Fright Night

[Gazza]

With the issue of alchol being sold, I thought you werent allowed to go on rides after drinking. Can someone clear this up?

[Obstructure]

Your not supposed to drive when you're drunk either, but people still do. It isn't as if Dreamworld breath test everyone going onto a ride, but I guess if they felt you were really drunk or on drugs they could stop you, for your own safety and to avoid a potential problem. They sell alcohol in the park so people would consume alcohol and go on rides.

[Richard]

To my knowledge, Dreamworld doesn't have any policy which disallows riding after drinking. After all, what's wrong with having a beer in the afternoon to cool off then hitting some more rides? Very common situation too. There's a slighty difference between drink driving and "drink coastering". One of them isn't responsible for hundreds of deaths every year in Australia and the other is. I think that's actually a fairly inappropriate comparison, but whatever. Who's going to get drunk at a theme park, and even then, what's riding a coaster going to do aisde from make a bit of a mess in the worst situation?

[Obstructure]

I might ask someone the next time I am in there (hopefully tomorrow). This is only a guess but you would be permitted to ride but I think if you are totally intoxicated (and its obvious) then they could refuse because safety of the guests, the rides and themselves comes first, so if there was a chance they could be a hazard they could say no.

[Daniel]

It's impossible to enforce anyway. Blow into the tube until I say stop thanks Sir. Yeah sure. Wonderland sells beer in the restaurant anyway! When boofheads show up at Utopia (New Years at Wally World when they had it), 90% of the inbreds that come are off the face on some type of substance. Reminds me of a story. Did Zodiac for a while, New Years 2002. Transylvania side is up spinning away like a gimp, when I hear the sound of water or something hitting the ground. I turn around to see something pouring from one of the Gondolas. When we bring it down, it's still running out mind you, all the people had their feet up on the seats. The smell was almost unbareable, good thing for the strong stomach. These people, off their dials, had spewed their guts up, filled the bottom of the gondola, it was at least 2 cm deep and it was running out from under the door. All of them. The big bag of fairy floss each of them were eating wouldn't have contributed that much either These 4 people had been throwing their guts up. They all got out and one guy threw up again just for good measure, just incase the smell wasn't bad enough. :eek: The moral of the story: Don't take illegal substances and drink ridiculous amounts of alcohol (if there's such a thing) and ferris wheel.

[joz]

Its only the really drunk ones you'd keep off rides, and you can tell if someone's really drunk. All parks (except WnW) sell alcohol, and staff are for the most park trained in responsible service of alcohol.

[Richard]

And now for something completely different... Back to Fright Night. Today at Dreamworld, someone said they were at Fright Night. This person said they queued for Giant Drop for one hour and 45 minutes, at which point everyone in the queue was told that the ride is closing and they all had to go home. I couldn't care less about all the other stuff that was reported to have gone on on the night about a lack of rides or too many people. This is one thing that is a true act of complete and utter disgrace. I fully accept closing the queue for a ride off some time before the park closes s that the ride will close on time or not too late. One thing that you should never ever do is ask (well, tell) people who have been queuing, for hours no less, that the ride is closing and they won't be able to ride. That is throwing basic customer service out the window. That just isn't cricket.

[seaboi]

I was one of these people. We had been in the line for an hour and half and were almost about to get on the GD when we were told that the ride is now closed. It was disgraceful. The line behind us was cut off at about 9.15, however nothing was said to us about the possiblity of not being able to get on. We made a complaint to guest services about this and they couldnt give a stuff. Came up with 'these things happen'. This is not good enough, not even a 'sorry you feel like that'. I have lost alot of respect for DW management if that is how they are going to treat their paying guests.

[Obstructure]

What would you like them to do about it then? Give you a free pass because you didn't get on? I thought it was all pretty clear, they aren't permitted to run the rides after 10pm, they can't precisely count up how many people would make it before then, they did their best. The rules were there, you should've had a fair idea how long it was going to take, and you wouldn't have been the first person to complain that night. In the defense of the ride attendents, I heard all sorts of abuse being hurled at security and employees, except just because they didn't say sorry to you then they're bad people? They are people as well, they aren't made of stone, perhaps giving them a fair go is in order here too. If people were abusing you, calling you every name under the sun and threatening you, then how would that change your mood? Could you honestly still smile and apologise to every single person? Imagine how many people would've complained to them when they were putting them on the ride. That is not enjoyable. I wouldn't go blaming the rides people for this one because they did their best. If you saw how big the line was, it just was not possible for one of the operators to stop loading people, slowing the line down even more, and counting every single person to try and calculate who would make it before 10pm. Its not possible to accurately do that. Sure people were annoyed, but I don't see any of you being understanding of the situation Dreamworld put the staff in. Like always there is a side to each story and in all seriousness, I am sure there will be more opportunities seeing this one got such a huge response.

