VRTP Renewals

[BNErider]

Everytime they implement new revenue streams that affect everybody - be it paid parking, peak lockouts etc. - there is going to be a certain amount of time it takes for the public's perception to change. No matter how well they explain it, the first ones to offer a "worse value" product will always look like the bad guys.

[pushbutton]

Absolutely agree re: the night events. Originally - they were only available on the Gold pass which made it worth the upgrade... then they cheapened the gold pass and began giving it away.

I share Richard's sentiments regarding their previous failed attempt at lockout days. As far as I was concerned, the lockout period was clearly spelled out for me when I purchased a pass that year. I couldn't believe it when they backflipped on it in the middle of peak season.

Disney has 'tiered' lockouts - different days are available to you depending on what pass you purchase - pay more, get more - simple as that.

I do... when an annual pass costs the same or less than a single day ticket, and they also give you a single day ticket when you renew, who in their right mind would buy a single day pass? (obvious tourist exceptions). If it's going to be a similar price to a day ticket, it needs to be restricted by postcode or something.

I recently went to Ocean Park and inadvertently bought 'HK Resident' tickets from a 7/Eleven. I realised my mistake before I got to the gate and had the tickets exchanged at the ticket window - it only cost about HK$25 more (+/- A$5) and I was fine with it. I didn't attempt to use them at the gate so I have no idea whether I would have been asked to prove residency or not.

The way I see it -

• Regular day ticket price remains the same
• Short term passes (the 14 day combo tickets etc) remain the same
• Standard VIP should be around $100, but limited to SE QLD postcodes and subject to lockout dates at Easter, Christmas and most of January
• The same ticket should be about $110-120 for people outside those postcodes (which is still excellent value)
• Gold should be up around $150 - with no lockout dates
• Night events (and they need to specify Carnivale, as well as WC and FN) should be an optional upgrade to your Gold pass for say another $50
• Discovery Passport should sit at around $250, include everything the upgraded Gold ticket has, plus Food and Merch discounts, and special seasonal offers (eg: BOGOF at Rick's in March or BTGOF at AOS in August)

I don't believe they should make the 'night upgrade' part of a wider deal - people may buy the upgrade for other things (such as no lockouts) which then entitles them to 3 night events which they may or may not attend - making it hard to account for attendance at those night events - ie: there may be 100,000 people entitled to attend Carnivale - but 30,000 of them may just decide 'not to go'.

As mentioned - they'll probably take a hit in the first year as people rail against the steeper pricing, but then it becomes the norm. No longer will we wait with bated breath towards the end of the financial year to see what price point they're going with for next year... it'll be the same offer each year, with maybe a few extra sweeteners for those renewing an existing pass.

We will.

I'd like to say that they couldn't introduce it these days given how long we've had free parking - but Westfield has proven you can do it. People won't stop coming just because they have to pay for parking - although nearby businesses may get a little upset when half the guests park over the highway... If they DO go in that direction - they need to consider what other parks have done with their paid parking - and offer premium services as part of the deal - Valet or VIP parking that offers you a park closer to the gate for a little extra. In our time in the states we paid for that at Universal and it was worth it.

IF (and I really hope we're only being VERY hypothetical here) they ever were to introduce paid parking, I wouldn't mind as much provided there was yet another pass upgrade available which included unlimited parking.

That said, if they simply charged reasonable, sensible prices for entry then there would never be any need to consider it, and I sincerely hope we're not giving them ideas they could use against us here!

Everytime they implement new revenue streams that affect everybody - be it paid parking, peak lockouts etc. - there is going to be a certain amount of time it takes for the public's perception to change. No matter how well they explain it, the first ones to offer a "worse value" product will always look like the bad guys.

There's a simple solution to that. The year before they put the pass prices up, they open a brand new, really impressive family dark ride. One that is fantastic and at least as good as anything you'd find in any theme park in the world.

Then when they do introduce higher priced passes, they can sweeten the deal by promoting it as "Now includes the exciting new ABC ride / experience"!

Edited May 6, 2015 by pushbutton

[Richard]

I do... when an annual pass costs the same or less than a single day ticket, and they also give you a single day ticket when you renew, who in their right mind would buy a single day pass? (obvious tourist exceptions). If it's going to be a similar price to a day ticket, it needs to be restricted by postcode or something.

