Future Additions for Gold Coast Theme Parks

[KingdaKa]

1,300,000 people at say $99pp on average for a ticket (not counting repeated trips from passholders) = $128,700,000

2,900,000 at the same price (SFMM pricing is a little more complex, so it's easier) = $287,100,000

Dreamworld = 85ha

SFMM = 110ha

Now assume each park has a base operating cost of $1m per hectare, including ride operation, maintenance, wages etc (and ignoring the obvious additional income generated by concessions which would also have their own costs) and you're left with this:

Dreamworld = $128.7m - $85m = $43.7m

SFMM = $287.1m - $110m = $177.1m

That is obviously far more than "double", and $130m is, as you say - a "huge difference" - in terms of decent coasters - if we say $30m per coaster (allowing for compacts and mega coasters to average out), Dreamworld can afford 1 coaster, while SFMM can afford almost 6.

I have obviously taken some liberties with numbers, however - consider that the cost of construction in the USA is less than here, and many other operating costs (like wages, maintenance etc) are cheaper in the US than here. (This is why I felt the $1m per ha was a reasonable figure for comparison purposes)

Even if SFMM's operating costs for maintenance and wages are higher because of their higher coaster count... even if we made the operating costs $2M per ha for SFMM - they'd still be buying 2 coasters for every one dreamworld did - purely based on that attendance.

When you're looking at figures, remember that every business has a critical 'break even' point for their cost of sales. Once both parks reach that point, every person through the door really doesn't add that much to the cost, because the rides are going to run, require maintenance etc whether there are people there to ride it or not - so double the people doesn't double the costs - and hence why SFMM is able to buy and build more and more than dreamworld ever will.

Your calculations are unfair.

1st, Dreamworld is much more expensive than Six Flags to visit.

Secondly, it is 106 to 85, not 110, but that's just finicky.

Thirdly, you can not base costs on land. You have to base it on personnel etc. Six flags has many more operating costs as they have so many more coasters. Therefore, it is unfair to say that Dreamworld is so close in the costs department. You even said yourself that it should be 2 to 1 if it is twice as expensive (which it would be close to) so therefore if they have 18 we should have 9. And of the same cost for that matter. If you are going to say money spent on coasters then realistically it is 5 lots of $2 Million for Dreamworld compared to 18 lots of about 10 Million for SFMM which is 10 Million AUD compared to 180 Million USD... Even if I am being ridiculous there and it is actually lets say $4 Million compared to $8 Million then the reality is that it is still $20 Million AUD to $144 USD...

Fourthly, you are saying that 3 times as people go to SFMM, which isn't true, it is less than 2.5.

As I have said already, Dreamworld can either justify having less Coasters than SFMM or worse quality, but not both. If we go by a moderated prediction that SFMM should have lets say 2.5 times as many coasters of the same quality based on cost, Dreamworld is still behind. Their spending on coasters is too low.

[Richard]

Are we just plucking numbers out of nowhere?

Six Flags Magic Mountain only operates around 250 days a year. By the figures quoted above, Six Flags Magic Mountain averages around 11,600 guests per day. Dreamworld's attendance is about 3,500 per day. Evidently, Dreamworld should have 30% the number of coasters that Six Flags Magic Mountain has, which works out to 5.4 roller coasters. With TOT, Cyclone, Madagascar, Motocoaster and Buzzsaw, we're only short 0.4 coasters. Or does Eureka Mountain count as 40% of a coaster?

While I'd agree that the price of daily tickets to our theme parks borders on ridiculous, the discounted annual passes they offer now are compellingly priced for locals, and certainly make up a significant percentage of total business. Dreamworld's per capita spend is AUD$49. Six Flags as a whole has per capita spend of about USD$43. Converting for currency, these are pretty much identical per-guest spending figures. But then when we factor in operating expenses like wages (an $8/hr ride attendant in the USA is making around $20/hr in Australia), electricity (roughly 50% higher in Australia than California) and the capital expense for rides (Buzzsaw cost about 50% more than identical rides overseas as an example) and the idea of comparing the two parks becomes absurd.

I would tend to agree that Australian theme parks are generally lacking in their ability to offer a full day of activities and would love to see every park here get become more proactive and actually build on the total experience they offer instead of replacing old rides with new. However I don't think comparing Dreamworld to one of the world's largest and most-attended regional theme parks is really all that logical.

[KingdaKa]

Dreamworld must be almost empty in non-Holidays. It is always packed when I'm there

Was BuzzSaw really that expensive... And it is such a bad ride...

[Reanimated35]

It's not so much a "bad" ride. It's actually pretty good for what it does. IMO it would be better if it did another cycle per ride though.