[joz]

No, that's not good enough. Simple as that. Its not up to the guest to think "well, the park is not allowed to run the park after 10 so I probably won't get on." Nearly a third of the night spent queuing for nothing, which is nothing short of disgraceful. Free return passes for all those rejected is the very least the park should have done. BTW, you'll notice that Seaboi's last comment was, "I have lost allot of respect for DW management" so I don't really know what your going on about Obstructure

[rappa]

Nope Richard and Joz are 100% correct! No we're not slagging the ops themselves, they only follow orders...its management that are to blame here. GD has been open for many years now, they know how long it takes to work through a que so there is no excuse to mess it up that much. And if they were a couple cycles out and had to go to 10:10pm there wouldn't have been a problem. As for you asking if they are supposed to smile and be polite no matter what... Simple answer is YES. Unfortunately they are in the hospitality industry and the customer is always right. They are paid to be nice to guests and ensure they have a good time. Its the same as me, I may have client that is a complete arsehole and drives me insane but I still must be professional and polite to them no matter what I really think...

[Obstructure]

"We had been in the line for an hour and half and were almost about to get on the GD when we were told that the ride is now closed. It was disgraceful. The line behind us was cut off at about 9.15, however nothing was said to us about the possiblity of not being able to get on." That is directed at the ride attendents, not DW management. I agree that lining up for so long was not enjoyable and not worth the money in some cases, particularly the 1hr 30min one. If they cut the lineup off at 9.15 then surely you would think hang on a second maybe I might not make it seeing it closes off at 10. Giving free return passes to those rejected? Now you've opened up a whole new can of worms. First of all the night cost between $10-$20 on admission. You give return passes out, they are worth $58, just for missing out on a ride which evidently had an enormous line up. Then there is a scenario of people saying they lined up for ages, which is a lie, and receiving a return pass. Then what about the honest people that missed out, or lined up for ages (which in actual fact is the majority of the crowd), do they deserve a refund? I mean if those people get refunds for lining up then everyone else should too. I know if I heard about some people lining up for over an hour got refunds then I would be demanding my money back too, because then that is fair. In my opinion, it is bad luck for those people who only just missed out after such a long line up, that is life, but they do deserve some kind of compensation because they were hard done by. Not a free return pass, or necessarily a refund, but something else. Yes - perhaps smiling and what not is supposed to happen, but that is a load. If you get personal attacks, you are hurt, and what are you going to do? Suck up to the people abusing you. There is no polite way of saying sorry you've lined up for 1 1/2 hours, but we can't go any longer. If they went to 10.10, that is breaking the rules dj, and where exactly do u draw the line? You've got to say no time sometime, what then happens to the people at 10.13 or 10.15, do you give another 5 minutes just for them as well? 10 o'clock is fine, draw the line somewhere.

[joz]

No surly you'd think "I'm in line, and am going to get on" why would you not think that? I've been in a line after its been cut off, and never doubted getting a ride. This isn't mechanical failure, this is the park saying "You know what, we've changed our mind, you've just wasted 45mins, go away and don't expect anything out of it". How you can seriously justify that is a mystery. They could have easily said, "We've been told to close the ride, but hang around here and we'll get you some tickets too come back". You'd still be a bit pissed, but nothing like what it must have been. Dreamworld (and yourself) seriously don't know much about customer service. Free return tickets would cost the park nothing, but would have kept its customers happy. I don't know what your other thing you'd give them is. I'll tell you a story, Warner Village closed the parks for safety reasons due to really bad weather earlier in the year, and despite the announcements at the gates of the parks that there is no compensation available for bad weather, everyone in the parks got a free return ticket. The parks didn't even close till mid afternoon, but everyone got a full day back at the park. Not a 'come back this time a different day' pass, another full day in the parks. Its customer service, and its what this industry is all about.

