alone in that trust and I want other people to be warned.

Edited November 22, 2013 by newaddict

[Brad2912]

If they are giving away Harvey Norman gift vouchers, which are being purchased regularly and over a consistent period of time, you probably would find they have some form of commercial agreement. I work in sales, and there are far dodgier companies and methods out there than this. Everyone knows what the holiday club is about. If u don't you work it out real quick and say no. It's really simple. U really have a bee in your bonnet over this, and while that's your prerogative, I'd certainly recommend u don't take something as little and unimportant in the grand scheme of things in life so personally and to heart.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1. I can see where I was stupid

2. In hindsight I can see that everything he did fit one psychological trick or another, eg writing and circling various things while talking to distract us from actually reading any of the print)

3. frankly outright lied about Harvey Norman so why on earth would I believe anything else he says or does including the legitimacy of his scratchies?

4. Do some searching and NO-ONE has won anything but the holiday vouchers.

5. That man is a liar and thus a scammer,

6. even the junk mail you get in your letterbox has an ABN for legit companies.

7. But I work in sales. My dad works in sales. But there's sales and then there's being misleading - legal but not my kind of sales.

8. Then there's being outright fraudulent, say, ooh, I don't know, claiming some large respected national company is sponsoring your prizes, hypothetically that could be a company like Harvey Norman, and using that fact to give your sale legitimacy. That's outright wrong.

9. I repeat, he took me off guard as I trusted that the theme park would only have its own sales people or clearly marked outsiders who are legit (eg the Dominoes hut). More fool me to trust Wet'n'Wild, I get that. But I'm not alone in that trust and I want other people to be warned.

1. Thats the most intelligent thing i've read from you so far.
2. But that's your problem, isn't it? The print was there, you had every right to say "let me read this before i sign it" but you didn't - for whatever reason, that is your mistake - and doesn't make him a scammer - just makes him good at his job.
3. Have harvey norman actually come back to you and said 'we are not in any way affiliated with this company' ? Frankly I don't see any proof that you've obtained that shows he lied... Do you think Harvey Norman staff don't visit the parks and see this? Don't you think they'd shut it down if there wasn't an agreement?
4. Just because you can't find anyone shouting from the rooftops that they won a harvey norman voucher, does that mean none have? I've never met anyone who won the major prize in a boystown lottery, but I know they do exist. It's just like the 'lucky number' stall at the sideshow of your agricultural show - they have a big number board with all the winning numbers, but they only have to have ONE of those numbers mixed into all the other tickets to be legitimate. Legitimate Scratchies from NSW Lotteries and Golden Casket both say on the back 'some or all cash prizes may have been won before this ticket was purchased' or something like that.
5. Liar? Scammer? I say show us PROOF that this is recognised as a scam... My assurances that it ISN'T is that they continue TO THIS DAY to remain inside our parks.
6. A registered Australian business is only required to quote it's ABN during a business transaction... such as on an invoice. I think you'll find there is an ABN for the organisation - i'm not saying which one it is (because I don't know) but did you try "http://abr.business.gov.au/SearchByName.aspx?SearchText=holiday+club". Also - placing some reliance in an organisation having an ABN proving that they're legitimate is the most retarded thing i've ever heard - A person can go online, answer some questions and get an ABN from a computer in 5 minutes without ever having to prove that what they're doing is legal. I have an ABN and have had it since the year 2000 and i've never even RUN a business.
7. You work in sales, your dad worked in sales, but still you fell for the 'writing things down and circling things to distract you from reading the fine print' ? Mustn't be very good salespeople. Especially if (as per 9) you got taken 'off guard'.
8. I again ask whether you have any confirmation or proof that there is not some sort of commercial relationship or agreement with Harvey Norman. You haven't yet provided any evidence that they are not in some form of working relationship or sponsor.
9. So you got caught off guard, and trusted them. I again reiterate your lacking as a salesperson. I've always believed these guys were clearly marked as not being 'part of WVTP'... and again you refer to these guys as not being legitimate - but make this statement without any proof or evidence, only your own sour grapes that you got convinced by a very good sales guy to part with your cash. In the absence of a gun to your head - these guys are legit, and you are an idiot.

[newaddict]

Wow, you two are bizarre. What's your beef with me wanting to warn people about Holiday Club? Clearly not "everyone" knows about them. Now a few more people who've read this thread do. That's all I wanted to achieve. Am I somehow hurting you or ruining your lives by pointing this out in a public forum? Do you guys work for this scam or another like it and hate seeing the truth out in the open? It's just surreal that you'd attack me so visciously, even resorting to personal insults, just because I want to warn others not to fall for the same tricks I did.

There may be worse tricks out there but I don't see how that excuses this lot. I had a moment of stupidity, yes, I'm human. I'm not taking what happened to heart though. I just want to open people's eyes. Your eyes are already open to this stuff, I'm geniunely happy about that; two less people for Holiday Club to rip off. But that also means that this thread isn't for you. It's for people who are naive, like I was, and I know I'm not alone in that. Why you both are so defensive and find it so insulting that I'd want to do this is truly weird.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

For starters, your continued implication that organisations such as Holiday Club are 'scammers' or 'liars' without offering up any evidence or proof that this is true.

