Fright Night

[Obstructure]

Did you read their quote? They said they cut the line off behind them at 9.15 and when they were almost there they said no more people, because it was 10 o'clock. They weren't 90-120minutes out on their guess, it was more like 10-15 minutes by the sounds of things. I didn't shoot myself in the footy at all, it's simple read and comprehend.

[Richard]

OK, you're right, my mistake. Still, I stand by everything else I said, and I don't see you coming back with any counter-arguments for anything, aside from "You didn't read it properly". If that's the only thing you can come up with (and it's a fair point you did make) then really, your argument is a bit weak.

[Bussy]

Richard has basically said what I was going to say. But I will add something to that, as an ex-ride operator at Wonderland it was company policy that everyone lining up before to closing time, be it 5pm or 10pm it didn't matter, got a ride no matter how long it took. Case in point, last Saturday when Space Probe didn't do it's last cycle until 11pm and Demon at 10:45pm despite the park 'closing' at 10pm. No matter what argument you put up it was bad customer relations for Dreamworld and if had happened to me I would tell all my friends not to bother going there for a while. "The Bus is now leaving for Bad Dog Gully, NSW"

[joz]

Ok a few more things that haven't been commented on: 1. Nowhere was he blaming DW for closing ToT when it rained. 2. While he did complain about the queues, his major gripe was with queuing then not getting a ride. Also, since when was the fact that someone queued for a ride for 45 mins then getting turned away not a "Valid reason" for a free ticket? A paying customer got screwed pretty hardcore by DW policy. What's the difference if its day or night? 3. I know many people who get one free ticket to go to a park and go halves in another ticket with someone else. Free tickets do attract paying people, without even considering things like F&B or those crappy carnie games that people of Dreamworld's target demographic seem to delight in playing. 4. Again, why should queuing out of the rides allocated area 'not work'? A queue is a queue, and sometimes do go out their allocated area. Sucks when it happens, it doesn't make people any more likely to think "Maybe they won't let me on". 5. I can't believe no ones mentioned word of mouth. Let me tell you, when something bad happens at a park, the right thing to do is move heaven and Earth to make sure that the customer is happy, and nothing bad about the park gets said in the public domain. People left DW with a sour taste in their mouth, and rest assured that all their friends know how poorly DW treated its customers. DW could have kept their reputation intact if they just bit the bullet and gave away a couple of hundred free tickets (which would've cost - without taking into account the extra revenue these guests bring - all of $11,600. When gate taking on a normal day is somewhere around $150,000 ) The park didn't do that and now the parks customer service reputation (which is very important for a park) is getting quite a healthy bashing on here. Also, how would the park be loosing money by giving free return tickets? I can't imagine the people turned away from rides after queuing are keen to come back and pay full price any time soon. About the free pass thing: Remember when DW used to advertise $5 return passes? Well for one or two crazy holiday periods, they gave away free return passes to anyone who presented themselves at guest services asking for one. Question: Why did they rope Tomb Raider's queue off early, I mean its not as if that thing must be closed by 10pm (its not a ride after all). I'm guessing the reason for having to close the rides early is due to its neighbours and noise concerns. If that's the case (which I am 99% sure it is since SW's lack of neighbours have allowed it too run rides till well after 10pm as well as having fireworks after 11) then I don't understand why they also felt that they needed to close the bumper cars queue early. Also a point on the line jumping: It may have been a problem for one night, and maybe the park didn't expect it too be so bad, so didn't staff accordingly. Fair enough. Easy mistake too make, that's one of those things you can only learn from hosting the nights. If these nights become a regular thing, then yes, I would expect the park to staff the queue. When it comes to adding more staff, you've answered your question "What do you propose they do?" Well let me ask you, do you think the 1 ride op (who you've told us too go see when someone cuts the queue) has time too bring the guests to the air gates, load, close restraints, check restraints, dispatch, unload and check for lost property AND deal with trouble makers in the queue? I know it hurts, but you'll just have to face the fact that the park handled the situation wrong.

[Obstructure]

All rides and attractions had to be closed by 10pm, thats just how it is for Dreamworld and yes I am pretty sure it is because of the surrounding area due to noise problems. It sucks and I am sure Dreamworld would've loved to have Fright Night go until perhaps 12 instead of 10, but hey rules are rules. Word of mouth is perhaps a big problem, but in this case, I don't think word of mouth will hurt Dreamworld - perhaps if they ran a similar event, which was advertised the same it would hurt their business. I dare say the vast majority of the crowd were locals who regularly visit Dreamworld, or have been there a number of times to say the least. I believe that they would understand when its busy, well its busy and if you want to go on lots of rides, then you have to come in the off peak times. People complain about que lines at every single theme park, it isn't something that will hurt them. I don't remember a time, ever, that Dreamworld has employed someone who stands at the line specifically watching que jumpers. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this one, but I am pretty sure no one has ever got that job. The closest I have seen is in holiday periods when somebody puts people into groups when they get near the ride, that is it. In my experiences if someone has jumped the que, you tell the operator when you get to the ride, if people around you have seen them as well (even one is enough), that person gets sent to the back of the line, no hesitations. I have said several times as well, it wasn't under staffed on the rides that were opened. They were staffed like they staff for the holiday periods, except the Wipeout wasn't using the wave.

