Wonderland Sydney 2.0

[XxMrYoshixX]

^that may be true, but given the heritage listings for the site, nothing would happen to the site if it were to shut down. i'm not sure if the developer that operates the park has actually 'paid' for the land or whether it's some sort of trust... but LPS shouldn't be the yardstick for other parks.

I read in the Luna Park history book (ask Jobe what the title is, because I forgot the title) that the site can only be used for recreational and amusement purposes so they could do something with the site if it shuts, like demolish everything and completely rebuild Luna Park from the ground up.

[DisneyDoll]

As Alex mentioned in the comment you reposted above, Luna Park is HERITAGE LISTED. Nothing short of the old buildings accidently burning to the ground would enable them to build it from the ground up again.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Thanks DD. *facepalm*

[GoGoBoy]

It just makes you realise even the major commercial news sites can't be trusted (except perhaps Fairfax, who notably did not run this story). So many outlets covered it, and I bet not one of them bothered to look into the details of the 'international consortium' known as 'Fox Petroleum', or 'Urban Estate Developments' -- the two companies supposedly behind it. Any decent journo would ask how serious this proposal is and what the chances are that these companies can legitimately pull this off and fund a $1 BILLION development.

But leaving this aside, it seems utterly bizarre to me that if a developer actually did have access to that level of funding, they'd choose to develop a theme park based on the defunct and now entirely dated Wonderland theme park -- which even when it was still alive was actually nothing special in comparison to other parks around Australia and the world. There is this strange obsession with the park, but with $1 bil you'd surely want to aim higher than an old boomerang coaster and the rather average bush beast. And going by the renderings, a chair swing, ferris wheel and arcade make up the park's other 'major' attractions. Just weird, and entirely inconceivable. How can anyone actually give this any credence??

Edited September 24, 2015 by GoGoBoy

[Ranger Dude]

It just makes you realise even the major commercial news sites can't be trusted (except perhaps Fairfax, who notably did not run this story). So many outlets covered it, and I bet not one of them bothered to look into the details of the 'international consortium' known as 'Fox Petroleum', or 'Urban Estate Developments' -- the two companies supposedly behind it. Any decent journo would ask how serious this proposal is and what the chances are that these companies can legitimately pull this off and fund a $1 BILLION development.

But leaving this aside, it seems utterly bizarre to me that if a developer actually did have access to that level of funding, they'd choose to develop a theme park based on the defunct and now entirely dated Wonderland theme park -- which even when it was still alive was actually nothing special in comparison to other parks around Australia and the world. There is this strange obsession with the park, but with $1 bil you'd surely want to aim higher than an old boomerang coaster and the rather average bush beast. And going by the renderings, a chair swing, ferris wheel and arcade make up the park's other 'major' attractions. Just weird, and entirely inconceivable. How can anyone actually give this any credence??

Yep. My thoughts exactly

[taronga]

I watched this news on 7 & 9 last week. They both mentioned that a site was being considered around Badgerys Creek (I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned it).

With the government confirming Badgerys Creek as the new Western Sydney airport site, I'd imagine anything being built around it would have height restrictions on coasters, tower rides, hotels & fireworks etc..

This article: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/south-west/scouting-for-land-and-big-plans-for-sydneys-wonderland-theme-park-return/story-fngr8hxh-1227538637601 also confirms his intention to have dark rides.

[DJKostya]

It's interesting that everyone on here is so against this guy and his idea. Sure his visuals aren't great. Sure his backer looks a bit dodgy BUT he has an idea and now has some serious funding to back it.

From my uni days studying theme parks the general consensus for construction of a park is the investment vs. first year visitors rule. You spend $X per anticipated first year visitor. If this guy spends $50AU per anticipated first year visitor (For ease of data sake lets take DWs 2014 attendance of 744,000) his initial investment would only have to be $37.2m. With his investment of $1b he could invest up to $1344 per anticipated first year visitor.

I've attached a really interesting document done by the University of Central Florida on the subject.

People also seem to be missing a big part of his development idea which is that it is not just a theme park. He's building multiple facilities including restaurants, sporting venues etc.

I don't know the guy from a bar of soap but I know that some of you do know him from his days working at Wonderland over a decade ago. People change. A decade ago I was in a completely different career after finishing a completely different university degree to anything I have ever worked in.

So whether he actually gets this to happen, lets wait and see. He has some serious funding behind him now and no company is ever going to invest $1b unless they are going to make money back. That's basic economics.

themepark.pdf

[Brad2912]

Haha..

$33m might get you the land, clearing/site prep and maybe some council approval/infrastructure fees. 

 

Welcome to Wonderland, please bring a seat and a packed lunch as you enjoy watching the grass grow. 

 

I think the $1b is a furfy..

[GoGoBoy]

DJKostya - Do you really believe a company has given him $1 billion? It just seems highly improbable, in my personal opinion. Wet'n'Wild Sydney, developed by Village Roadshow, was a bit over $100 million. This is ten times that, supposedly. A $1 billion theme park proposal from Village or Disney or any of the other major conglomerates would be believable, obviously. But can you name ONE project the proponent of this project has developed previously that comes anywhere near this scale? I can't find anything. Where is the list of completed projects? Where is the client list? You don't just develop a major theme park with no or little experience, and you're even less likely to secure $1 billion in funding, even if you had decent, not incredibly dodgy, renderings. Buying and selling a few houses doesn't come close.

