Green Lantern incident at MW

[rappa]

Ah and there's the media sensationalism we know and love.

Edited March 16, 2015 by djrappa

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I don't think it has anything to do with the maturity level.

1. They have never been on it so they fill no connection.
2. We only have a few parks so if we don’t talk about it else do we talk about.
3. The parks cause us to speculate on most things because they do not give us any information. (If we didn’t speculate on things we would never get to the bottom of things. As you know in the states most of the attractions are released sometimes years ahead they even have walkthroughs going on and big press releases while we see a sprinkler been moved around and it’s the next big thing).

But I do think it goes over the top sometimes but if we didn’t I would only have to come to this site once a year.

Actually, I'm pretty sure quite a few TPR members have been on GL. I don't know the specific ride states of each member who has, but I would suggest there are some that have.

If you actually go through this thread, and take out all of the posts that are people taking the piss, predicting how others will respond in similar fashion to the previous Buzzsaw discussion, those referred to in those predictions responding to those predictions, posts speculating about whether things have happened on not when the thread already said that it did... i reckon this thread would be halved in size... and most of that i'd put down to maturity.

You make a good point 2 - we're in a much smaller world than TPR is, but point three I don't think is relevant - given TPR has the same info we have - yet nobody is speculating and everyone is happy to wait for the official determination as to the cause.

Edit: as an aside, I went back to page 1 and started 'multi-quoting' the comments that actually contributed meaningfully to the thread. Of course, my view is subjective, so you may get different results, but if you take out sarcastic, joking, uneducated, inflammatory comments that add nothing else to the discussion, and you then take out all of those who replied and responded to those comments without adding anything further except to shut down the original comment, I get about 13 posts out of 25 on page one alone that actually contributed meaningfully... so my comment above about the thread being halved - i would say is about spot on.

Edited March 16, 2015 by AlexB

[downunder196]

Is that where there could be a potential issue with the wheel assemblies? To me they look basically identical to those on other El Locos but considering GL's trains are double the size they could be under increased stress? That turn where it stopped is probably the most forceful section of tract in terms of wheel stress too I would have thought.

[New display name]

Actually, I'm pretty sure quite a few TPR members have been on GL. I don't know the specific ride states of each member who has, but I would suggest there are some that have.

If you actually go through this thread, and take out all of the posts that are people taking the piss, predicting how others will respond in similar fashion to the previous Buzzsaw discussion, those referred to in those predictions responding to those predictions, posts speculating about whether things have happened on not when the thread already said that it did... i reckon this thread would be halved in size... and most of that i'd put down to maturity.

You make a good point 2 - we're in a much smaller world than TPR is, but point three I don't think is relevant - given TPR has the same info we have - yet nobody is speculating and everyone is happy to wait for the official determination as to the cause.

Edit: as an aside, I went back to page 1 and started 'multi-quoting' the comments that actually contributed meaningfully to the thread. Of course, my view is subjective, so you may get different results, but if you take out sarcastic, joking, uneducated, inflammatory comments that add nothing else to the discussion, and you then take out all of those who replied and responded to those comments without adding anything further except to shut down the original comment, I get about 13 posts out of 25 on page one alone that actually contributed meaningfully... so my comment above about the thread being halved - i would say is about spot on.

I think a lot of comments are stupid but I’m not going to waste my time pulling these people upon it because it’s always the same people.

I don’t know how many TPR members have been on it but considering a lot of the people on that site would be from America I would say it very few have been on it. It has not been around long enough and in general Americans do not travel that much to Australia.

Looking at US exit site last year 601,325 travelled to the Oceania area. That is 0.0018% of the USA population has come to the area. I don’t know how many TPR there are but how many there are divide that by that number. Very big chance that the 15 people talking have never been here.

Also there was speculation (^I guess the four pins that hold the side friction and upstop wheels snapped and the bottom part of the wheel assembly fell off. It's hard to tell, if only the man's arm can move a little...)

Does not sound like this. “we'll have to wait until the investigation concludes before we find out what happened.... ok we'll wait"”

I tried to send this to you as a message but it’s says you can’t receive so I place it here. You have a right to reply and please do but I will not continue with this so I don’t derail the topic.

[Flea]

Absolutely zero to do with maturity. Everything to do with geographical location. As a direct comparison, have a look at TPR's SFMM thread around when the Ninja incident occurred. Pages and pages of speculation and analysis. We had a thread with a few replies on the incident. When something as serious as this occurs in our own backyard of course there is going to be more discussion than that on an overseas site.