Paying money to queue for a ride, not being told that it will be closing before you get a chance is bad customer service. The bare minimum to do in this situation is, if someone complains, give them a free return pass. You can't argue that Dreamworld was at all in the right with how they treated the guests. The proper thing to do would be to give everyone who was in the queue for any rides when the park closed a return ticket, because Dreamworld faulted by not advising of ride closing times, shutting off queues etc.

I answered that before with they were estimated to make it, however people misjudge in those situations. As for giving anyone who was in the que a free return ticket, you've got yourself there 3500 tickets because everyone could argue they lined up. Guests were advised of the parks closing time, 10pm.

Unless Cyclone had at least three operators, if not four, then there weren't enough. I won't bring up Giant Drop's needlessly long ride cycle that doubles the ride time, or the fact that the wave on Wipeout wasn't being used as it was designed, or that I doubt Cyclone ever had guests waiting at the airgates before the current cycle had returned.

Can't say Cyclone had full staffing because I didn't even bother lining up, though I doubt they would have had 4, probably three though because the other rides were staffed quite well. GD takes time, you can't make it go any faster regardless, and I agree with you, there is a needlessly long ride cycle with that one. The wave was not being used however they had a few people working there. Nobody has said this yet so I thought I would throw in another 10c. Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps the reason for the lines being so enormous could be because the TOT was operating at rare intervals due to the weather? I mean it still went for a while but it takes like 15 people or something each time, and they get them through fairly quickly. That wouldn't have helped the problem at all.

Don't forget that this money, maybe only $10 per returned guest, is money that the park would not get at all otherwise. It's still a win-win situation for the park, because these extra guests create no real additional overhead as it is a negligible percentage of guests in any given day, but bring in extra profits.

Yes that is true, and it may have helped them during the off peak period coming up with revenue, but is it really worth giving them freebies? Think back to the Christmas break. I don't know if any of you ever went in there during this time, but the park was packed, every single day. Now if these people start complaining that they aren't going on rides (in some cases 2 hours + line ups), demanding free tickets, thats going to kill their gate takings. When I went the line ups were worse then Fright Night, yep, WORSE. Then what do they do to resolve these kind of things? Their peak periods, does that mean they have to give free tickets to people if they only get 3 rides in the day because the lines are 2 hours long? I mean $20/ride isn't that great now is it. The difference between giving a free return pass during the day and at Fright Night is as follows: - they have paid $60 for entry, Fright Night was more than likely $10 - During the day you have about 7 hours, maybe more, Fright Night you technically had 3 1/2 hours (seeing Dreamworld actually opened at 6.30 to cater for the high demand), however in reality there was less then this. - they didn't get "screwed hardcore by dw policy" it is not Dreamworld's policy at all, and they didn't get 'screwed hardcore' either because the attendents could only estimate. It isn't as easy as a usual day when they close at 5 and get everyone else through, no matter how long it takes. In this case they shut the line at 9.15 in hope to get the other people through by 10pm. After that, thats it. - If you give one person a free return pass for Fright Night because they said the lines were too long and they didn't get their moneys worth, you've got yourself 3500 free tickets to give out. Imagine how long that will take, add to that people who try and scam it so they get more then one. Then you open up the flood gates for people wanting free tickets time and time again. You get people who play the system, looking for freebies, so they come back again and again for free because the complain about something minor. I agree that the lines were too big, and that they oversold the event, and I have made my own personal recommendations if they were to do it again. I just don't think there was anything Dreamworld could do once the night started, to change the sequence of events to follow. They staffed how they thought, they sold tickets like they thought would be OK, and they followed the rules set to them, they even opened more rides/attractions then they were going to, as well as opening at rides at 6.30 instead of 7.

[Bussy]

You still don't get it do you Obstructure? It was completely and unequivocally Dreamworld's fault for what is a guest relations disaster. It doesn't matter if they paid $60 or $10 they are still paying customers and as such would expect a level of service way beyond what was given. Your point about the Christmas holiday crowds is a load of rubbish. Were people who were in a queue turned away at closing time? If they were the amount of complaints Dreamworld would have had would be unbelievable. What about giving free passes to everyone who has a ticket and when they get the ticket they hand in the old one. Simple huh? "The Bus is now leaving for Getenmellup, Western Australia"

[Obstructure]

What about giving free passes to everyone who has a ticket and when they get the ticket they hand in the old one. Simple huh?

ehhhhhh what?