I can easily go onto a website associated or affiliated with your employer business social group and start saying things that you have said, calling key members of the organisation liars or thieves or scammers and not offering up a shred of proof.

And if these claims or statements were found to be untrue, that organisation would be well within their rights to lay charges against me for slander. I'm only holding you to the same civil standard of proof as your 'crusade' to make sure people are 'aware' should contain facts, rather than opinions.

One mans scam is another man's opportunity.

And for the final time, I re-state to you - i am not affiliated with them in any way. I work for a government organisation that cannot take action without facts to back them up.

[newaddict]

They state the presentation is 90 mins, when in actual fact it's 3-4 hours. How is that not a lie?

I've offered up my experience, people can judge for themselves. In my opinion, based on my very real experience, the Holiday Club lies and misleads in order to scam people into attending their presentations, where they use high pressure sales techniques to force people into handing over a hell of a lot of money for a product they don't really want. That's pretty low behaviour in my book. The only way to combat this is to continue to spread the word so that people are more aware and can run at first sight of a scratchie.

Companies with products that people DO actually want don't need to resort to such duplicitious behaviour. The Holiday Club's underhand tactics speak volumes. They're welcome to try and bring charges against me, I doubt they'd get far. I'm hardly the only person to be calling The Holiday Club out on their dodgy behaviour. Weirdly, you and your best chum (though he seems to have deserted you) are about the only people who defend them.

Edited November 27, 2013 by newaddict

[Brad2912]

Haven't disappeared just can't be bothered arguing with you when you won't look at if from a position of sense and logic. Woolies say 90% of their fruit n veg is Australia - anyone who works there will tell u that's not true. Same for KFCs claim to fresh chicken. Go to JB HiFi or Harvey Norman and ask for a discount on a $3000 plasma tv and you get nothing or a $100 off, a hot chick walks in and the salesman wants her number so she gets it for $2500. You buy a car on the 25th of the month for $20,000, and 5 days later at the end of the Month your neighbour gets the same car from the same dealership for $16,000 because they need to hit their monthly sales target by end of month. It's called sales. Enough people have been happy with the service and offering of the holiday club for it to be a viable and successful business for many many years. U may have had a bad experience, I'm not denying that, but that doesn't mean they are scammers, frauds and parasites. My Big Mac from Maccas was missing the pickle yesterday, the entire organisation is a scam! It even says pickle on the jingle!! Lies!! Get over it...

[iwerks]

Am I the only one getting these ads on this thread?

[Reanimated35]

I have ad block on so I couldn't tell you, but that's not surprising since they're called 'targeted ads' for a reason.

[iwerks]

Yeah 'targeted comedy ads' for extra irony.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

They state the presentation is 90 mins, when in actual fact it's 3-4 hours. How is that not a lie?

I've offered up my experience, people can judge for themselves. In my opinion, based on my very real experience, the Holiday Club lies and misleads in order to scam people into attending their presentations, where they use high pressure sales techniques to force people into handing over a hell of a lot of money for a product they don't really want. That's pretty low behaviour in my book. The only way to combat this is to continue to spread the word so that people are more aware and can run at first sight of a scratchie.

Companies with products that people DO actually want don't need to resort to such duplicitious behaviour. The Holiday Club's underhand tactics speak volumes. They're welcome to try and bring charges against me, I doubt they'd get far. I'm hardly the only person to be calling The Holiday Club out on their dodgy behaviour. Weirdly, you and your best chum (though he seems to have deserted you) are about the only people who defend them.

You have admitted you did not attend the presentation, so your statement that it runs for 3-4 hours is second hand from someone else who did. For all you know, they didn't have a watch, and while it 'felt' like 3-4 hours, it was only 90 minutes. Or maybe at 90 minutes they told everyone that that was the end of the spiel, but if they wanted more info, to stick around, and that took another 90 minutes? WHo knows? Not you because you weren't there.

You haven't offered up your experience, you've offered up your opinion. there is a big difference.

And yet - you still show no evidence of anyone being FORCED to pay money for a product they don't want. You're in sales - have you ever taken someone's credit card out of their wallet and charged a whole bunch of stock to the card without the customer agreeing? No - because they would stop you.

You seem to have it in your head that these guys exercise some sort of 'mind control' over these poor unsuspecting park guests, and somehow get them to do things they do not want to do.

Several people around here know a guy named Tony Laffan (congrats on the bubba by the way). He's a hypnotist, who does both comedy hypnotism to promote his skills(gets you to walk around like a duck etc) as well as therapy hypnotism for things like quitting smoking. The first thing he will tell you is that he can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do. Even under hypnosis, your subconscious has to be willing to do the things he is suggesting.