I have no objections to an annual pass costing the same or less than a single day, particularly because a day ticket is so expensive at our parks. I had a Universal Studios Hollywood pass once because it cost the same as a day ticket. The same year I also had a Six Flags pass that cost marginally more than a day ticket and gave me access to every Six Flags park in the country. It's really not unheard of, and given the inflated day ticket price of our tickets, the actual level of discounting is not drastic.

If a tourist -- or even a local planning a one-off visit -- is buying an annual pass instead of a day ticket, what is the likelihood that they'll use the pass to the point where it negatively impacts the company's balance sheet? Pretty low. There's no fair way of making more money from tourists than locals... again unless they had peak/off-peak passes that meant that tourists in the peak do pay more, just like they do for accommodation, flights, etc.

The figure I'd really like to see is average number of visits per pass. I would guess that despite the many families who look like they're just there to get their money's worth (cheap refill drink bottle in hand, kids that look barely excited to be at a theme park, lunch in a cooler in the car), the average person is using it 2-3 times total and probably dropping $20-30 each visit on food and merch.

As for throwing in the bring-a-friend deal, I suspect they're really banking on getting as many of these people as possible to upgrade to their own while they're there with friends who have the pass. Not to mention it's the lowest period of the year, so giving the gate away is probably not going to have much of an impact or cost to the parks' operations, and it'll surely boost F&B/merch revenue.

I think the economics is there for cheap passes, I just think they're missing a huge opportunity without peak restrictions.

[pushbutton]

If it were up to me it would be something like:

Single day entry = $45 and Family day entry (2 adults 2 kids / 1 adult 3 kids) = $95

One week unlimited entry to all 3 parks = $100

Annual pass to one 1 park = $100 (upgrades available to convert to either of the below options = $20 more than the price difference)

Annual pass to all 3 parks = $300 (can be purchased any time and validity starts on day of purchase)

Annual pass upgrade to include night events = $50 per selected night event (maximum price $450 with all 3 night events).

Annual pass upgrade to include unlimited buffet lunches = $200

All annual passes would enable the holder to use lockers at Wet & Wild for a $2 fee plus $10 refundable deposit each day.

As an additional incentive to get the most expensive $450 pass, it would entitle the holder to 15% off all food, drink, and souvenir purchases, 15% off Australian Outback Spectacular tickets, and 15% off ride photos, fast track tickets, and special experiences such as Sea World helicopters and cruises, interactions with animals, and behind the scenes tours etc.

Edited May 6, 2015 by pushbutton

[iwerks]

Yeah, they must be able to justify the economics, but it just seems like VRTP is going for market share - get in early before Dreamworld.

2-3 times the price of a day ticket seems about right for a season pass.

[BNErider]

^^

Problem is, people are short-sighted. Plus they're probably getting sick of the parks as well.

It's a lot easier to spend *only* $45 x 2 than buy a pass worth $300. Plus, they're currently getting sub-$100 yearly passes. $300 is too big of a jump.

The only way to justify higher yearly passes is to keep the day entry prices inflated for the time being.

Just my 2c.

EDIT: I remember paying $160 for *just* a Movie World pass when I was at school. Those days are gone, people won't spend that much for *one* park anymore. It's a shame. I'd prefer quality over price any day.

Edited May 6, 2015 by ash.1111

[pushbutton]

Coming from Adelaide has given me a very different perspective than someone who's lived here all their lives I suppose.

In Adelaide, the closest thing they have to theme parks is the Royal Show, which is only one week a year and very expensive as you have to pay around $20 for entry, then pay anywhere between $8 and $20 for each ride you go on. Considering it's just one "park", and realistically most people only go once a year, that's in stark contrast to what we have here in Queensland (which also includes Ekka of course).

Other than that, the only permanent things that remotely resemble a sort of theme park style attraction are:

- The Beachouse which is really an amusement arcade with a few simple waterslides, and you pay per ride / game, and

- Greenhills Adventure Park, which is a somewhat run-down park with mini-golf, golf, archery, canoes and pedalos, and a maze. Plus there's go-karts and rock climbing if you're willing to pay extra once you're in. Entry costs $35 for a day entry, or $100 or an annual pass.

The point I'm making is that maybe a lot of Queenslanders don't really appreciate quite how lucky they are to have such cheap and easy access to so many incredible fun things to do! Hence they may not appreciate that an annual pass to 3 theme parks is worth a lot more than $75!