Your point about the Christmas holiday crowds is a load of rubbish. Were people who were in a queue turned away at closing time? If they were the amount of complaints Dreamworld would have had would be unbelievable.

Uh, well no, they weren't turned away, I never said they were, but what isn't quite sinking in here is that the scenarios are different. During normal time if you are there by 5, or whatever the closing time is, you make it on because there are no restrictions, however at Fright Night, everything had to be off and closed by 10 because of restrictions. That is why people got turned away, not because of poor customer service or rudeness, or poor organisation either, but because of the law.

You still don't get it do you Obstructure? It was completely and unequivocally Dreamworld's fault for what is a guest relations disaster. It doesn't matter if they paid $60 or $10 they are still paying customers and as such would expect a level of service way beyond what was given.

And I suppose you were there, with a checklist grading each employee? You are pointing the finger at the wrong people in this case. The ride attendents were doing what they could, with what they had, and they only followed instructions.

[joz]

No, you don't get it. The park (ie management, GR) should have compensated those guests who, through no fault of their own, queued 45mins for a ride and were without warning refused entry. We know about having to turn guests away at 10, you keep going on about it as if we've missed the point. What me, Rich and everyone else is saying is that: 1 Guests should have been told that they may not get a ride even if they queue. 2 Failing that they should have been compensated for their wasted time. A guest has better things to be doing then standing in a queue. The fact that they didn't do either really doesn't even cut it as poor customer service. In fact its a total disregard for paying guests, simple as that. I don't care if the staff had to estimate the queue, I don't care about what restrictions the park have, what my gripe here is that the people who were adversely affected were shunned, and were given nothing in return.

[Richard]

Your points are becoming so irrelevant. What does people queueing for two hours to get on a ride during the summer have to do with people queuing for the same amount of time at a night event only to be turned away. The thing is, nobody should have had to demand free tickets. I couldn't name too many parks which wouldn't actually initiate by handing out return tickets, before any complaints could be made. Even Six Flags Magic Mountain, notorious for bad customer service, gave us exit passes for Scream!, simply because it had broken down some half hour before we even got there and we popped up to see what the deal was. No, it wasn't return tickets, but it was perfectly fitting given the situation, which is what return tickets are. We're not talking about giving people something equal to the amount they paid for the night or the time that they were queuing. If that were the case, they'd have someone out there with a change belt giving out $6.50 to every guest in the queue. Again, that's totally irrelevant to the purpose of return passes. We're giving these return passes, from a business perspective, not to compensate for the fact that these people missed out on riding after queuing for quite some time, but simply to change these disappointed and angry people to happy, "Hey, they're alright afterall!" people. I find it particularly amazing that now the blame has moved completely from Dreamworld - it wasn't in the least bit their fault - and is now because of the "law".

[Bussy]

ehhhhhh what?

Ok I will explain it simply so that you can understand. When someone goes to make a complaint, ask them for their ticket and exchange it for a return pass.

Uh, well no, they weren't turned away, I never said they were, but what isn't quite sinking in here is that the scenarios are different. During normal time if you are there by 5, or whatever the closing time is, you make it on because there are no restrictions

Why would they complain like you say? Surely they can estimate the queue length. Yes it has sunk in that it is a different scenario and I fully understand the difference. I haven't been to Dreamworld for a number of years now, but from what I remember there wasn't that much development, residential not industrial, around the site. Has that changed?

And I suppose you were there, with a checklist grading each employee? You are pointing the finger at the wrong people in this case. The ride attendants were doing what they could, with what they had, and they only followed instructions.

Where did I ever point the finger at the ride operators? What I said about the level of service was directed at the management not the front line staff. As an ex-ride operator at Wonderland I know exactly how these things happen. The front line staff are the last to hear about a decision about closing, but they cop the most abuse. And before you say "Well that’s Wonderland and Dreamworld is completely different" think again and have a look at where the majority of the operational managers at Wonderland came from. "The Bus is now leaving for Finger And Thumb Islands, Queensland"

[BigMal]

i know this is and old thread but i thought i should just add that Guest Relations has nothing to do with the running of Rides at Dreamworld. It is handled by the Entertianment and Attractions department at Dreamworld. Also adding to your point about giving a free pass to anyone who gets denied from a ride. When i was a ride op myself i had to deny many people from rides for being to short or in the case of thornburies to tall. does that mean they should all get free passes? i was denied myself from riding the Scooby Doo coaster after waiting in the queue for an hour and i was denied when i literally was boarding the ride. i never got a free pass. free passes arent just issued out willy nilly

[joz]

The thing is, it wasn't mechanical failure that turned people away at DW. Nor were guests made aware that queuing may be a waste of time. The guests that were denied on FF were denied because of preventable reason. Guests could have been made aware that the park will close the ride soon (The same way people are made aware about height requirements), and some people may miss out. If this had happened then you could hardly have grounds to complain.