All contracts are required to have a cooling off clause - a period of time where either party can terminate the agreement without prejudice. I'd like you to point me to someone who:

1. Is a member of holiday club,
2. didn't want to be from the start,
3. never actually wanted to be,
4. doesn't want to continue; but,
5. continues to pay them money.

You don't like their sales tactics, and as a salesperson yourself you feel embarassed that a very good sales person convinced you to part with $20 of your own money, but the fact is, you did - and you're angry at yourself that you fell for the sales pitch... but thats all it is - it's a sales pitch. it's not a scam, it's not a lie. It's a legitimately registered business running a legitimate promotion.

Theres a reason the nigerian scammers are in nigeria. Theres a reason the 'Windows support team' scammers aren't in Australia. Because anyone running anything from a base IN AUSTRALIA that does not conform with Australian Consumer Law will very quickly be shut down or brought up on charges - especially an organisation as prominent and bold as one that would stand waving fliers in your faces in a theme park, and holding weekly "information sessions" in hotel conference rooms... gee, they'd be hard to track down if they were doing something illegal wouldn't they???

You seem confused that we don't believe you, and can't understand why we're "against" your opinion. You're using inflammatory language to cast dispersions against this apparently legitimate company.

You've done so with no proof.

You've been asked for proof, and given none - just more stories and explanation.

....now we aren't a court of law, but all you've given me was a story with no backing.

It's like me saying:

i got one of those scratch cards and it was for a new lamborghini and he said i'd won the car and all i had to do was give him $20 to make sure i'd show up and I showed up and he gave me the keys to a $300,000 lamborghini and i drove it home and now i race my mate down the road because he got one too and he won a ferrari!

You see? Theres no proof in me telling you that story. What would prove it was a photo of me accepting the keys from an employee of holiday club - this would be actual evidence of the transaction.

I have worked in the Banquets Events division of a large hotel. I've seen how much room charges are to hire. I can tell you the hotel function rooms on the gold coast aren't exactly cheap, but more importantly - if you want to know how long they PLAN for these information things to run - look at the events board at the front of the hotel - where it says something like "ballroom 1 - 9am to 10:30am - Holiday Club information session". If they planned for it to run for four hours, then the info board would be displayed by the hotel as "9am to 1pm"... unless you're going to claim that the hotel chains involved in hosting these info sessions are 'in on it' in which case the conspiracy just gets far too big, and it's time for you to put your tin foil hat on because the government organisation knows where you are and what you're thinking and they're coming for you!!! *spooky noises*

Conspiracy theorists unite!

Dyslexics untie!

[newaddict]

I have Ad-Block also.

AlexB: I haven't read most of your rant, I'm extremely amused by how much time you must be putting into defending the dodgy tactics of The Holiday Club. Doth protest too much perhaps? They're borderline legal and the fact that they have to mislead and misinform tells me that their product is shite and their scratchie "competition" is completely fraudulent and NOT like normal scratchie competitions.

Oh, I just read your last paragraph. Amusing that you're resorting to the same tactic that you're attacking me for - namely, that is assuming that your experience is proof that The Holiday Club would do something in a certain way. You have no idea what the hotel hosting the sessions puts on the information board. Neither do I. I do know that plenty of people have reported the session running 3-4 hours, and I'm more prone to believe them than your weird claim that a) lots of people are incapable of telling the time, or one hotel you supposedly worked in put times on their information boards. Though your dogged defence of the Holiday Club IS making me think that my joke that you worked for them might actually have some substance to it!

Brad2912: I'm not the only one who's had a crap experience with The Holiday Club. There's plenty of others out there who've made the same mistake (or worse, actually handed over money after being pressured for hours). There's a handful for whom it works for. The fact is that the The Holiday Club's scratchie "competition" is not what Luke (in my experience) or their other employees (3rd hand experience) present it to be.

[raymond265]

if anyone is honest with themselves they would admit the way the holiday club get people in is borderline dodgy. however it is obviously legal in that they are still around doing what they are doing. my problem is that they are in theme Parks and in particular movie world. it just detracts from the theming and the feeling of being in a different world that movieworld has. Dreamworld has no distinct theme or feel about it so it makes sense to be there.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

AlexB: I haven't read most of your rant

That's fine. You've made it clear that your mind won't be influenced by anyone using logic and reason. Apparently that only works for 'dodgy sales guys' taking advantage of 'dumb tourists'.

I just want to ensure theres a voice of reason out there. Your aim was to 'get the message out to everyone'. My aim was to ensure that message was balanced by logic and reason that any reasonable person would understand, and then take on both viewpoints to be assured that while some people obviously dislike how they do business, that there is a logical and legitimate explanation for a lot of the issues you raise, and that they aren't really deserving to be called parasites, liars, thieves or worse.

So now that we've both said our piece - and apparently both achieved our aims - i'll do you a deal - agree to disagree? i'll stop if you do?

Otherwise if you persist in pushing and belaboring a point you feel you've already made (and repeated several times without regard for the opposing argument) i'll have to likewise show the flaws in your arguments further.

[bladex]

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