[mikrowave]

I had the exact same thing happen on a wet day at SFMM (yeah its in a different country, but its still relevant to the thread) - it started raining in the afternoon, causing the closure of many rides. So we all got a full days ticket to come back at another time. I'd also go into the story of riding Riddlers Revenge in the pouring rain, but it brings back memories of how painful it was having rain hit your face in the front row

[rappa]

Dude my sympathies... I rode Goliath in the rain...THAT IS PAIN! Was like razor blades on the face, was actualy pretty funny with the whole train trying desperately to block their faces LOL

[Richard]

I got Goliath with a light sprinkle at one stage. That was enough for me, I'd hate for it to be any more Obstructure, it is ENTIRELY Dreamworld's responsibility and fault that guests were turned away. It is not their fault that the park must close at 10pm because of noise laws or whatever, but it is their responsibility to adhere to said laws. This means that when there is a lengthy queue for the ride they should close off the queue at a certain point so that EVERYONE who is spending their time in the queue gets to ride. It is not, and never has been at any properly run theme park, the guest's responsibility to judge whether they will be able to ride if they queue. The point that there was likely no one there telling guests that there is a chance they will not get to ride if they queue now sort of throws absolutely any defence out the window. I didn't think I could get any more annoyed about this incident, but Obstructure, the fact that you're actually trying to defend Dreamworld is pretty warped. Furthermore, I see absolutely no comments in this thread that refer to any Dreamworld operators or attendants. Everything I see is pointing fingers solely at management. A return pass is the very least Dreamworld could have done in this situation. The fact that such a thing should never have happened in the first place is reason enough. A free return pass costs the park nothing, and guarantees them further revenue in future which they otherwise would never get, in the form of food and souvenirs. They say one negative opinion is the same as ten positive ones, and that's exactly true. Let's hope that operations is one area that the new CEO looks at, one which has needed an all-out assault for a good number of years. Tony Braxton-Smith did some tremendous things for the park in terms of balancing out market shares and getting the park's value up, but I hope now that most things with the park are sound, efficiency and overall operations can be looked at, and a breath of fresh air is always good for that.

[Ian]

I need to say something too. After 10 years of traveling to International Parks and working at a major one over here I need to say This is DW major downfall the guys above are all correct DW customer service is like a donkey's ass at times. Where DW has more Attractions and Rides then the other parks which is a postive its the staffing side which is appauling. they run 1 op on most rides the staff are in no way as friendly as most at WVTP and WL. I feel the management need to get rid of this costcutting and put more staff on if you go to most parks in the world there are more ops, and cyclone is perfect proof of this. I sometimes wait longer in the queue at DW then I do at Disneyland. also Fright Night sold out at 10:30 am so Dw must of known the day before that they were getting near 3000 so they should have put more staff on.

[Obstructure]

OK, you have all made good points and I respect them, but they are not feasible solutions. 1. I am sure everyone has been in a line after the closing time and still gotten a ride, that is because when the cut off happens, they've still got a long time until it is against the laws to run the ride. Fright Night was a different situation, being that the ride attendents were guessing who would make it - not 'everyone before this point will definately ride.' Once it hits 10 o'clock, thats it, not a minute over otherwise the attendents will also jeopardise their jobs, and it isn't as if the Giant Drop can hide and say, OK we will go a couple of rides over for you, EVERYONE can see the ride because of its height. 2. Would it be worth it for Dreamworld to give possibly up to 3500 return passes? This potentially means that they would lose any profits they have made for the night with those passes, which is unlikely to be made up when those people return. Even so, I am sure there could've been anywhere up to 500-1000 people lodging a complaint, or cut off from a line early, or even stuck in a line at 10pm and didn't get a ride. That is still a lot of return passes. 3. Dreamworld were maxed out with the staff and they even opened more attractions then were advertised. After chatting with a few of them apparently there was going to be less then there was and they decided to open more up to try and cater for the demand. You can put more staff on but that isn't going to make the ride go any faster. I agree with you all about the organisation and how it was grossly oversold, and those ride attendents worked themselves to the bone trying to get people through as quickly as they could, only to cop abuse for people not getting rides, or lining up for hours. I would recommend next time perhaps capping it at 2000 tickets, possibly 1500, selling them for $20, making it 6pm-9pm so that anyone lined up at 9 when the rides close off still have time to go through, and still keeping open all of the rides they had. But hey, I'm not CEO, but if i was that would be my call. Just curious, those people that went - how many rides did you get on? Which ones were they?

