2014 In Dreamworld - Tail Spin construction, Wipeout refurbishment, Triple Vortex construction

[iwerks]

Yup, Adventure World was doing something similar but with a wider demographic. They were supposed to shoot last frday. Unfortunately, it has been delayed.

[Slick]

Dreamworld are saving money by using the public for their ad and not paying them like they would if they hired extras.

....OR maybe the production company paid for the hero characters in the TVC and then they chose to tap into their vast social resources to find people who are happy to stand around in the back of a few shots for a few hours so they can get free entry? (Which is actually what Village do too, might I add.)

[Reanimated35]

Why would any themepark pay extras for their ads? I thought they always all always used random people that they just let spend the day in the park after filming?

[BigKev]

Don't like it at all.

If you want people to do a job for you then pay them the appropriate wage.

[Reanimated35]

Ok, so lets say 4 hours of shooting at $23/hr for an extra. That's $90 ea. "Ok now we need you to go on this ride and act like you're having fun and smile for the cameras"

Or you get a bunch of teens who enjoy the park, would get a bit of a thrill about seeing themselves on TV and give themselves bragging rights among their friends, and give them a day pass to the park valued at basically the same amount all the while they're actually enjoying their exclusive use of the ride (assuming) and having fun.

It's a win-win. Plus it's volunteer work - they're not forcing anyone to do it.

[themagician]

^Exactly. And it isn't the first time parks have done this. I think its good when they do this. Do something for the park for a few hours and then get a free day at the park.

[BigKev]

I don't agree.

All labour should be paid, especially when it is being done for massive companies.

The fringe benefits or willingness of the worker are irrelevant really.

I'm sure plenty of people would work as 'interns' at the parks on ride operations in exchange for tickets, food and drinks.

It doesn't make it right. A fair days pay for a fair days work is one of the most important principles this country has. Anything that contradicts that should be illegal.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I coordinate volunteers for the V8 Supercars events. They receive lunch and polo shirts which costs a fortune. If we were to pay them - V8 Supercars would be out of business.

By your definition, we also would have no State Emergency Service, Volunteer Marine Rescue, Rural Fire Service... or we would - and your rates and taxes would at least triple.

Volunteer work where nobody is being exploited is perfectly acceptable. It's also a great way for people wanting to enter a chosen field to get some experience (where nobody will hire them without it) and for many people to 'give something back' to the community.

Granted this isn't the case with extras for a commercial - but if the participants are willing... (and who wouldn't enjoy some ERT and free entry for the day)... then what's the harm?

Or is it your argument that there are other people out there who ARE paid extras, who are missing out on a days pay because DW is using members of the public?

[Brad2912]

So volunteering should be illegal? Because that is all this is. They haven't called a local school & the school has agreed to send a class in school hours without individual being part of the decision of taking part.

If you don't want to go, you don't. The only negative you could take out of it, and this is clutching at straws, would be the encouragement of kids to miss a day of school. I'm 100% against parents just letting their kids have days off for no reason or taking them on holidays during school terms, but i have encouraged my niece and nephew to register, as really it's a once (or few times) in a lifetime experience.

If DW asking for volunteers is high on your annoyance list Big Kev I think you are being blind to the billions more unjust practices going on in big business globally

[BigKev]

Comparisons to volunteers is ridiculous.

This is a commercial venture, creating professionally made advertising as part of a marketing strategy to maximise profit for a company.

The aim here is to cut costs by getting people to work for no pay. Contra isn't pay.

If it was an ad for the RSPCA then fine but for a commercially venture it is tacky.

Not as unethical as much of what goes on in the corporate world, but still tacky.

[Reanimated35]

You're just grumpy because you're too old to do it aren't you.

[themagician]

But isn't being let into the park for the day like being paid? It costs the park to let them in, usually they would have to pay up to $85. So they aren't working for nothing. Some people don't have the spare money to go to theme parks. Yes the money would be nice, but most families want to see there kids be happy, and I'm pretty sure a day at the park would make there day.

[bladex]

teens will do anything to get on tv so they can txt 100 times a day to their friends and post on their facebook saying zomg look that's me yehhhhhh! so they will want to do it for free

Edited October 21, 2014 by bladex

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Don't backtrack on your comments now - comparisons to volunteers is NOT ridiculous. The point is identical.

