Why Australia has such horrible thrill rides?

[jack.c]

I just got back from visiting the US for the second time this year, went to Knotts berry farm, Six flags magic mountain, six flags great adventure & cedar point.

Knotts berry farm is pretty much located in the ghetto of LA.

Great adventure is all the way in in the middle of nowhere, in the woods.

Cedar point is on some random island in the middle of nowhere.

Magic mountain.. pretty much close to the city, but still.. It got me thinking, how can such expensive theme parks be located in such crappy areas? you'd think the areas these parks are located would indicate crappy, dreamworld like rides. But no, the rides at the theme parks i went to were beyond amazing.

Will Australian theme parks ever pick up there game? I mean, what is this new "Tail Spin" crap ride? its just sad. Gold coast theme parks would make 100x more than a random six flag them parks could (which are located in the middle of nowhere).. why cant they just build something good on the gold coast with millions of tourist!?

If you have any questions about the roller coasters at the above parks I'm happy to answer them by the way

Edited September 7, 2014 by jack.c

[mba2012]

You might think that they're in the middle of nowhere, but really, the catchment area for those parks could be five times the population of the south east Queensland. Alton towers for example, is located in the middle of nowhere, you need to go down small country roads to get to it, but within two hours drive of the park, are about 10-14 million people. The number of people within two hours drive of Dreamworld is about 3 million people. Even if only half of the population goes to a theme park, Alton towers will still get more visitors than population in South East Queensland.

So, you're very, very wrong when you say a Gold Coast theme park would make 100x more than a random six flags. If south east Queensland had a population (tourist visitation) of 10-14 million people, then we might be able to see some amazing B&M's, but we don't, so we can't.

[jack.c]

You might think that they're in the middle of nowhere, but really, the catchment area for those parks could be five times the population of the south east Queensland. Alton towers for example, is located in the middle of nowhere, you need to go down small country roads to get to it, but within two hours drive of the park, are about 10-14 million people. The number of people within two hours drive of Dreamworld is about 3 million people. Even if only half of the population goes to a theme park, Alton towers will still get more visitors than population in South East Queensland.

So, you're very, very wrong when you say a Gold Coast theme park would make 100x more than a random six flags. If south east Queensland had a population (tourist visitation) of 10-14 million people, then we might be able to see some amazing B&M's, but we don't, so we can't.

You see, you're also wrong here. Locals don't tend to spend every single weekend @ dreamworld/movie world. Its not about the locals, its about bringing in the tourist, I'm pretty sure the gold coast brings in 12 million visits per year, which I'm sure alot of those numbers would visit our parks: http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/thegoldcoast/default.html

Edit: I checked the exact numbers of Dreamworlds intake & they pull in around 1.5 million per year: http://www.dreamworld.com.au/schools/pdf/dw-schools-faqs.pdf

ALL six flags theme parks bring in a combined 25 million per year: https://www.sixflags.com/greatadventure/partners (there are 13 six flag them parks over the US)

which means.. 1.9 million visitors each year visit EACH ONE of six flags theme parks ( I divided the 25 million by 13 to get that number)

So.. that means that on average a theme park in the US will have almost the same amount of visitors that dreamworld would per year, yet there parks can manage up to 10 multimillion dollar rides in each park whilst being able to gain enough profit to build more and more and improve over the years.

Dreamworld can afford it, but they're too money hungry. We remain the losers of the theme park industry.

I guess we will never know.

Edited September 7, 2014 by jack.c

[themeparkgc]

2013 attendance for the parks mentioned:

Knott's Berry Farm -- 3,683,000

Cedar Point -- 3,382,000

Magic Mountain -- 2,906,000

Great Adventure -- 2,800,000

http://www.teaconnect.org/pdf/TEAAECOM2013.pdf

[jack.c]

2013 attendance for the parks mentioned:

Knott's Berry Farm -- 3,683,000

Cedar Point -- 3,382,000

Magic Mountain -- 2,906,000

Great Adventure -- 2,800,000

http://www.teaconnect.org/pdf/TEAAECOM2013.pdf

Well, I'm sure dreamworlds average of 1.5 could be higher also.

Also, I'm sure those numbers were alot lower before they started to build good rides, the visitors each year would have spiked dramatically per new ride they built.

If our parks built something worth travelling for, I'm sure our average for dreamworld could be 2.5 a year within 10 years. They need to take risk & spend money to make money, I'm sick of our rides, they have been the same my entire life almost.

Edited September 7, 2014 by jack.c

[Tim Dasco]

Well i live in Perth and for me to go to the Gold cost again. I would want some world class roller coster at dreamworld. Like what Cedar Point has. Flat rides do not give the same impact as roller coasters do.

[mba2012]

You see, you're also wrong here. Locals don't tend to spend every single weekend @ dreamworld/movie world. Its not about the locals, its about bringing in the tourist, I'm pretty sure the gold coast brings in 12 million visits per year, which I'm sure alot of those numbers would visit our parks: http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/thegoldcoast/default.html

That's 12 million visits, not visitors. The majority of people visiting the Gold Coast are people from within about 2 hours drive of the Gold Coast. Only about 1 million of those are international visitors and about 5 million are domestic visitors (not local).