[WCE87]

A little bit off topic, but would Movieworld change the maintenance dates for Superman now that Green Lantern will be down also?

[rappa]

Given it's preventative maintenance quite possibly not. At a time when people are naturally going to be questioning your maintenance regime you probably don't want to go postponing scheduled maintenance just from a PR standpoint.

[DWP]

Just coming back from Movie World now and the damaged train had been removed from the track and saw a couple of workers throughout the day on and around the tracks but not as much activity as I'd thought.

As an aside it really shows the limited nature of rides at MW now with GL and Batwing down which essentially leaves 4 rides for adults to use (not counting JL as ain't much of a ride IMO) and from about 2:30 to near closing time Scooby was down as well which left SE,AA and WWF and inflated those queues (well not WWF) and combine that with the horribly slow load and unload times made a somewhat quiet day busier than it needed to be.

Anyway I'll get off my soapbox and stop whinging now ?

[Brad2912]

Channel 9 news just interviewed a rider, who said there was a load scraping noise like metal on metal before an immediate stop and tilt.

The report also stated one rider suffered broken ribs and a punctured lung

[iwerks]

I find it odd that no one was filming on their iphones or cameras at the time. I wonder if there's footage with at least a recording of the sound.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I tried to send this to you as a message but it’s says you can’t receive so I place it here. You have a right to reply and please do but I will not continue with this so I don’t derail the topic.

Thanks Skeet. I'd based my views solely on the topic at hand. After reading Flea's response regarding Ninja (i'd forgotten about that), i'm very inclined to agree with you.

(Naysayers should note this has nothing to do with Flea being an admin, and everything to do with a very valid point made - nothing more.

Channel 9 news just interviewed a rider, who said there was a load scraping noise like metal on metal before an immediate stop and tilt.

The report also stated one rider suffered broken ribs and a punctured lung

Understanding that the rescue has to be made safely - but a punctured lung would have required immediate treatment. 3 hours stuck up on the ride makes me inclined to think this is an exaggeration.

I am reasonably familiar with first aid in an emergency incident.

A person with a pneumothorax condition (collapsed lung) will be very short of breath. A puncture, coupled with a broken rib is also extremely painful. If this person was complaining of these sorts of symptoms, I have absolutely no doubt that paramedics would have been taken up to them immediately, and supplemental oxygen would have been administered. In the absence of a stable situation, they could still have placed an Oxyviva on the evac platform, and passed a mask and hose over to the person, even if they were the on the far right.

Additionally, the green whistle could also have been administered for the pain. Paramedics would have been able to monitor his condition from the evac platform effectively.

Unless this occurred, and none of the media outlets managed to capture it (which would have been the highlight of the event) - then I call bullshit.

Broken rib i'll buy - some people can get them and keep on with their daily life for some time without anything untoward happening (other than the pain) - but a punctured lung is bullshit.

I find it odd that no one was filming on their iphones or cameras at the time. I wonder if there's footage with at least a recording of the sound.

You can bet that in this day and age - if someone had anything, media outlets would probably have it by now - conclusion - no such recording exists.

Edited March 16, 2015 by AlexB

[mba2012]

If anyone knows, how much information would investigators have to go off in terms of sensor data and not just the actual train? How much information is recorded by the rides computer systems and would there be separate computers recording information on each train recording measurements from all the sensors?

[Flea]

Not sure if S&S use the same sensors but here's an interesting read on Gerstlauer's. Most notable is the transponders fitted on the cars - perhaps if Mark Shaw is reading he can fill us in on exactly what they transpond

Edited March 16, 2015 by Flea

[rappa]

Most coaster control systems don't have any contact with the trains/carts outside of the station.

What they do is monitor their movements, speeds, etc between sensors placed throughout the course. By knowing the time between passing those sensors, it then knows the speed the cars are traveling at and can choose to brake them or not to achieve the correct speed.

[Brad2912]

As great as it is having Mark commenting in the forum, I'd say this is one thread he'll not be sharing his thoughts on.

[Noxegon]

As an aside it really shows the limited nature of rides at MW now with GL and Batwing down which essentially leaves 4 rides for adults to use (not counting JL as ain't much of a ride IMO) and from about 2:30 to near closing time Scooby was down as well which left SE,AA and WWF and inflated those queues (well not WWF) and combine that with the horribly slow load and unload times made a somewhat quiet day busier than it needed to be.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on Justice League – I thought it was excellent – but you do have a point about the number of rides in the park.