Your previous statement was that all labour should be paid, and that the fringe benefits or willingness of the worker are irrelevant.

Motorsport - there are professional track and event staff that can be hired to run motorsport events.

State Emergency Service - there are roof repair companies, tree loppers and arborers that can be hired to fix houses damaged by storms

There are paid firefighters that could do the job of rural firies...

And our Volunteer Marine Rescue has a paid counterpart in the united states...

But to run organisations such as these with fully paid services - the money has to come from somewhere.

Even if you put aside the emergency services listed above - take the V8s as an example. They are a corporate enterprise. They are in it for the profit of the events (as is any business). Volunteers receive 2 polo shirts, a lunch-cooler bag, lunch water and snacks each day, a program, poster, patch, ID card, lanyard, hat, free camping at events that offer it, and a free weekend pass for a friend or family member (valued at over $70 on it's own). As volunteers we are on track by around 6:30 - and usually don't stop until around 5pm... or around 10.5 hours. Even at $10 an hour, that's $315 for the three day weekend (Australian minimum wage is $16.87 - source: Google which would make it $531.41). And that's not even taking into account weekend penalty rates.

Say the uniform - shirts, hat, lunch bag, ID card and lanyard (and forget the little 'fan extras') would still be around another $100.

Add in water, sunscreen and other "OH&S" requirements - and you can call it $650 per person to do a 3 day event (Bathurst is worse).

To use Ipswich as an example - there are usually 6 staff + supervisor on the public grandstand, another 6 +1 on the corporate stands. There are 8 on main gate, 4 on south gate, 4 on north gate paddock entry, 2 on paddock exit, and 1 supervisor for each gate. 3 Accreditation staff, 4 information booth staff, and 2 pit lane safety officers in the paddock.

That's 45 people, and we haven't even gotten to the track officials, scrutineers, marshalls, flag people and all the other behind the scenes people at work.

(Note this doesn't count paid staff such as ticket sellers, food and beverage concessions, and event officials such as stewards and people like the race secretary race control.

So at MINIMUM WAGE - that's $24,000 before you even put a uniform on them. Counting the track officials that's easily double that figure... and Ipswich is one of the smallest events on their calendar.

Then you've got to add more costs to administer the payroll, superannuation is going to add around another 10% to that figure also... but give them a patch, a poster, a program, a free ticket for a friend to come along, and a chance to watch a sport that they love for free - and suddenly you've eliminated all that extra cost...

VRTP get volunteers for filming, market research and all sorts of things for the cost of free entry and some lunch. Occasionally, i'm sure they pay for focus groups and the like, but your view of 'all labour should be paid' isn't 'the Australian way' as you suggest. There is a program that started down in Melbourne called 'Bartercard' - a cashless exchange of goods products services... I know many tradespeople who quote jobs for work done at friends houses in cases of beer that is clearly not priced at the cash equivalent. (As a matter of fact there is one case of VB that has been through about 8 peoples hands at this point because nobody likes that crap).

You are entitled to your view - but I do believe in this case it is very misguided to label our society and our culture as 'everything paid and anything else should be illegal' is not right - because by making anything else illegal you're also restricting the very freedoms that this same society and culture values so highly, and others from other societies value and cherish so highly that they will risk treacherous voyages on small leaky boats just to taste.

[pin142]

I have done work for a media production at the parks as an extra. I gave up my time (and sleep) to go to two parks early to be an extra for filming for a somewhat well known coaster show on a network that travels. I personally didn't care about payment for my time as it was a few hours spent riding two rides that are fun. Sure there was food put on and we were able to stay in the park after they had finished filming what was required but I did it for the opportunity and experience presented. Would I do it again if the opportunity arose? Easy yes. I am not the only one here involved with the filming of the production and would say they would have a similar response.

Some people may not find the idea of it attractive but I am willing to do some things for fun and the experience and not for the monetary gain. Once you start only doing things for money you will eventually lose the enjoyment you would normally get from what you are doing.

