Doomsday Destroyer - reviews and feedback

[Tim Dasco]

I think this has more to do with the TRRR incident. I think either MW are making changes to the ride as extra safety processions, safe work told them to make changes or MW have decided to go through each ride and do a complete maitenance cheeks IE taking the ride cars apart completely, inspectioning every inch of the track and pieces and so on. Considering what happened at DW I would assume every park (Australia wide) will be ensuring nothing happens like this again.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I don't think they'd have needed to pull the ride system apart at all - unless other rides had the same treatment - which would see half the coast closed for months. Although not recent, the ride is modern enough that that sort of thing is extremely unlikely.

More likely it is something outside of the track and ride cars - probably something building or theming related causing an issue.

[Levithian]

I can imagine that sort of thing (ie, pulling cars apart, track inspections, etc) happens every year anyway. Im kinda wondering just how much maintenance do people think actually happens if they think they can suddenly take an even more indepth look over a ride and find as yet unidentified issues with safety, mechanics, etc. It is like basically saying the maintenance is completely lacking and has missed years worth of defects, breakages, wear, etc, so its basically just a big death trap waiting to derail and kill people.

yeah, ok, the last bit is a bit dramatic, but honestly, I wouldn't get on a ride ever again if I didn't think the ride checks weren't thorough enough that major inspections and rebuilds aren't already done as required. If inspectors had of found a raft of faults with rides that were previously missed, I would have expected them to be contained in statements worksafe made. From the few articles I read, they seemed to pass the rides and commend the already detailed inspections, only noting a few back of house issues, but not anything that could put the public at risk?

[Tim Dasco]

However @Levithian you can never be to safe. You can always do more cheeks, more in-depth and multiple times. Look how in-depth DW are going by having multi level audits, reviews and checking over every piece of equipment at the park multiple times by different people, (Safework, External companies and Dreamworld)

[Levithian]

Im not saying you can't be too safe, what I am saying, is that this is probably one industry that already does most of what people suggest.

you can't really compare movieworld and dreamworld now. Completely different scenarios. For starters, i remember reading that movieworld already had independent auditors planned/checking their park before the incident, and before worksafe people came in. If you were to try to compare them, you would probably want to compare the outcomes following the green lantern accident, vs this one and see if there were any changes to operations. I don't think anything like that was probably made public though because, fortunately, nobody died, so there probably isn't a public inquest made available like what might follow after dreamworlds accident.

Although there is a level of genuine concern in their media statements, you also have to appreciate that it's also worded as a PR exercise with the intention of rebuilding their brand and calming any fears guests might have. How many of the independent audits, contractors, etc are already performed each year, and how many extra have been added since the incident? Like, you could have had a yearly audit planned each year, then had an external auditor check the audit to make sure nothing was missed. So it happens each year anyway but nobody outside of the industry knew about it, so the average person may think they are really going above and beyond, when such stringent tests were already the industry standard. Get what im trying to say?

It's kind of like its not doing the parks justice when you suggest they have probably found things from more stringent testing and inspections, when in reality, operation/inspection standards are already so high that what people suggest they should/are doing is probably the absolute minimum that is performed every year as it is. That's what I am trying to say.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Levithian

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

24 minutes ago, Tim Dasco said:

However @Levithian you can never be to safe. You can always do more cheeks, more in-depth and multiple times. Look how in-depth DW are going by having multi level audits, reviews and checking over every piece of equipment at the park multiple times by different people, (Safework, External companies and Dreamworld)

What a ridiculous statement. You CAN be too safe. When the cost of doing safety checks, or the time it takes to do them outweighs the profit made from running it, or the time it actually operates, it becomes unviable as an attraction, and closes down.

Now - allow me to clarify - if it costs to much to make something safe, it shouldn't operate. I'm not advocating to put costs ahead of guest safety. What i'm saying is when every expert in the field has decided something is safe to operate, imposing additional inspections or checks above this is redundant, wasteful and pointless.

So if there is no such thing as 'too safe' - you might as well shutdown every ride in the world. Stop all transport systems, and walk everywhere you go. Actually - don't walk anywhere - just in case you trip over. Just sit down before you fall down...

The inspection\audit conducted at the parks in the wake of the dreamworld incident was the most thorough across the board inspection our industry has ever seen... and very few issues were identified, and none of those endangered the lives of guests. As I understand it, most of the issues that were identified were a matter of "it was compliant to the standard it was held against at the time it was built, but the audit applied the current local standard to it and it failed that because it was of a much higher standard."