IMHO Warner is only a full day park because the operations are so poor – if the rides were run properly you could do everything and a few repeats in a couple of hours.

Is that where there could be a potential issue with the wheel assemblies? To me they look basically identical to those on other El Locos but considering GL's trains are double the size they could be under increased stress? That turn where it stopped is probably the most forceful section of tract in terms of wheel stress too I would have thought.

That's an interesting thought. It's worth calling out that the Steel Dragon 2000 accident, which was fairly similar, occurred on a train subject to a lot more stress than the rest of the coasters of that type. Hopefully the root cause of this event will be published.

4BC Radio just spoke to Robb Alvey the guy in charge of Theme Park Review, saying that these kind of accidents happen all the time at theme parks

I can only assume that Robb hadn't read much about the accident at the time he was quoted.

Coasters wheels do fail quite regularly, but they don't generally end up on the ground next to the ride.

When something as serious as this occurs in our own backyard of course there is going to be more discussion than that on an overseas site.

This.

[GoGoBoy]

I agree that having the GL out of action does highlight the limited nature of the park. I am heading to the GC with a friend (who's not a theme park enthusiast) next week for the first time in ages. We both wanted to go to MW but he did mention that he felt there wasn't much to do at MW. This is definitely a perception problem for the park and one I'm surprised they have never properly addressed. Their tendency to replace rides rather than build additional ones is a mistake. Anyway, we now won't be visiting the park as GL was one of the main rides we wanted to go on as neither of us have ridden it.

[lolman123]

Got any idea where ya might be headin instead.

Edited March 16, 2015 by lolman123

[westical]

(not counting JL as ain't much of a ride IMO)

:angry2: :angry2: :angry2: :angry2: :angry2: :angry2:

ps. :angry is broken

[Theme Park Girl]

Got any idea where ya might be headin instead.

Dreamworld would be the next most logical choice IMO... plenty of rides on offer, and the Buzzsaw is due to reopen at the end of this week

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Not sure if S&S use the same sensors but here's an interesting read on Gerstlauer's. Most notable is the transponders fitted on the cars - perhaps if Mark Shaw is reading he can fill us in on exactly what they transpond

Transponders usually only identify themselves - usually by serial number. We use them in motorsport events - a sensor beam or 'loop' is set across the track at designated marker points. Just like a toll-etag, when they hit the beam, it prompts them to transmit a signal with their identity. All the 'data management' for an e-tag isn't associated with the tag itself - all it does is say who it is. Of course, when you can guarantee the positioning of the sensor (which in coasters you can) you don't need a beam - just a sensor positioned at the right point on the track.

It's a modern version of the way the Bush Beast interacted with it's PLCs. There were PLCs that detected the presence of a train (or not), and there were separate sensors that detected WHICH train it was - i'm pretty sure that was simply by having the sensor point on the train on a different side (not sure which side had which, but for example - yellow train left, red train right), and this is how the ride control system knew which train was which.

In the case of Gertlauer - using multiple trains would either require multiple sensor points, or (as is the case) just using a transponder at the same point on the car, and one sensor to read them is sufficient - this tells the ride computer which train is where. If you were to get a transponder data output, it would only be the serial number of the transponder, which is programmed into the ride control system to reflect which train it is. When a transponder dies (the batteries don't last forever) they can simply replace the transponder and reprogram the ride control to accept the new serial number as the same train.

[Theme Park Girl]

Forgive me for sounding naive, but exactly how reputable is this S&S Worldwide coaster company?

I was just reading about them on wikipedia, and they sound relatively new - founded in 1994. Their "oldest" El Loco coaster currently operating is one in the US, built in 2008? I have a friend who is studying engineering, and we were discussing this yesterday... he suspects that having a wide car on such a narrow track would create up to 4 times the amount of force stress, and in his opinion, the "cheap arse ride" carts aren't designed properly to continually withstand such pressure.

As opposed to being a MW maintenance or up-keeping issue, is it possible that there is a major S&S coaster design flaw here that could be present in all the El Loco coasters but hasn't been an issue up until now?

This is all pure speculation on my part obviously, but I also find it odd that Village Roadshow has previously bought its coasters from older, reputable companies who make high quality designs (Intamin, Vekoma, Mack etc.) and are the main thrill ride suppliers for the other GC theme parks... but yet this time round, they have purchased this one through someone completely different, and a lot newer to the market.

My suspicion is whether they made the mistake of buying a cheaper coaster through a possibly more inferior manufacturer in order to save on park costs? Could this incident be the consequence of that?

