Scooby-Doo needs some love

[Reanimated35]

^ That, plus clean and touch-up the existing theming. 

[pushbutton]

I believe it does give return on investment, by both attracting new visitors to the park (provided it's marketed well) and helping to persuade locals to renew annual passes. 

[rappa]

As a business you have to look at it this way. Will a 300k makeover directly drive the sale of an additional 3-4000 VIP passes? If you can't quantify this to your shareholders, you can't spend their money on it. 

[pushbutton]

Sadly that's the way many businesses have to be run these days. 

[Jobe]

Sadly that's the way many businesses have to be run these days. 

Seriously ? Its called good businesss sense. Why would you invest a serious amount of money on a business without getting any real, tangible return for that investment? There is no "sadly" about it.  This is a business maxim at its most simple.  You have to remember that the Park's are a business and as such , are bound by their investors interests. 

Maybe a trip to economics 101 is required?

[ScienticianLady]

In a perfect world I see it like buying a car - if you can't afford the maintenance and ongoing costs you can't afford the car. Unfortunately things happen and costs blow out, something else loses money etc and this changes plans. However, I am a big believer that spending money makes you money (eg how the Westfirls shopping centres spend millions on renos every 10-15 years or so). 

On reading my post I'm not sure what my point is but I'm trying to be a good forum person people thing. I might have had a few wines. 

[westical]

Westfirls kind of gave it away.

[pushbutton]

In a perfect world I see it like buying a car - if you can't afford the maintenance and ongoing costs you can't afford the car. Unfortunately things happen and costs blow out, something else loses money etc and this changes plans. However, I am a big believer that spending money makes you money (eg how the Westfirls shopping centres spend millions on renos every 10-15 years or so). 

On reading my post I'm not sure what my point is but I'm trying to be a good forum person people thing. I might have had a few wines. 

Well put (despite the wines)!

That's sort of what I was trying to say. 

A good business ensures it provides its shareholders with a good financial return and makes a profit. 

A GREAT business though (and there's only a few)  sees a bigger picture than that, and ultimately ends up making a lot MORE money in the long run, and sometimes even makes the world a better place!

 

Edited June 3, 2015 by pushbutton

[ScienticianLady]

*adds "Trademark 'Westfirls'" to list of things to do*

[T-bone]

Whats with all the hate towards the live action Scooby? It was well casted, and well scripted. Yes the follow on movie (SD2) wasn't anywhere near as good, but the live action original was damn good. The theme is still relevant and well done despite some maintenance issues. I would say it could do with some plussing as has been suggested above, but certainly a change in theme to a generic scooby cartoon would be a step backwards IMHO. 

[Brad2912]

Good cast & script? Come off it...

[T-bone]

Yeah, I feel the cast chosen did a good job playing the roles they were assigned. Linda Cardelini and Matthew Lillard being the stand out performers. Maybe I have personal vested bias, maybe I don't, and movies depend on peoples personal likes, but I thought it did a great job of bringing the cartoon to life. 

[Brad2912]

Lillard was well cast, no doubt.

that ends the positives (apart from it being filmed in Australia so boosting our cinemac profile

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I'm with Joz. 

Just go all out and do some serious lighting install in the 'disco room' and leave it as just that. 

But justifying spending 100s of 1000s of dollars on an older attraction is very difficult to do unless it's something iconic like space mountain  because it just doesn't give any return on investment. 

​The next time WB Studios decides to do a reboot of the live-action Scooby Doo franchise, THAT will be the only time where the park should take the time (and money) to capitalise on the new release... "The New Doo" - even if it is only an updated lighting package in the disco room.

Lillard was well cast, no doubt.

that ends the positives (apart from it being filmed in Australia so boosting our cinemac profile

I'm with Tbone - ​Lillard AND Cardellini both did a stellar job. FPJ and SMG were a bit cringeworthy - but take a look back at the cartoons, and you'll find it was Velma, Shaggy and Scooby who had the starring roles - Velma worked out the clues, and Sh\Sc provided the comedic relief. Early days for Daphne were a helpless female always getting kidnapped and needing rescuing. All Fred ever did was state the obvious.

Only good acting those two did in the film were the 'body swap' scenes.

Having done a lot of research on the film recently - and on the topic of casting - I am absolutely cut about what could have been - Tim Curry was originally slated to play the villain, however when he learned his character would later be found to be a robot housing for Scrappy-Doo, he pulled out of the project. Tim Curry is THE villain actor - but sadly he (like me) hates Scrappy-Doo.

Edited June 4, 2015 by AlexB

[Zanstabar]

So let me get this straight, Scrappy-Doo caused Dr. Frank-N-Furter to pull out of a family movie based around a cartoon from the 60's? 

 

Great. Thanks Scrappy. 

 

Anyway, Cardellini and Lillard did a really good job in the film (I should know, I watched it on repeat when I was younger). The reason I'm not to keen on the park using the live action film  too much is that it's not really a classic. It's not a film like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs or even Jurassic Park for that matter. Right now, I think it's fine, but in a couple of years it will definitely be dated. 