I do admit, our parks do need some amazing new rides, but with it costing about 3 times more to build/do things (based off minimum wage levels) here than it does in America, I don't really see that happening.

[jack.c]

That's 12 million visits, not visitors. The majority of people visiting the Gold Coast are people from within about 2 hours drive of the Gold Coast. Only about 1 million of those are international visitors and about 5 million are domestic visitors (not local).

I do admit, our parks do need some amazing new rides, but with it costing about 3 times more to build/do things (based off minimum wage levels) here than it does in America, I don't really see that happening.

it clearly says "While the Gold Coast remains a favourite tourism destination, attracting 12 million visitors each year, the city's economy is diversifying."

What are you talking about?

Edited September 7, 2014 by jack.c

[AllegroCrab]

GC Parks would not make 100x more than the four parks you mentioned.

2013 attendance for the parks mentioned:

Knott's Berry Farm -- 3,683,000

Cedar Point -- 3,382,000

Magic Mountain -- 2,906,000

Great Adventure -- 2,800,000

http://www.teaconnect.org/pdf/TEAAECOM2013.pdf

Being in a crappy area doesn't mean less people will come. Think of how far everyone in Australia travels to go to the GC parks. The population of the US is about 13x that of Australia, so the amount of people who are within 100km of these parks is massive.

The park would actually benefit by being in these areas because they don't need to pay as much for the land. The cost of workers, transport, everything to do with building a world-class ride is cheaper. There are more people going to the parks, there is more demand for the rides, there is more of a theme-park culture and following. Everything is on their side to build 'better' rides.

I think it is a matter of quantity over quality. There are some great rides here in Australia that wouldn't look out of place at a US park, but there just isn't enough demand for anything better.

Why would the parks feel obliged to spend the money just so a few theme-park eggheads on a forum are happy? We may be the parks' biggest fans, but we are definitely a minority of their market.

[westical]

So.. that means that on average a theme park in the US will have almost the same amount of visitors that dreamworld would per year, yet there parks can manage up to 10 multimillion dollar rides in each park whilst being able to gain enough profit to build more and more and improve over the years.

Six Flags was bankrupt in 2009.

[iwerks]

it clearly says "While the Gold Coast remains a favourite tourism destination, attracting 12 million visitors each year, the city's economy is diversifying."

What are you talking about?

Diversifying - not everyone goes to Surfers to go to the theme parks - perhaps they go surfing? I agree with the two posts above. Most Australians would be quite happy for us to go back to the theme park situation we had in 1974. Most of them don't care about thrill rides or theme parks.

Will Australian theme parks ever pick up there game? I mean, what is this new "Tail Spin" crap ride? its just sad. Gold coast theme parks would make 100x more than a random six flag them parks could (which are located in the middle of nowhere).. why cant they just build something good on the gold coast with millions of tourist!?

Congrats on getting on the Tail Spin so early. It's a shame you didn't like it.

[Brad2912]

Jack, I'm questioning whether you should have sarcasm tags around some of your original post.

Australia is not the USA. Ardent Leisure is not Six Flags.

Enthusiasts in Australia are a lot more limited than those in the states. Capital expenditure is very different.

You are being unrealistic, and I think you know that

[pin142]

Not all thrill rides are horrible, Wipeout, Claw and Drop are examples of some of the best thrill rides you can find in the world. As far as coasters go our parks can't simply throw US$20+ million on a coaster and get the same return as a park in the US would. Look at what Six Flags did prior to bankruptcy as a fine example of what would happen if our parks were to do this sort of spending on a regular basis. Coasters? Well we may not have the best in the world but look at Superman and Scooby, these are two examples of world class coasters and prove you don't have to spend a large amount to get something decent.

I would love to see something like Banshee or Gatekeeper over here but you have to look at it from the parks view, will it get the same return spending the US$20+ million as it would spending much less on something like a RMC wood/steel hybrid. Our parks are aimed at a much smaller audience than what the US parks are and what they add is based on this. Very few people will travel to the Gold Coast for the theme parks, especially from overseas. They are usually here for other reasons and the parks are a small part of why they are in Australia to begin with. We are known for beaches, Sydney Harbour Bridge, Opera House, kangaroos and koalas and not theme parks as far as overseas tourists are concerned.

[Jay Jay The Jet Plane]

Jack, I'm questioning whether you should have sarcasm tags around some of your original post.

I'm not sure if the sarcasm tags even work anymore!

Anyways this seems to be a topic doesn't even make sense

I personally like the thrill rides here at Gold Coast.