[Tim Dasco]

Well if they hire caters for extras they will be using fake emotions and they will be acting. If they got real teenagers to come in they will enjoy it more as there at the park for fun not for money. So overall the emotion looks more real in the video which makes for a better add.

[Richard]

I was once in the studio audience for a US sitcom. That multi-billion dollar industry paid us with a bit of candy and the promise of hearing ourselves laugh at unfunny jokes on national TV. I ended up falling asleep for a good portion of the filming, and the show was cancelled a few weeks later so the episode never aired.

There are plenty of situations where companies abuse the desirability of their product for the sake of free labour, but I'd be looking more at unpaid internships in the entertainment industry etc. rather than borrowing a few hours from willing participants for the sake of filming a TVC (or a sitcom).

[webslave]

So, in summary what we discovered is that the contention that this is unconscionable is old-school unionist rhetoric intended to suppress the will of the individual in order to line the pockets of the 'professional' whom in truth is working an entry-level job? Ha, and they say big business is greedy!

Do what you want. If you want to work for free in full knowledge that the company could probably afford to pay you that's 100% your choice; you probably won't do it forever so the task of finding someone else to replace you is a cost the company will have to bear regardless.

[BigKev]

Don't backtrack on your comments now - comparisons to volunteers is NOT ridiculous.

No backtracking here.

The comparison to volunteers at not for profit groups is ridiculous. Like the SES. They are people who volunteer to help their community in emergencies. No-one makes (we hope) any money out of their work.

They don't just come around to a house and fix a roof or lop a tree like the professionals you refer to. They come in an emergency and make the situation as good as they can until a professional can do the repairs properly.

Doing a job for a friend isn't an example that fits either. Unless someone is doing a job for a friend who then profits from that job and keeps all of it themselves and they would be a pretty ordinary friend.

On the V8s, I take the same line. If it is a business out to make money then it should pay a fair wage to anyone who works for it.

I'm going to leave this now as it is well off topic but I will never agree that exploitation is ok, regardless of whether of not the people being exploited realise it or even care.

[webslave]

Personal choice be damned!

Of course, people normally get paid to participate in market research. Does that mean companies can't solicit research without paying people? When you're at a televised event you're part of the broadcast - without you there a broadcast wouldn't happen; should we be paying you? Want to be on a talent show? I guess you need to be paid now, right? See someone stuck on the side of the road with a flat? Don't help them out for free - there are professionals paid to look after that stuff!

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

But that's just it - its not exploitation. Exploitation is the Asian electronics market where they pay ridiculously low sums of money in the full knowledge that if that guy doesn't do the job, someone else will step up.

The V8s are not exploiting the volunteers who work the event. The volunteers are quite happy with their lot - they get to see a sport they love, make good friends, and get to take home some souvenirs that aren't available to anyone else. To pay a workforce as large as the volunteer crew in the V8s, you'd be adding around $200,000 in costs per event. It's not just wages, it's the cost of administration (which is also done voluntarily), superannuation, state and federal wage taxes, as well as a higher cost for workers compensation insurance. (The events carry insurance but a paid workforce tends to elicit a higher premium).

This results in higher costs to the event organisers which all has to be passed on to ticketholders. This makes going to the race a more expensive exercise, which then results in less attendance. When the organisation has less people through the gates they have to do one of two things - cut costs (by reducing staff) or increase prices further. I can guarantee you that the events run on a pretty bare bones staff as it is, so if they reduce staffing, it takes you twice as long to get through the gate, and then you complain. Or - we increase ticket pricing, which drives even further people away, which in turn leads us back to the same dilemma. Eventually we can reduce staffing because we don't need as many staff to handle as many people, but this in turn reduces the fan base - it's all bad for the sport.

Do you suggest that events like the Olympics, and the Commonwealth Games (both of which cost an exorbitant amount of money) should pay all the volunteers too? What about the upcoming G20 in Brisbane - should all the folks who have volunteered as ambassadors, checkpoint and information folk be paid too?

And you were backtracking. Your original statement was that ALL labour should be paid a fair price. You didn't say "except for emergency service volunteers" or "except for charities and non-profits" - so by adding in those exceptions you have in fact backtracked.