Not to start our argument back up AlexB, but I'm not suggesting that the park guts the ride then rebuilds from the ashes. Most of the ride fits the franchise like a glove (such as the castle setting and even the cars for that matter). If I was changing the ride, it would mainly just be swapping out the villain animatronics mannequins for some classic Scooby villains. Things like the Grim Reaper to Captain Cutler's ghost, or the monster from the film that drops from the ceiling into a vampire. 

[Richard]

The film was a criminal waste of Rowan Atkinson's talent. That's enough reason to hate it.

[Zanstabar]

I would certainly classify JP as a modern day Classic. 22 years since release, still immensely popular, and was really the first 'wow' Film that ushered in the age of CGI

​That's exactly my point. JP is a classic because it has set a new standard in the industry that is still loved and referenced by many, even today. The Scooby Doo film doesn't exactly have people quoting lines from the film within a general conversation does it?

 

Contrast this though, with your suggestion to remove ' generica  monster number 1' and 'laughing masked villain number 1' and even 'roaring wolfman creature number 1' with 'grim reaper' (as if that wasn't the ultimate Hallowe'en  generica ), and 'the monster from that film that does stuff'... Have you really changed it? Would people go " oooooooh ! There's grim reaper from episode 37!!! Hi Grim!!! *waves*" or " ooooh !!!  Thats  the monster from that film that drops from the ceiling into a vampire!!!!! Hi TMFTFTDFTCIAV!!!!!!"

"Classic Scooby VIllains" are what you have in the ride now - random monsters that may or may not be real, or just a costume worn by old man withers.

​​I understand what you're saying about that. The monsters currently are pretty generic, and changing them out for a generic Dracula type isn't exactly classic Scooby (bad planning on my part), but the series has had some classic villains. Think of Captain Cutlers ghost or the Black Knight. While not exactly original, they are iconic to the series. What I would like to see are more of those classic characters from the series. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Before my statement gets distorted - with regard to JP - I am not, have not, will not say JP doesn't qualify as a 'classic'. It's one of my favourite franchises and my wife feels exactly the same (although we quibble over which one is better)... my specific point is that i've never heard (or considered) it referred to as a Classic before today - with my view that a 'classic' is kind of that 'golden age' of hollywood, or animation. "Walt Disney Classics" was always releasing things like Snow White, or Bambi. It'd be a hard argument to say Frozen is a classic - but chances are it will enter that category at some point.

I guess for me, JP just doesn't feel like it's been around long enough to earn that status... and then complete strangers mung on about how the film has been out 22 years, and suddenly I feel really old.

 

As for Captain Cutler's Ghost, or the Black Knight - the point is ALL of Scooby's villains were generic. I mean come on - you've offered two examples of "non-generic villains" and one of them is the black knight?

There was rarely any backstory or motivation behind the villain other than 'loot'. Scooby as a series went through different iterations that offered different things - earlier eps were local crackpots in a mask that "would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids" but as the series wore on, there was only so much they could do 'realistically' and so they started working with supernatural themes and creating REAL ghosts and such that couldn't be explained by Velma with a reveal at the end whilst the police hold onto the guy in cuffs... and I think thats when the series went downhill - the supernatural beings that had no 'human' motivation - really - weren't winnable... how do you imprison a Ghost?

So let's analyse how well those 'iconic' villains did in the series...

(Reference : http://scoobydoo.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_monsters_and_villains )

Total appearances for Captain Cutler's Ghost: ONE

Total appearances for The Black Knight: TWO.

Interestingly enough - they are the first two villains ever encountered within the original Scooby Doo - Where are you? Series. I'm inclined to say - less iconic, but possibly more memorable simply because they were the first two episodes on the VHS cassette that got watched over and over - and therefore stuck around a bit more.

The Black Knight doesn't make his second appearance until Ep6 of S3 - and never again since then. Hardly "iconic" when you're considering there's pretty much a new villain every episode (and in later series the 7 minute shorts meant an 'episode' consisted of more than one mystery, and therefore more than one villain), totalling well over 200...

 

[pushbutton]

So let me get this straight, Scrappy-Doo caused Dr. Frank-N-Furter to pull out of a family movie based around a cartoon from the 60's? 

 

Great. Thanks Scrappy. 

 

Anyway, Cardellini and Lillard did a really good job in the film (I should know, I watched it on repeat when I was younger). The reason I'm not to keen on the park using the live action film  too much is that it's not really a classic. It's not a film like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs or even Jurassic Park for that matter. Right now, I think it's fine, but in a couple of years it will definitely be dated. 

Not to start our argument back up AlexB, but I'm not suggesting that the park guts the ride then rebuilds from the ashes. Most of the ride fits the franchise like a glove (such as the castle setting and even the cars for that matter). If I was changing the ride, it would mainly just be swapping out the villain animatronics mannequins for some classic Scooby villains. Things like the Grim Reaper to Captain Cutler's ghost, or the monster from the film that drops from the ceiling into a vampire. 