[joz]

1. If DW knew that not everyone was going to get a ride, the people should have been told. 2. I didn't know there were 3,500 people in line for GD when it closed. In any case, the answers yes. Don't you remember when they used to give free return passes to who ever wanted them? 500-1000 people lodging a complaint, well wouldn't that tell you that people aren't happy and there's a good reason for it? This isn't the one off crazy guy having a cry over something that only they could possibly care about, this is half the people in the park dissatisfied. Having that many people go out into the world to spread bad press can't be beneficial. 3. What do you mean that more staff won't make the rides (queue) go faster? Have you seen the difference in load times between Cyclone (not well staffed) and Lethal Weapon (well staffed)? Again, this isn't bashing staff, its about staffing levels and how management makes life difficult when it could be much easier. Making similar events in the future 6-9 sounds like a fair enough idea. Having that many people in the park (of the thrill ride demographic) its a bit of a laugh to think that they'd get everyone on by 10 since they don't get everyone on till 5.20 on a normal day (I'm sure even DW is thinking "What were we thinking with having it going till 10?"). Seriously, nearly every ride's queue must have been closed off by 9.30 -9.45 anyway?

[seaboi]

I did not get to ride one ride. We got there on time and headed for TOT. Lined up and got to the very end and then it started raining. Fair call, its not there fault. When then headed for GD. The que for this was up on to the ramp that goes to goldrush country. So we gave that a miss and headed to Lara Croft. Got through that and headed to Cyclone and the que was right down the bottom of the que area. We were not going to wait in that que, already knowing the capacity of that ride, so we headed back to GD to try our luck there. When we qued there we looked at the signs that say '1 hour & 15min wait from this point' and it gave us enough time to ride it. Infact it gave us 15min spare. So we were responsible and looked for the signage. Its not our fault that the signage is either wrong or that the ride was not running as fast as it should have in terms of capacity.

[Bussy]

I don't know if the laws are different here in NSW or if Wonderland just didn't care, but just about every Saturday night the major rides didn't close until well after 10pm. For example last Saturday Space Probe didn't do its last ride until 11pm, at 10pm there were still 3 tunnels full. Wonderlands policy was that the ride lines stayed opened until closing time and then they were cut, anyone waiting before that time was assured of a ride before it closed, anyone arriving after that time was turned away. I think it’s absolutely disgraceful that Dreamworld would treat it's customers like that. Obstructure, how can giving out return passes not be advantageous for Dreamworld? It means that they will have however many people coming back into the park and buying food, drink and merchandise throughout the visit. If that’s not good for the profit margin I don't know what is. You have also completely lost your marbles if you think that guests at a theme park are expected to be able to judge how long a wait is for a ride, for most of us here it's not too difficult as we visit them regularly but for people who don't go that often what chance do they have? Richard had it right about the negative comments being more influential than the positive ones. And why would Dreamworld want to deal with 500, 1000 or 1500 complaints? I think not. "The Bus is now leaving for Elmhurst Service Basin, Victoria"

[Obstructure]

I am sorry to hear you didn't even manage to get on one ride - that honestly is sad, and I can see why you would be upset. The TOT problem cannot be helped because you can't control the weather. The point I am trying to make here is that they can only estimate with people getting a ride seeing it is by a certain time it must close, not like the normal day. Do you think that cutting off even more people would've helped the problem? So they would plan to be closed by 9.45 instead of 10? What happens then when theres no line up at 9.45 (if they've guessed right), do they open back up again letting 15 minutes worth of people on? Would that be fair to other people who have just lined up for over an hour, then some people line up for 5 minutes right behind them? The best solution is make it earlier so the rides close at about 9, so there is still 1 hour to spare to get everyone through by 10. I don't remember when Dreamworld used to give out free passes to whoever wanted them, I do remember when people paying admission for a full day receive free passes when they have a valid reason, and the line ups being too long in my opinion is not a valid reason, it is bad luck and it cannot be helped. As for adding more staff, what do you propose they do? I mean the GD cannot go any faster then it does, most times you are sitting with your harness on waiting for the gondola to clip in before you can go up. Wipeout had 2 people working there on the night, didn't even bother with TOT because it was raining and I wasn't going to waste time there incase it rained. More staff isn't the answer (unless it means opening up Gold Rush), selling less tickets perhaps is the answer, though I don't think I am in any real position to complain seeing I got a few rides in during the night, and more than likely got my $10 worth. As for getting money from food, beverage and souvineers, most people were locals and I doubt that souvineers would be on the agenda, but yes, they may make money out of those people making a return visit. No, the public isn't responsible for judging how long the line will take, but if you are in a line that goes way out of the allocated area, down a bridge etc, then there is a good chance it is not going to work. Just wanted to throw into the equation here que jumpers - maybe you should blame them for the line taking so long. While I lined up at Wipeout, I would have seen at least 20 people jump the line within my sight, in front of me. Friends letting other friends in. If that was standard across other rides, no wonder it took so long, and MOST people got a genuine lack of rides.