Thoughts?

PS. As I have said, this is my speculation/theory and not intending to make any accusations here toward anyone, so please correct me if I am wrong

Edited March 17, 2015 by OceanGirl

[New display name]

This father and daughter have been on every channel and in the paper I have some question and thoughts that someone might help me with.

Gold Coast Movie World’s Green Lantern passenger tell of her horror as roller-coaster malfunctions

At their Eagle Heights Home Mr David Williams and his daughter Fallon Williams who were on the Movie World rollercoaster that derailed.

ONE of the six passengers stuck for three hours on Movie World’s Green Lantern ride on Sunday says she was terrified staff would start it again, sending them plunging to the ground.

Fallon Williams, 30, of Beenleigh yesterday told of her horror while stranded 20 metres above the ground.

She was on the ride with her father David, sister Rachelle, 22 and Rachelle’s partner Alistair Balfe.

The loudspeaker message kept relaying saying, ‘Please be patient, the ride will continue shortly’ but we kept yelling out to them, ‘Don’t let the ride continue’ but the hydraulics kept going and we were so worried that if they started it up, it could actually dislodge us because it was so unstable,” she said.

(What would the hydraulics they are talking about be? I know the ride was not going to be restated and in there panic state they might of thought because of the auto message it was going to happen. Side question to this one if the ride for some stupid reason was started would the ride remember that a car had not returned to a point on the track?

Fallon said she could not bear the pain of bruised ribs and felt unsettled as the gravity of the situation began to sink in.

“I’m really sore,” she said.

“I woke up really short of breath, with a sharp stabbing pain and neck pain as well from whiplash, as it was pretty forceful and quite scary.

“I freaked out and had no idea what was going on.

David was left with cracked ribs, a partially collapsed lung and ongoing pain and had to take a day off work yesterday to recover.

“I was in hospital until after 1am to have all the scans and checks and the doctors told me I have broken and cracked ribs and a partially collapsed lung,” he said.

“I couldn’t sleep because of the pain and now that I think about it, it was pretty scary.”

Fallon said she had been most anxious about a 13-year-old girl in the back row sitting in the most unstable part of the cart which was hanging over the edge of the track.

“I thank God there was someone little on the edge,” she said.

“If it was someone bigger it might not have ended well.

“She was so brave. She said her tummy hurt but she remained really calm.

“My dad said to us, ‘You realise the reason they were telling us not move is because it could have tipped’.

(Or could they have been just taking precautions?)

“They had to get the little girl and her mum off first in case the cart overbalanced.

“The firies didn’t let on how bad it was in front of us but I was right near them and could see them whispering to each other.

“They just kept making jokes to keep us calm.

“What else could they do?”

David said that when the ride started he could feel it was going faster than usual then suddenly it jolted forward, losing a wheel.

(How would it be possible for the ride to go faster than it should have when it has no drive but relies on gravity? How much allowance would ride manufacture have for extra stresses? Surly these things are not built to the bare min and if there was a speed increases it could not be much more)

“There was a thud like having a flat tyre going over a speed bump — then we suddenly stopped,” he said.

“We didn’t know how bad it was at the time.

“Movie World staff told us it had got stuck but it wasn’t just stuck.

“We had come off the tracks.

“One of the firies told us how bad it was once we got to the ground. We were told when we got down that we could have fallen.”

(Not a question but unless there was nothing there at all what would a firies know about a coaster? It would be no difference me going up there and taken a look and telling them it’s going to go)

“This sort of thing just shouldn’t happen,” David said.

“It’s just wrong.”

David said Movie World could try to “sugar-coat it, but it doesn’t change what happened”.

(Movie World have no choice but to sugar-coat it but if they are at fault I can’t see why they wouldn’t be made to pay)

If it was me and I was in that much pain I don’t think I would be on every news outlet straight away.

Edited March 17, 2015 by skeetafly

[Slick]

Forgive me for sounding naive, but exactly how reputable is this S&S Worldwide coaster company?

Very. They're renowned for their space shot towers like Batwing and have extensive ride design, parts and manufacturing experience thanks to their CCI and Arrow acquisitions and their partnership with Sansei.

[Theme Park Girl]

Very. They're renowned for their space shot towers like Batwing and have extensive ride design, parts and manufacturing experience thanks to their CCI and Arrow acquisitions and their partnership with Sansei.

But in comparison to some of these other ride manufacturers, some whom have been around since as early as the 1700's? They are very new to the market. That's the only reason I wonder...