It's themed perfectly. As I said earlier if anything could make it even better, it would be to darken the wild mouse section, and add a couple of spooky surprises and a spooky soundtrack in that area. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by pushbutton

[Zanstabar]

Before my statement gets distorted - with regard to JP - I am not, have not, will not say JP doesn't qualify as a 'classic'. It's one of my favourite franchises and my wife feels exactly the same (although we quibble over which one is better)... my specific point is that i've never heard (or considered) it referred to as a Classic before today - with my view that a 'classic' is kind of that 'golden age' of hollywood, or animation. "Walt Disney Classics" was always releasing things like Snow White, or Bambi. It'd be a hard argument to say Frozen is a classic - but chances are it will enter that category at some point.

I guess for me, JP just doesn't feel like it's been around long enough to earn that status... and then complete strangers mung on about how the film has been out 22 years, and suddenly I feel really old.

​​Classic may be too strong of a word, but I would definitely say it comes close. I probably could've worded my original text a bit better, but that was the wording that accurately portrayed my message. 

As for Captain Cutler's Ghost, or the Black Knight - the point is ALL of Scooby's villains were generic. I mean come on - you've offered two examples of "non-generic villains" and one of them is the black knight?

There was rarely any backstory or motivation behind the villain other than 'loot'. Scooby as a series went through different iterations that offered different things - earlier eps were local crackpots in a mask that "would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids" but as the series wore on, there was only so much they could do 'realistically' and so they started working with supernatural themes and creating REAL ghosts and such that couldn't be explained by Velma with a reveal at the end whilst the police hold onto the guy in cuffs... and I think thats when the series went downhill - the supernatural beings that had no 'human' motivation - really - weren't winnable... how do you imprison a Ghost?

So let's analyse how well those 'iconic' villains did in the series...

(Reference : http://scoobydoo.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_monsters_and_villains )

Total appearances for Captain Cutler's Ghost: ONE

Total appearances for The Black Knight: TWO.

Interestingly enough - they are the first two villains ever encountered within the original Scooby Doo - Where are you? Series. I'm inclined to say - less iconic, but possibly more memorable simply because they were the first two episodes on the VHS cassette that got watched over and over - and therefore stuck around a bit more.

The Black Knight doesn't make his second appearance until Ep6 of S3 - and never again since then. Hardly "iconic" when you're considering there's pretty much a new villain every episode (and in later series the 7 minute shorts meant an 'episode' consisted of more than one mystery, and therefore more than one villain), totalling well over 200...

​I used those two as examples as they are FREQUENTLY seen in Scooby-Doo merchandising and memorabilia. While I agree that they haven't appeared in the series as often or that they are original ideas, they are definitely seen in merchandise associated with Scooby-Doo.

These are what I would call the classic villains. The characters, while not exactly the most original or have the most appearances in the show, are considered iconic in relation to the franchise. Take a look at the Haunted Mansion as an example of this. The hatbox ghost was only in the mansion on I believe the first day of operations, before being removed. Even after one appearance and a 46 year disappearance, he is still associated and seen in most imagery and art based around the Haunted Mansion. 

End of the day, if the park decided that the live-action film is not being widely recognized (and maybe the ride is in need of a lengthy rehab...), then I would love to see these iconic villains take the place of the monsters that are in there now. I feel like they could really capture the essence of this classic franchise and make it really feel like you're on one of Mystery Inc.'s crazy adventures.

I get your side of the argument AlexB. I don't want you to be thinking "Ugh, this bloody internet wanker won't let down, just keeps drilling his point". I understand exactly where you are coming from in that most of these characters aren't in a lot of episodes, and aren't original concepts. But hey, you can only fully realize an idea when you are fighting for it!

[Gary86]

It would be great if they added another song to the disco room like this one. They can still play the MxPx song but it adds variety. Also have cartoons in the queue line instead of that behind the scenes video...

 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Also have cartoons in the queue line instead of that behind the scenes video...

​The issue with both of your suggestions is that the ride is themed and licensed to the film, not the animations. If you want to start showing cartoons in the queueline, you'd likely need a different license... and same for the alternative theme song.

[Zanstabar]

​The issue with both of your suggestions is that the ride is themed and licensed to the film, not the animations. If you want to start showing cartoons in the queueline, you'd likely need a different license... and same for the alternative theme song.

​Yeah. It's either gonna be 100% Film or 100% Cartoon. No way they could do both on the same ride properly.

[razza1987]

Reading someone say this ride is now 13 years old I feel so old lol 

[Santa07]

Well

I rode scooby doo today, and it was amazing, I haven't seen the ride like this for years.

As soon as I left the station, I realised something was different. There was nearly no light, except for the lights on the animatronics and theming. Usually you can easily see the track going under the swinging axes, but today I couldn't see anything but the axes, and the camera flash was pretty blinding, unlike what I had experienced in the past. Then when I got to the top of the elevator... wow. The whole disco room was covered in fog, you could barely see the track infront of you. There were lasers flashing all over the room. They really have brought this back to life. It was so amazing seeing all the fog and lights, it made a great difference to the ride. MW seem to be stepping back up it seems.