You're pretty close to the money as far as the description of what the SES does in storm response... however those commercial roof repair arborers and tree loppers can still be called upon in the aftermath of a storm. In other countries where they do not have an SES or similar agency - that's what those people do - so despite the fact that in Australia the SES is a mandatory requirement under law for every state, by your own words, those guys are being exploited.

And many real estate agencies and landlords DO exploit the SES - by refusing to conduct routine maintenance, and relying on the SES to respond and repair the problem. Although big storms do require follow up treatment - many a time the repairs effected by the SES are a sufficient permanent fix.

And doing a job for a friend is a problem that fits. Your statement was that 'all labour should be paid' (and anything else should be illegal) - so a friends labour isn't worth the same, despite the fact the result is?

You also failed to address Bartercard. I'm no Melburnian, so I couldn't describe the process, but it is a cashless transaction system that doesn't require one to be friends with the guy performing the work... and it's perfectly legal.

Finally - and once again to put your 'unaustralian' claim to rest and rubbish - if volunteering isn't the Australian way - why does www.volunteeringaustralia.org exist with the support of the Australian federal Department of Social Services ? And why do we have a national 'volunteering week' every May?

I restate my earlier view, that you are entitled to your opinion, but I do believe it is misguided, and judging by the comments of others, you do appear to be in the minority.

I'm also happy to leave this as it is. 64 pages is a pretty long run for any topic on Parkz, and I think it's safe to say the topic has been well and truly covered at this point - it is however on topic as it revolves around the suggestion that Dreamworld were somehow exploiting teenagers, by asking them to enter the park early, ride some of their rides without queues, over and over again having a lot of fun, probably getting a snack or breakfast provided, and being able to remain inside the $80+ a day theme park free of charge, plus the perk of getting to see yourself on TV in a professionally produced commercial that is potentially shown around the country for the next 3-6 months.

Sounds like exploitation to me...

(not)

[BigKev]

it is however on topic

Ok then let's keep it going.

But that's just it - its not exploitation. Exploitation is the Asian electronics market where they pay ridiculously low sums of money in the full knowledge that if that guy doesn't do the job, someone else will step up.

I don't see much difference. Dreamworld are paying no money knowing there will be no shortage of teenagers who want to visit the park for free. Exploitation occurs regardless of if victim knows, cares or enjoys it.

by asking them to enter the park early, ride some of their rides without queues, over and over again having a lot of fun, probably getting a snack or breakfast provided, and being able to remain inside the $80+ a day theme park free of charge, plus the perk of getting to see yourself on TV in a professionally produced commercial that is potentially shown around the country for the next 3-6 months.

The net value of which costs Dreamworld essentially zero and one could argue that letting people into the park for free is a win for Dreamworld given they are likely to spend money in the park anyway.

Dreamworld is using people for its benefit without giving up any real compensation. There's nothing else it can be called but exploitation.

The V8s are not exploiting the volunteers who work the event. The volunteers are quite happy with their lot - they get to see a sport they love, make good friends, and get to take home some souvenirs that aren't available to anyone else. To pay a workforce as large as the volunteer crew in the V8s, you'd be adding around $200,000 in costs per event. It's not just wages, it's the cost of administration (which is also done voluntarily), superannuation, state and federal wage taxes, as well as a higher cost for workers compensation insurance. (The events carry insurance but a paid workforce tends to elicit a higher premium).

This results in higher costs to the event organisers which all has to be passed on to ticketholders. This makes going to the race a more expensive exercise, which then results in less attendance. When the organisation has less people through the gates they have to do one of two things - cut costs (by reducing staff) or increase prices further. I can guarantee you that the events run on a pretty bare bones staff as it is, so if they reduce staffing, it takes you twice as long to get through the gate, and then you complain. Or - we increase ticket pricing, which drives even further people away, which in turn leads us back to the same dilemma. Eventually we can reduce staffing because we don't need as many staff to handle as many people, but this in turn reduces the fan base - it's all bad for the sport.

As I said, whether or not someone is happy with the arrangement is irrelevant. Just because your job is enjoyable doesn't mean you shouldn't be paid to do it.

The points you make about V8 racing is actually the exact argument against Dreamworld. They are deliberately avoiding all of those costs and issues by taking this action.