Edited September 25, 2015 by GoGoBoy

[TheMousiah]

This project is very real and I am the professional guy moving his life to the Sydney area to bring it to fruition. It includes two theme parks, two on-site themed resorts, all-weather water park facilities and a shopping and entertainment complex and is being master planned as a multi-day resort with immersive themed entertainment areas.  This is way beyond the original Wonderland and, while we certainly will have elements of the original theme park in our "DNA," this is no mere regional theme park and definitely NOT an attempt to resurrect a venue that never made a profit in its history. The existing website pre-dates everyone involved in the current project and is awaiting certain major announcements before it is replaced by one that really reflects the Western Sydney Theme Park resort precinct as it will truly be.  We are currently working with multiple master plans while working on our land acquisition and other prerequisites. Much of what is happening behind the scenes can't be shared with the public at this early point, but we will be making more announcements once we can do so.   

[Santa07]

A random newb with one post...

Not gonna believe it until I have proper proof.

[webslave]

5 hours ago, TheMousiah said:

This project is very real and I am the professional guy moving his life to the Sydney area to bring it to fruition. It includes two theme parks, two on-site themed resorts, all-weather water park facilities and a shopping and entertainment complex and is being master planned as a multi-day resort with immersive themed entertainment areas.  This is way beyond the original Wonderland and, while we certainly will have elements of the original theme park in our "DNA," this is no mere regional theme park and definitely NOT an attempt to resurrect a venue that never made a profit in its history. The existing website pre-dates everyone involved in the current project and is awaiting certain major announcements before it is replaced by one that really reflects the Western Sydney Theme Park resort precinct as it will truly be.  We are currently working with multiple master plans while working on our land acquisition and other prerequisites. Much of what is happening behind the scenes can't be shared with the public at this early point, but we will be making more announcements once we can do so.   

So what would you say that you joined these forums to tell us?

[iwerks]

Random newb who can spell and write - I'm in! Welcome The Mousiah. We hope you have a pleasant stay in Sydney. Good luck with your parks. If you want any opinions or suggestions, we'll be right here.

[TheMousiah]

Hardly a "random newbie"- I am the GM of the actual project and have been an active professional in the themed entertainment industry for over 27 years.  Only joined and posted because I accidentally stumbled upon this thread and the negative comments based on misinformation ticked me off enough for me to feel a need to reply.  Sorry that the actual nature of master planning a massive and expensive theme park destination resort involves non- disclosure agreements and a need to not blab every detail to the general public- so there are obvious limits to what can be shared.  Main point is that this project is very, very real and there are already a number of themed entertainment professionals from various disciplines working on it.  If you are truly park fans and not just into being naysayers then have some patience- it will be rewarded.  By the way, if you do spend any time at all in the real industry newsgroups then you already know exactly who I am and just how very genuine this project is. 

[New display name]

I'm Justin Bieber, Good to meet you.  Jokes aside we get people coming to this site all the time claiming they have the best next thing about to happen and it never happens.  If you owned the land to build this on then you might sound more convincing. 

 Why it is that village can decide they are going to put a new water park in Sydney and do it relatively quickly.  If village can do it and you say you have the funds, then why not stop talking about it and build the thing?

[TheMousiah]

If you bothered to actually read my post it would be obvious that we have multiple land options to pick from- and of way larger acreage than what Village had to deal with, and with way larger infrastructure issues to go with them.  We had to await the funding before we could close on our land options, and still have to await approval processes.  Thus, multiple versions of the master plan to match each land option. This isn't a water park, nor a regional theme park- this a complete themed destination resort with multiple parks- it is much like designing and building a city in many respects.  

I am sixteen hours behind most of you- still based in Florida- and despite insomnia allowing me some time to kill, I am unlikely to keep replying to every thing here. Just had stumbled upon this thread and felt a need to set somethings right.  By the way, there are multiple investors and there are multiple feasibility studies- including one for each possible land site and allowing for different scenarios.  We simply don't share such things with non-stake holders, frankly- so for those who wish to just be negative, enjoy yourselves.  The professionals at work on the real project will still be working on it regardless what you decide to assert.

 

[joz]

Welcome!  I've just got a quick question: When all we've got to go  on are crappy renders that look worse than roller coaster tycoon 3, why shouldn't people be sceptical?  If you follow this industry, you'll know how often things get announced that never come to fruition for one reason or another.  And here is an announcement from someone who doesn't have a track record for the most ambitious theme park project in Australia, with a very amateur looking concept art.  I mean forgive us for being skeptical but in the public domain there isn't much to go on that makes this seem legit.  