[kennykoala]

Just a quick note on fright night, i was talking to my friend at DW. The reason for so many ppl in the park was Dreamworld were not told by QLD rail how many tickets were sold at the train stations. It is also believed im not sure if this is true, but if u bought ur train fare and a Dreamworld ticket, they were giving free fright night tickets if u bought the train dw entry combo. ( in the week leading to fright night) like i said im not sure, on that last part, but my friend thought that was the case.

[willsy]

Think back to the Christmas break. I don't know if any of you ever went in there during this time, but the park was packed, every single day. Now if these people start complaining that they aren't going on rides (in some cases 2 hours + line ups)

Yeah i was there in the xmas holidays. January. The longest wait i had was 1/2hr for GD. That was on both the days i was there. Cyclone was about 15mins and same with the other rides. I dont see what the problem is at all.

[BigMal]

often during Xmas periods the longest line that is noticeable is Wipeout or ToT. However wipeout lines move quickly with 40 people to a ride. its been worked out that if you were up to the section near the exit door that is 3 rides. so over Xmas periods with a full DH staffing you would only be waiting 20 mins for your ride. over normal periods thats half an hour and during non holiday periods your lucky if you have enough for one ride in the queue.

[Bussy]

i know this is and old thread but i thought i should just add that Guest Relations has nothing to do with the running of Rides at Dreamworld.  It is handled by the Entertianment and Attractions department at Dreamworld.

As an ex-Wonderland ride op I find it very strange that the Entertainment department has anything to do with the running of the rides at Dreamworld. At Wonderland the Entertainment department consisted of the performers for the shows and that’s all they did.

Also adding to your point about giving a free pass to anyone who gets denied from a ride.  When i was a ride op myself i had to deny many people from rides for being to short or in the case of thornburies to tall.  does that mean they should all get free passes?

I think you have misunderstood. No one has suggested that people get a return pass because they have been turned away from a ride for being under or over the height restriction. Those people have no one else to blame for lining up but themselves, if they had read the signs they wouldn't be there.

i was denied myself from riding the Scooby Doo coaster after waiting in the queue for an hour and i was denied when i literally was boarding the ride.  i never got a free pass.

What was the reason for you being turned away? It was probably a mechanical fault and in that case I think the Australian parks should utilise the 'Fast Pass' system used at many North American parks. Basically you get a piece of paper that allows you return to the ride and go on without lining up. This should only be used during peak periods in Australia.

free passes arent just issued out willy nilly

Yes free passes should not be handed out 'willsy nilly' but in this case they should have been. There was no valid reason for what Dreamworld did on this occasion, they should have got everyone who had been in the queue lines that were cut and given them some sort of compensation, in my view in the form of a return pass. "The Bus is now leaving for Return Point, Tasmania"

[BigMal]

the rides are part of the Entertainment and Attractions department. the rides come under the attractions part.

[joz]

Eh, every park has different names for their departments. SW up until recently had a department called Marine Mammel & Entertainment, and the old Food and Merchendise departments are common in the US. Nothing too unusual for one department to do two jobs which are only narrowly related. BigMal: Just on Wipeout, I have to say thats one of the better rides in the park for short queues, although this possibly has something to do with the small queue house, which has the virtue of making the queue seem longer then it really is. Also, for all my other points, read Wonderbuss's post, whose pretty much summed up what I was going to say :-)

[Ian]

If you were turned away from scobby it was either a mechinal fault or you were either too large, too drunk or too pregnant. MW and SW do not turn guest away for any other reason on busy times when the lines are long we stay till everybody in line has ridden. The op will close the ride at 5pm (closing time) and everyone in the line will still get to ride.

[scott]

Yeah,that's right gazza,no booze before rides

[Gazza]

Sorry, I thought the rules of no alcohol before rides would be the same as WnW's no Alcohol rules, but then again swimming kinda different to just walking around.

[scott]

Yeah,that's right Gazza,you can't ride after booze.

[BigMal]

actually there is no real rule about being drunk on rides, its at your own risk, we were made aware that unruly behaviour is not to be tolerated. hell i put a guy with a bad hangover on the wipeout then sent him straight to vortex

[joz]

See I was much nicer to hungover people. You sometimes serve them and I always used to direct them to the double beef burger and fried chicken.

[Gazza]

Dont you have a bacon burger ? We get a lot of early morning hungover people come through, but they end up spewing in the car park. We also seem to find lost of beer cans and bottles.