[Richard]

The point I am trying to make here is that they can only estimate with people getting a ride seeing it is by a certain time it must close, not like the normal day.

And the point everyone else is trying to make that if they did estimate, then they were off by about two hours. By the sounds of things, no "estimate" was made, no one was there telling people that they wouldn't get to ride if they started queueing now, no one roped off the queue line.

I don't remember when Dreamworld used to give out free passes to whoever wanted them, I do remember when people paying admission for a full day receive free passes when they have a valid reason, and the line ups being too long in my opinion is not a valid reason, it is bad luck and it cannot be helped.

Paying money to queue for a ride, not being told that it will be closing before you get a chance is bad customer service. The bare minimum to do in this situation is, if someone complains, give them a free return pass. You can't argue that Dreamworld was at all in the right with how they treated the guests. The proper thing to do would be to give everyone who was in the queue for any rides when the park closed a return ticket, because Dreamworld faulted by not advising of ride closing times, shutting off queues etc.

As for adding more staff, what do you propose they do?

Unless Cyclone had at least three operators, if not four, then there weren't enough. I won't bring up Giant Drop's needlessly long ride cycle that doubles the ride time, or the fact that the wave on Wipeout wasn't being used as it was designed, or that I doubt Cyclone ever had guests waiting at the airgates before the current cycle had returned.

As for getting money from food, beverage and souvineers, most people were locals and I doubt that souvineers would be on the agenda, but yes, they may make money out of those people making a return visit.

Don't forget that this money, maybe only $10 per returned guest, is money that the park would not get at all otherwise. It's still a win-win situation for the park, because these extra guests create no real additional overhead as it is a negligible percentage of guests in any given day, but bring in extra profits.

No, the public isn't responsible for judging how long the line will take, but if you are in a line that goes way out of the allocated area, down a bridge etc, then there is a good chance it is not going to work.

If there's a good chance, then Dreamworld should shut the queue off, or at least put an attendant at the queue entrance advising guests that it is unlikely that they will get to ride.

Just wanted to throw into the equation here que jumpers - maybe you should blame them for the line taking so long.

Great, now Dreamworld isn't responsible for queue jumping! Reality check: that's also Dreamworld's responsibility, and maybe they do need more staff to keep check on this.

[Obstructure]

"We had been in the line for an hour and half and were almost about to get on the GD when we were told that the ride is now closed. It was disgraceful. The line behind us was cut off at about 9.15, however nothing was said to us about the possiblity of not being able to get on." The line on the GD WAS cut off. In fact all of the rides notified the public that there was no more people to come into line. TOT had a security guard at the walkway, Tomb Raider had a security guard at the end of the line, Bumper cars had 2 people on so one was notifying the public and their que was closed, GD's que line was closed, as was cyclones, Wipeout was notifying people over the PA as well as staff making an estimate. The public was being told the situation, people were complaining, but they were getting warning, and with the amount of people they had to cut the line off with, it is fair that they could be 10-15minutes out on their guess, which results in perhaps 4 rides or up to 100 or so people on those rides, missing out. Do you honestly believe it is feasible for Dreamworld to employ people to watch out for people jumping the lines? That is rediculous. Generally if somebody jumps the que, they should tell the ride operator when they can, because there is so much going on that the employees can't watch the line the entire time.

[Richard]

You say that they could be 10-15 minutes out on their guess, but the reality is they were 90-120 minutes out on their guess for Giant Drop. You've kind of shot your theory in the foot there. Actually, it's fairly common practice in the international scene to hire people who watch over the lines. Quite simply, if there's a queue jumping problem, then it needs to be fixed. It's not ridiculous.