[New display name]

15 minutes ago, TheMousiah said:

If you bothered to actually read my post it would be obvious that we have multiple land options to pick from- and of way larger acreage than what Village had to deal with, and with way larger infrastructure issues to go with them.  We had to await the funding before we could close on our land options, and still have to await approval processes.  Thus, multiple versions of the master plan to match each land option. This isn't a water park, nor a regional theme park- this a complete themed destination resort with multiple parks- it is much like designing and building a city in many respects.  

I am sixteen hours behind most of you- still based in Florida- and despite insomnia allowing me some time to kill, I am unlikely to keep replying to every thing here. Just had stumbled upon this thread and felt a need to set somethings right.  By the way, there are multiple investors and there are multiple feasibility studies- including one for each possible land site and allowing for different scenarios.  We simply don't share such things with non-stake holders, frankly- so for those who wish to just be negative, enjoy yourselves.  The professionals at work on the real project will still be working on it regardless what you decide to assert.

 

Yea you keep telling yourself that.  Has Urban Estate Developments Pty Ltd ever developed anything in its life?  You know there’s a company called Urban Developments PTY LTD.  Did you just add to their name?

Edited December 4, 2015 by skeetafly

[TheMousiah]

Thanks for the welcome!

I hate the crappy art and the website- and have made that clear to Ammar from day one!

The real concept art will be made public and it is clearly of another level. When the project went from an idea to a reality, the playing field changed. There are way too many variables at play right now and, once we are free to legally do so, there will be much more to share with the media and the public. Hopefully soon!  When Ammar first set out to "bring back Wonderland," he was not trying for anything as ambitious as what the Western Sydney Theme Park precinct has become. We'll still honor Wonderland's brief history and there will be plenty of nods to the past- but, overall, this is a new project. The principals involved in the actual development of the two parks and the destination resort are all industry professionals with a great deal of experience globally.  Many of the details of the attractions and the parks remain proprietary by definition- and we can't say too much more until the land deal we really want is closed and ours. 

So back to work for me and the team- though we are eager to share our work as it becomes possible for us to do so. The website will undergo a complete overhaul once its new and accurate content is cleared as legal to share. I'm used to having to deal with NDA's for these projects and yes, it is frustrating to not be able to share our work with everyone as fast as we would like to. But the payoff in the long-term is worth the wait. 

[webslave]

Would a shrewd businessman come in here and snark his potential customers/advocates?  I must have missed that chapter in my studies.

I completely get NDA's.  They are nothing new.  But, you usually need to pitch before you even get someone interested enough to sign one.  What's the pitch?

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

As others have mentioned, there is some scepticism from a random new poster who makes big claims. We know you can't reveal what is part of the NDA - what we're looking for is some tangible substance that confirms you are legitimate. Surely there is something you could do that doesn't breach NDA to prove you are involved in something as you say?

You've said something already (which I won't reveal as yet) that I know not to be true from my own close involvement with the park both in the past and the present... Whether by ignorance, misinformation, or because you are not who you claim to be I don't know - but i'm going to be open minded as we've seen first hand how valuable having a senior level manager on the boards here can be (Adventure World's Mark Shaw).

If you are legit - Welcome. Wonderland was a big part of many of our lives, and we cannot wait to see what you guys have in store... look forward to what you CAN offer when you do. In the meantime, forgive those who regard you with caution - too many times we have had folks who cannot support their claims, and mislead or outright deceive the fans who frequent this board.

[Wil_i_am_not]

Welcome TheMousiah! Please ask Ammar if we could get an RMC hybrid of the Bush Beast 

[New display name]

36 minutes ago, AlexB said:

As others have mentioned, there is some scepticism from a random new poster who makes big claims. We know you can't reveal what is part of the NDA - what we're looking for is some tangible substance that confirms you are legitimate. Surely there is something you could do that doesn't breach NDA to prove you are involved in something as you say?

You've said something already (which I won't reveal as yet) that I know not to be true from my own close involvement with the park both in the past and the present... Whether by ignorance, misinformation, or because you are not who you claim to be I don't know - but i'm going to be open minded as we've seen first hand how valuable having a senior level manager on the boards here can be (Adventure World's Mark Shaw).

If you are legit - Welcome. Wonderland was a big part of many of our lives, and we cannot wait to see what you guys have in store... look forward to what you CAN offer when you do. In the meantime, forgive those who regard you with caution - too many times we have had folks who cannot support their claims, and mislead or outright deceive the fans who frequent this board.

It's alright AlexB I don't want to be forgiven.  Disney comes to Australia and says it can't make money on a park here but somehow a person who probably sold ice-cream for 9 years, tells us from his school kid drawings a company is giving him 1 billion dollars.

[Reanimated35]

I'm all for new parks in Australia, not that I care much for Sydney. Whether this guy is legit or not, wouldn't it make more sense to pull down the crappy website and replace it with something that actually looks professional and appears to have some backing? 

Take these two for example - 

http://southbankresidences.com/

http://www.stcollinslane.com/

Both give bugger all info, especially the first one, but they look professional and legitimate. 

[iwerks]

David certainly seems to have lots of experience. 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-bakas-040a7016

I hope the two Western Sydney parks offer more of a full day experience than some of the Gold Coast parks at the moment.