Edited May 6, 2015 by pushbutton

[BNErider]

^ Oh yes! We're very lucky. Too lucky.

Park enthusiasts are happy to pay good money for quality. A lot of people (locals) though would prefer a cheap Sunday out instead (and their benchmark is currently $79 per year for 3 parks).

[pushbutton]

They could make a small start by dropping the "buy 3 get 1 free" on VIP passes. It's insane, and I doubt it achieves anything much for the parks.

[themagician]

From VRTP perspective they should make the prices more expensive as then their profit would be greater and they may be able to add more attractions, or improve current attractions. But from a general publics perspective, they won't pay higher prices now. VRTP set the bar by making them $99, if they increased the price now, their sales would probably reduce and Dreamworld's would probably increase if they didn't increase their prices. I would say that most people would want value for money. If they increased the prices, people would question and expect a lot more. That's just my opinion.

[iwerks]

They should raise their ticket prices sky high and have a coupon day for everyone else. ?

[pushbutton]

They should raise their ticket prices sky high and have a coupon day for everyone else.

What? That makes no sense to me.

[BigKev]

Does anyone know how the park attendances have fluctuated over the years of various pricing?

[iwerks]

What? That makes no sense to me.

Sorry, Jurassic Park reference.

But it would be interesting to have a really exclusive park, like a Sea World Discovery Cove type thing, or maybe like the one Eric Cartman had.

[pushbutton]

Sorry, Jurassic Park reference.

But it would be interesting to have a really exclusive park, like a Sea World Discovery Cove type thing, or maybe like the one Eric Cartman had.

Ahh. Now I see! I'll have to re-watch Jurassic Park so I can really appreciate that.

[iwerks]

^ Yah,

Coupon Day = Jurassic Park.

Talking Moose, Wagon Queen Family Truckster = National Lampoon's Vacation

Theme Park Terrorism, Roller Coaster Bunting = Rollercoaster the Movie

Roller coaster falling apart = Final Destination 3 (or GL?)

And back on topic..

VRTP are certainly getting a bit of flack on their Facebook advertising for their bungling of the renewal process.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Donald Gennaro: And we can charge anything we want, 2,000 a day, 10,000 a day, and people will pay it. And then there's the merchandise...

John Hammond: Donald, Donald... This park was not built to cater only for the super-rich. Everyone in the world has the right to enjoy these animals.

Donald Gennaro: Sure, they will. Well, we'll have a, a coupon day or something.

https://youtu.be/pP5CdRiY8Ak

Edited May 7, 2015 by AlexB

[Theme Park Girl]

See all you people previously saying you would happily pay $200-$300 a pass for the theme parks obviously don't have families to cover.

It's great and all if you only have to pay for 1 pass for yourself, but imagine having to cover 2 x adults and 2 x children ie. the average family. It adds up pretty fast.

Obviously this is what the theme parks have in mind too, given they all strive to be a family orientated environment. Hence the "cheap" prices per head for annual passes.

EDIT: I remember paying $160 for *just* a Movie World pass when I was at school. Those days are gone, people won't spend that much for *one* park anymore. It's a shame. I'd prefer quality over price any day.

Same. I bought my first Movieworld year pass back in 1995 for $150, which was at a special half price deal. Yes, half price! The full price was $300, for exclusive entry to the one park only.

In saying that though, I think the current annual pass prices are great, I love that they are so affordable. Especially when you have multiple ones to buy for family entry. I probably wouldn't bother if I was expected to fork out close to a grand to do so, which is what it would have been if the original pass prices were still around today.

It just shits me when people have the nerve to jump on Facebook and complain that the theme park annual passes are *still* too expensive, or that it's "unfair" that you don't get a full year out of the price tag if you buy them at diff times of the year - people were whinging in this manner at Dreamworld when they were advertising annual passes in Feb that expire Xmas Eve (this year).

Heck, my passes have paid for themselves 100x over already just within a couple of months of use lol. I don't understand how they can complain when they are already getting such a cheap deal to begin with :/

[BNErider]

^ That's a good point. At the end of the day, I see a lot of room for improvement at all of the parks. I'm an avid believer in 'you get what you pay for'. That's why I believe it's a good move to start charing MORE for entry, not less.

I think the parks' "buy 3, get 1 free" promotion helps families a lot, too.

[iwerks]

See all you people previously saying you would happily pay $200-$300 a pass for the theme parks obviously don't have families to cover.