Sure its great to have high standards, but the standard it was built to operated just fine since it was installed, and any defects were identified long before a catastrophic failure (excepting of course GL and TRRR - but in the case of TRRR - nobody could have predicted it would happen, and in the case of GL, all required maintenance checks and audits were done - it was a design fault that nobody could have foreseen.)

By that logic, we should immediately retrofit every ride in the parks with a full perspex rider safety bubble, complete with reinforced titanium alloy, with auto-deploying airbags and crash foam, just in case a plane crashes into the ride.

[webslave]

Alex is right.  Unlike the old cliche we do in fact put a price on a human life every single day.

[Levithian]

You can never be too safe. It's as simple as that. It's in reaction to the previous post.

Where it comes into it is risk analysis. Reducing the chance of failure/incident to such a small degree that it either 1) becomes virtually impossible to calculate/factor/comprehend or, 2) becomes completely cost prohibitive to implement a control above expected/acceptable risk.

It's the primary reason for multiple redundancy systems, sometimes even greater than what something might have been produced with.

[Tim Dasco]

@AlexB I was responding to @Levithian's question saying that they already do enough maitenance cheeks and stuff to ensure the rids are safe. All I am saying is that you can always make stuff safer. Think of the hierarchy of control.

OHS use this for any hazard. Every time at TAFE I do something (Electrical industry) we have to fill out Hazard control sheets. Where we have to identify EVERY possible hazard including tripping over the carpet, back pains, someone crashing their car into the construction site (It has happened to the Masters construction site in Joondalup) So my point is a theme park or even any industry can always make changes to anything to make it more safe. I whole heartedly believe and know theme parks are safe and that TRRR and GL accidents were freak accidents and are not the parks fault. I personally believe that DW with all the work they have been doing in safety at the moment has made it one of the safest parks out there. But my point is that if MW wanted to make more safety improvements. Like what they did at DW with little minor things to change. OHS and people can always find something to change. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I'm aware of how risk assessments are carried out. I do them weekly.

Your hierarchy of control is accurate - but note that the most effective method is to remove the hazard, which in my previous post, would be shutting down the ride entirely.

However the risk assessment needs another tool:

So for example: you could identify a risk of falling out of a roller coaster. risk mitigation would say - add restraints that have redundancies that cannot be removed during operation. Risk is mitigated. Fine.

But then you might suggest that there is a risk of the bolts that hold the restraint onto the car could fail. What is your control measure for this risk? Inspect the bolts. Quite effective, but it doesn't eliminate the risk - which is the most effective. How do you eliminate the risk of the bolts failing? The answer is that you can't. You can overengineer something. You can use way more bolts than are necessary so that if one fails the rest can still bear the load - but you can't ELIMINATE it - which is the most effective mitigation strategy. So what do you do?

As a hypothetical - assume that an OTSR is mounted onto a rollercoaster with 8 bolts. Assume that no other parts (ie: ratchet locks) can possibly fail. Assume that the only possible point of failure is those 8 bolts. 

Now I won't go Newtonian on you, but just for this hypothetical, say that the maximum weight that will ever be supported by the harness is 500kg, and say that each of the 8 bolts is rated to 750kg. By everyone's view, a single bolt would be enough to hold onto that harness, so we're using a safety factor of 12 times the rated capacity, so we're good, right?

But all bolts could fail. Moreso, all bolts could fail simultaneously and catastrophically. Perhaps they are overtightened because the incorrect torque was applied to them when they were fitted, stretching the thread and compromising the bolt integrity. Perhaps the alloy mix was flawed in this batch from the manufacturer and never identified. There are many ways that things can catastrophically fail without any prior warning, without anyone being able to predict it happening, or identifying the flaw prior to it failing.

Sure, it's highly unlikely - even improbable - but still possible. Based on the matrix above, we're still at a medium risk, which is hardly ideal. So you might add a seatbelt. But they can fail too, can't they?

The point is, there is always risk. And many people will consider the risks, and input reasonable and sensible control measures for almost every conceivable outcome. Almost.

Despite one former staff member saying that 35 years ago, they witnessed the precise incident that occurred on TRRR, nobody foresaw it happening. The slats have been pointed to as being a cause - as it was a modification to the original design - but if it happened 35 years ago, clearly the slats weren't the cause (although they may have been an aggravating factor)

 

@Tim Dasco - you say that you do risk assessments and controls. You say you have to identify every possible hazard - even so far as pointing to the risk of a car crashing into the site. So I ask you - do you identify as a hazard a commercial aircraft crashing into your building site? Earthquake? Terrorist Bombing? Hostage situation? Locusts? (By the way if you do - please share the control measures. I'm keen to hear them).