Therefore they are increasing profits by asking people to work for free.

At the end of the day your business affords what it can afford. If Dreamworld can't afford to fund advertising then it shouldn't advertise until it adjusts its business model to allow it to.

If the V8s can't afford the staff they need then it also needs to review its business model and operations. Maybe it isn't viable as a professional sport.

Do you suggest that events like the Olympics, and the Commonwealth Games (both of which cost an exorbitant amount of money) should pay all the volunteers too? What about the upcoming G20 in Brisbane - should all the folks who have volunteered as ambassadors, checkpoint and information folk be paid too?

Do the Olympics, Commonwealth games and G20 make a profit for anyone? My feeling is that they don't.

And you were backtracking. Your original statement was that ALL labour should be paid a fair price. You didn't say "except for emergency service volunteers" or "except for charities and non-profits" - so by adding in those exceptions you have in fact backtracked.

You're pretty close to the money as far as the description of what the SES does in storm response... however those commercial roof repair arborers and tree loppers can still be called upon in the aftermath of a storm. In other countries where they do not have an SES or similar agency - that's what those people do - so despite the fact that in Australia the SES is a mandatory requirement under law for every state, by your own words, those guys are being exploited.

And many real estate agencies and landlords DO exploit the SES - by refusing to conduct routine maintenance, and relying on the SES to respond and repair the problem. Although big storms do require follow up treatment - many a time the repairs effected by the SES are a sufficient permanent fix.

And doing a job for a friend is a problem that fits. Your statement was that 'all labour should be paid' (and anything else should be illegal) - so a friends labour isn't worth the same, despite the fact the result is?

You also failed to address Bartercard. I'm no Melburnian, so I couldn't describe the process, but it is a cashless transaction system that doesn't require one to be friends with the guy performing the work... and it's perfectly legal.

Finally - and once again to put your 'unaustralian' claim to rest and rubbish - if volunteering isn't the Australian way - why does www.volunteeringaustralia.org exist with the support of the Australian federal Department of Social Services ? And why do we have a national 'volunteering week' every May?

The issue is you and I have different definitions.

When I refer to volunteering I mean working for a not for profit organisation, like the SES.

What you refer to as volunteering for organisations operating on a profit and loss basis I call unpaid labour.

What I call labour is being employed by an organisation to work, as opposed to volunteering or charity.

Being a volunteer is very much the Australian way, unpaid labour is not and I see them as being very different things.

Without a profit you can't be exploited, apart from on a goodwill basis.

I don't know anything about Bartercard but it sounds as though it is a very borderline proposition, once again exploitation exists even if two people exploit each other.

The lines here are often blurry as most questions of ethics are, but I think in this case the lines are clear.

Dreamworld is a profitable company, conducting a commercial venture and want to employ people to work in a marketing campaign for them, but not pay wages.

I restate my earlier view, that you are entitled to your opinion, but I do believe it is misguided, and judging by the comments of others, you do appear to be in the minority.

While Tony Abbott is Prime Minster of Australia I am more than happy to be in the minority!

[Brad2912]

Big Kev have you considered the positives of what DW are doing?

If they outsource their talent requisition to a modelling agency to get paid extras in for the day (whose to say they are not doing this for certain participants - the 'exploited' teens may just be background extras), then the only people able to take part will be those that have been recruited or accepted into said modelling agency, and paid (or had their parents pay) a contract/representation fee to the modelling agency. So straight away your social awkward, un-stereotypical kids, and those from low-socioeconomic families are immediately excluded from being involved. The kids put forward by the agency would then lose 10-20% of their fee in agency fees as well.

What dreamworld is doing is given every child an opportunity to be part of something special and unique, without them having to be an extroverted, australia's next top model contestant.

[Chubu]

People volunteer their time to add content to this site in the form of news, information, trip reports, photography, ect.

This site then makes money off the ad revenue generated by the traffic this content attracts.

We are clearly being exploited.

[Reanimated35]

People volunteer their time to add content to this site in the form of news, information, trip reports, photography, ect.

This site then makes money off the ad revenue generated by the traffic this content attracts.

We are clearly being exploited.

That's true. I now demand say $3000 each for every comment and photo I've added here.