I enjoy Scooby and Wild West Falls ,Storm, Pandamonium and Wipeout for the thrill rides here at the Gold Coast. And yes I will ride TailSpin and yes I will avoid to move those sticks though

Edited September 7, 2014 by The_Ninja_59

[Tim Dasco]

Im just going to say,

Maverick: 21 Million USD

Wicked Twist: 9 Million USD

Mantis (B&M Coster): 12 Million USD

Magnum Xl-2000: 8 Million USD

Blue Streak: 0.2 million USD

Gemini: 3.4 Million USD

Corkscrew: 1.75 Million USD

Iron Dragon: 4 Million USD

X-Flight: 15 Million USD

Intimidator: 23 Million USD

Movie World

Green Lantern coster: ???

Arkham Asylum: 16 Million AUS

Scooby-Doo Spooky Coaster: 13 Million AUS

Superman Escape: 16 Million AUS

Wild West falls: 18 Million AUS

Justice League: 9 Million AUS

Batwing Spaceshot: 5 Million AUS

Sea World

Storm: 20 Million AUS

Bermuda Triangle: 10 Million AUS

Dreamworld

MDMC: 10 Million AUS

Cyclone: 2 Million AUS (I think)

BuzzSaw: 7 Million AUS

TOTII: ????

Adventure World

Abyss: 12 Million USD

So if Adventure World can do 12 Million i think that Dreamworld could do more money and not be at a loss.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Tim Dasco

[XxMrYoshixX]

Cyclone combined with its original LPS cost is well over $2 million. Dreamworld bought the ride for 2 million dollars

Tower of terror, I think was $18 million. Scooby was $12 million.

Edited September 7, 2014 by XxMrYoshixX

[Tim Dasco]

So there is prof of Australian theme parks can effort these attractions they just don't want to get them.

[BigKev]

For the layman posters can anyone give an example of the sort of stuff that people feel is lacking?

[Reanimated35]

A floorless B&M inverted, launched wooden suspended coaster.

[Brad2912]

So there is prof of Australian theme parks can effort these attractions they just don't want to get them.

But with the exception of Storm (where half the reported fee was likely the demo of BT and site clearance) no recent additions have been anywhere near the lofty costs of ToT.

[rappa]

Let's point out cedar point gets 3.6 million visits in only 5 months!

And at all these parks people aren't paying $33 (100 divided by 3 parks) for unlimited entry for a whole year!

[BigKev]

A floorless B&M inverted, launched wooden suspended coaster.

Does one of them exist already somewhere? I tried to google but could only find the individual words, not altogether.

[downunder196]

Let's point out cedar point gets 3.6 million visits in only 5 months!

And at all these parks people aren't paying $33 (100 divided by 3 parks) for unlimited entry for a whole year!

Your point about Cedar Point is very correct, same as most other US parks but...

I recently got a Six Flags season pass for US$80 which is good for what like 14 parks? You do the math.

[Tim Dasco]

Well i have just shown you some of these coaster listed above. Australian theme parks have spent the same amount of money on some god coasters but sum not so good. For the money they paid they could get a better value for their money. Blue streak was only 200,000 USD. Also Adventure World spent 12 Million USD for Abyss. MW, DW, SW extra can do it and should be able to pay more. The Latest cost for new attractions to the gold coast is getting cheaper and cheaper over years. (Dreamworld is starting to lift their game). MW has gone down hill, HSD2, Justice League in terms of price.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

It's also worth mentioning that when comparing Six Flags, (and the others too) that they are all chain parks.

Six flags gets the returns on the coasters it buys by moving them around. Sure construction comes at a cost, but you can get consistent repeat attendance at every park by shuffling the lineup in the off season. Not everyone can visit all the 6 flags parks, but by moving around some of the blockbusters, it achieves 'new ride' status again simply by building it somewhere else.

It would be like swapping Green Lantern with Abyss in a year's time. both would be a new experience for people on the other coast. I'd love to ride Abyss, but when a trip to Perth costs more than Hong Kong or Singapore - the lure of world class parks like Disney and Universal wins over a Euro in a standalone park every time.

As for the other claims of the OP -

Dreamworld isn't going to pull anywhere near the attendance, or the dollars of SFMM. Sure some of the smaller Six Flags parks may be on par, but you're talking about the financial capability of 13 parks... not 1 (i'm not counting water parks here).

America's coaster nuts are mostly domestic. There are a few die-hard riders the world over (look in the mirror) that would go to the USA to ride, but the predominant market for the parks like Six Flags and Cedar Point are DOMESTIC. The figures already provided show why domestic populations between AUS and USA are incomparable.

Side note - KBF is only a few k's from the Happiest Place on Earth... hardly 'Ghetto'.

You should go and check out what attendance EACH six flags park got. You'll find SFMM (which holds a record for most coasters in the world) will probably be well above the average that you got by dividing equally the attendance of all 13 parks.

Naturally some of the smalltime parks in b*ttf*ck idaho aren't going to pull the same numbers... but they're also not building mega-multi-million-dollar coasters either *(unless they're part of the ride-sharing program receiving hand-me-downs or short-term-loans)

If Ardent were 'money hungry' - i think they'd be building more, and expanding more. Clearly that is working for Six Flags who are dropping millions on rides for their 13 parks. If they could afford it - Ardent would be doing that too... the facts are simple - (and Disney have said it too) Australia just cannot support a mega-theme park.