I'm going to hazard a guess that you don't. Because it isn't something one would contemplate when performing a risk assessment. it's not conceivable that these things would happen, even though if we're being objective - they could.

 

Further, once you have done your assessment (and I presume every other person working on site has to perform their own or at least review the assessment you have done too), how many other people then review that assessment? Do you have independent auditors routinely review your assessment and control measures? Do you have government inspectors do the same on a regular basis?

...And if you do, how regularly do you review your own assessment?

If your answer to that last question is longer than "every five minutes" then I put to you that:

3 hours ago, Tim Dasco said:

you can never be to safe. You can always do more cheeks, more in-depth and multiple times.

In the time it's taken you to read this post, your assessment is now outdated and invalid - time to check it again.

[Jamberoo Fan]

4 hours ago, Levithian said:

I don't think anything like that was probably made public though because, fortunately, nobody died, so there probably isn't a public inquest made available like what might follow after dreamworlds accident.

Inquests only occur if somebody died & if the Coroner thinks it is needed or if it is requested & the Coroner/District Court agrees with your request's reasoning.

4 hours ago, Levithian said:

how many extra have been added since the incident? Like, you could have had a yearly audit planned each year...

3 and the QLD Government does do an annual audit on theme parks.

4 hours ago, AlexB said:

...very few issues were identified, and none of those endangered the lives of guests.

As far as I know, Sea World & Wet 'n' Wild (and maybe Australia Zoo) have not released their safety audit findings to the public so we don't know that will end up being the case. In the end, the QLD Government may formally release the findings as they are going to review them.

2 hours ago, Tim Dasco said:

I whole heartedly...know...that TRRR and GL accidents were...not the parks fault.

Remember, TRRR's investigation findings are not released yet. For all we know, DW may be at fault.

[MaxxTheMonster]

DD currently testing...

Please forgive stupid phone...  All photos are taken with same orientation 

Edited December 17, 2016 by MaxxTheMonster

[Whombex]

1 hour ago, MaxxTheMonster said:

DD currently testing...

Please forgive stupid phone...  All photos are taken with same orientation 

Strangely if i view "full size" it orientates correctly.

[rappa]

What are all these phones people seem to be having that don't allow you to rotate photos?

[Brad2912]

Is the spray work behind the DD sign new or did I just never notice if before? 

[Whombex]

Not new. I recall seeing it in the construction photos thread. At least, the yellow part.

 

[EDIT - I was wrong, it's first shown on September 27, on Page 10 of this thread. ]

Edited December 17, 2016 by Glubbo

[MickeyD]

Fingers crossed for an improved DD ride experience when it reopens

[westical]

52 minutes ago, MickeyD said:

Fingers crossed for an improved DD ride experience when it reopens

What was wrong with it?

[MickeyD]

19 minutes ago, westical said:

What was wrong with it?

It feels too controlled and gives no swinging or free falling experience, at least not how it has been experienced so far. I have spoken about this already in previous reviews.. 

The unique Villian's area as a whole is a vast improvement, easily enough. I believe the ride experience of DD itself has somewhat missed the mark for what it was meant to offer - Villians themselves should be surprising and chaotic characters and the ride is controlled, anything but.

The ride itself is capable of producing more power so during it's downtime I hope they explore it's capabilities to offer a more 'Dynamic' experience this Holiday period.

Edited December 17, 2016 by MickeyD

[jake_hunt]

Off topic, but I could have sworn that DD and SVU were added to the park map on the MW website... Or did I dream that?

Because it's not there now and I had a heart attack.

[themagician]

No, you must've dreamt it. A picture of the map has been uploaded onto here, but their website never hasn't.

[Jamberoo Fan]

What's the go with Doomsday Destroyer?:

Quote

Closed for scheduled maintenance from Monday 31st Oct and re-opening on Wednesday 1st Feb 2017.

SCSC is still scheduled to re-open on Boxing Day according to Warner Brothers Movie World's website's attraction maintenance webpage.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Jamberoo Fan

[Santa07]

Something's certainly fishy if it's closed until then...

[Tim Dasco]

Maybe they are going to close it down forever!

 

(For those who can't tell that was a joke)

[westical]

It was getting on in weeks.