For a season that's not an unreasonable amount to ask. I have spent $400-$600 on passes and one day entry tickets to Adventure World for the last couple of years.

Think about how much you would spend if you paid an individual entry price every time you went to a park.

Those soccer moms on Facebook kill me every time they complain.

[downunder]

I just renewed with the $75 option, it made the most sense for me personally as I will make a minimum of two park visits, and I'm only likely to do the Halloween event, which I pay for anyway because I'd only do the Ultimate Tour option.

The as-yet-unknown upgrade option I'll consider on it's merits and whether I can benefit from it when they actually disclose it.

IMO the way have done this whole thing is ordinary and a highly unsatisfactory customer experience. VRTP have really gone from the Disney of Australian Theme Parks to sub Six Flags in the last few years.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I understand the issues that surround having to buy tickets for multiple persons within a family - however I don't see that that justifies keeping the price as low as it is - the arguments made for the passes to 'be more expensive' are just as valid whether you're a single or a family.

Yeah ok - for a family to buy 4 passes, increasing the price is going to have a big impact - $400 changing to $800 is a big jump - however that is where the tiers (as i've suggested previously) would come in. Perhaps the family can opt for a cheaper tier, which includes lockout dates for example to keep the price low.

Also as stated previously - the first year would be a bit of 'bill shock' so to speak - and it may mean you don't have a pass this year - but if the parks stick to the pricing model, you'll have an idea of what it will cost - and you'll save up if you really want to get passes for the whole family.

Considering an average family trip to the movies (for ~2 hours of entertainment) costs somewhere around $100 once you buy 4 tickets at around $15, and at least two combo drinkpopcorns at around $10-15 too - I don't think a $100 pass, which gets you 364 days of admission to multi-million dollar attractions is priced appropriately.

Consider the fact that a person visiting Australia who goes to the park for a SINGLE DAY pays almost as much as a VIP passholder does for 0.27% of the time in park (and these are the people most likely to spend big in park on food, experiences and souvenirs).

Pass pricing should be reasonable - but I don't think a "basic" annual pass membership (with blockouts, no discounts, no night events) would be unreasonably priced if it were ~$50 more expensive than a day ticket - it's then a good 'upsell' option for the park to upgrade your ticket to an annual pass for only 'a little more'.

[Theme Park Girl]

Considering an average family trip to the movies (for ~2 hours of entertainment) costs somewhere around $100 once you buy 4 tickets at around $15, and at least two combo drinkpopcorns at around $10-15 too - I don't think a $100 pass, which gets you 364 days of admission to multi-million dollar attractions is priced appropriately.

It was only $8 per head for the movies last time we visited. They have deals as well

But yeah I do understand the point you're trying to make, Alex. I'm sure VRTP know what they are doing, though. They would be strategically thinking this all through and following up with whats best long term for the park, so they would have to be making the costs up elsewhere for having such cheap VIP pass deals.

Speaking of which, I just renewed our 2013 passes this morning after finding out that they backdate a couple of years. A little over $300 for a family of four, plus the 4x free single tickets thrown in. Bonus First time ever we have held annual passes for both VRTP & Dreamworld simultaneously, so the fam is pretty stoked Hoping to sneak in a visit somewhere to either Movieworld or Seaworld over the weekend between hubby & I's work commitments....

[Flea]

See I personally don't think there is much long term vision or strategic planning going on. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the introduction of the super cheap passes was a knee jerk to the GFC. Of course once you discount so heavily it's hard to justify to the public increasing the price, unless there are significant new attractions or gradually by utilising the tiered system Alex suggested.

Obviously we are the 0.1% actually complaining about cheaper things and if their model of a cheaper gate is working for them why change it now.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

First time ever we have held annual passes for both VRTP & Dreamworld simultaneously, so the fam is pretty stoked

So previously, you've budgeted by choosing one park franchise or the other, rather than holding passes to both franchises simultaneously...

Assuming the DW passes still have some time left on them (because DWs passes usually offer expiry dates other than 30 June) couldn't a family stagger their purchases if they wished to do this?

I appreciate you can see where i'm coming from and have said as much - and I also appreciate that paying ~$1000 for passes in one hit is a big cost to a family budget... but it doesn't sway me from the argument that the prices should be higher - ~$1000 for a year's entertainment for the whole family seems like a great deal.