[KingdaKa]

It's not so much a "bad" ride. It's actually pretty good for what it does. IMO it would be better if it did another cycle per ride though.

Yeah that's my problem. I also don't think it is scary enough given the hype it got and the capacity and ride time are way too low for my liking. The queue is always too long. I would definitely prefer 4 cars and two circuits. Or even better 4 across floorless seating. IMO the Superman launched equivalent with an extra circuit is so much better. Also the launches

[Reanimated35]

I've never had to wait in the queue longer than 10 minutes. Just go on the quiet days.

[downunder196]

Not sure if anyone remembers but when it first opened they would run an extended cycle if you asked and there wasn't a long line. Then they got complaints and now they aren't allowed to run them under any circumstances. The extended cycle definitely made the ride better from a length sense anyway.

[Brad2912]

I've never had to wait in the queue longer than 10 minutes. Just go on the quiet days.

Same. Non-school holidays and if you're waiting longer than 10-15mins there must be a tech issue. They churn em through pretty quick, partially due to the only 1 cycle rule

[Reanimated35]

As far as coasters go, that's probably the fastest to load and dispatch (apart from Scooby) on the coast.

[KingdaKa]

I've only been on it once and it was in holidays (I live in Sydney and go to school) and it was like 40 mins...

Why did they get complaints and why aren't they allowed to run longer? I have never seen them run better than 3 min cycles every (which is capacity 240 per hour, ridiculously low)

[Reanimated35]

I have never seen them run better than 3 min cycles every (which is capacity 240 per hour, ridiculously low)

That's because you're expecting everything to be on par with large American parks. Everyone else here is smart enough to realise that isn't the case here and never will be.

[Brad2912]

I'm Happy with 3 minute cycles personally. Just don't go in school holidays

[Reanimated35]

I think we'd all be happy if we could get 3 minute cycles on Cyclone...

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Given the ACTUAL ride time is around 2:55 (not counting computer controlled parking), 3 minute cycles will never be seen on Cyclone... kinda impossible.

[Reanimated35]

Oh really? Feels so much shorter when you're on it.

[nitromefans]

Not sure if anyone remembers but when it first opened they would run an extended cycle if you asked and there wasn't a long line. Then they got complaints and now they aren't allowed to run them under any circumstances. The extended cycle definitely made the ride better from a length sense anyway.

I was at dreamworld on the day after ekka show holiday (Tuesday) and the attendant was running double cycles all day. The thing was essentially walk on for the whole day.

Edited October 2, 2014 by nitromefans

[Gazza]

we're only short 0.4 coasters. Or does Eureka Mountain count as 40% of a coaster?

Shockwave, clearly Richard!

[KingdaKa]

That's because you're expecting everything to be on par with large American parks. Everyone else here is smart enough to realise that isn't the case here and never will be.

Why is it unrealistic to expect faster than 3 minute cycles :help: American parks operate at close to 1500 Capacity, not 240. I didn't realise that asking for faster than 240 was such a ridiculous request.

BTW Cyclone is slightly under 2 minutes from start to finish as you can see in POVs. Therefore 3 minute cycles is difficult but not ridiculous. 3.5 would be nice, but I think they're probably around 4 at the moment.

[Reanimated35]

Why is it unrealistic to expect faster than 3 minute cycles :help: American parks operate at close to 1500 Capacity, not 240. I didn't realise that asking for faster than 240 was such a ridiculous request.

In a perfect world, it's not. But spend a day at a park on the coast and you'll see what we mean.

[KingdaKa]

In a perfect world, it's not. But spend a day at a park on the coast and you'll see what we mean.

I have... And it is not unrealistic to tell lazy 14 year olds to work a little more efficiently...

[iwerks]

Tell that to them and they'll be extra fast.

[Reanimated35]

Imagine how fast they'd be if you even said "please"?!

[downunder196]

There are young people working in the states (younger than some operators here) who work on almost a third of the wages who seem to enjoy their jobs a hell of a lot more and work a LOT more faster. I'm talking parks like SFMM and that has nothing to do with budgets. You can have a tiny family owned park with a lot more efficient operations than a multi billion dollar resort. I have personally never worked at a park but I can only assume operators shouldn't be chatting about their weekend over a roller coaster car while everyone is waiting to be dispatched. I honestly don't see the need for all the sarcasm. Our parks can do better and their is no reason they can't. They shouldn't be stepping up their game for busy events like Fright Nights, they should be efficient all year round no matter what the crowds are like.

[iwerks]

Wait I'm agreeing with reanimated? I think we're trying to say is that there's no need to be rude to the ride ops. The Abyss guys at AW are great.

[Reanimated35]

I thought we were still taking the piss out of the other guy?