Speculation and media beat ups - Thunder River Rapids incident

[MARK28]

Hey guys, 

Just needing some clarification as a non-ride operator... How quickly would the E-Stop halt the conveyor belt? Is it instantaneous or do you have to wait a while? Or could it have malfunctioned and not stopped? 

What I can't get my head around is why was there enough time for the raft to flip, and screaming people to be caught up in a relatively slow moving conveyor belt without it being stopped?

There is absolutely no aggression in this... I totally understand that I've never been in the situation and it really is a freak accident but this aspect of it all is boggling me.

Would be good if someone who knows a bit more could explain.

 

[justaduck]

2 hours ago, Jamberoo Fan said:

In case you're mistaken, this is not Tuesday's incident. This was last month & there were 7 people on the raft in the photos shown in the article I posted.

Everytime I've been on the ride there was no rotating platform.

I believe when I first took my middle daughter on the ride back in March there were 7 of us in the one raft. My daughter had just turned 2 and was sitting in my lap.

I did think my partner would have a photo of us from standing on a bridge but I've only got a selfie of us on the ride so can't confirm 

[rappa]

An E-Stop stops all motion instantly as it removes all 'energy' from the system. 

[zacsta_1997]

Is dreamworld still planning on opening tomorrow? Cause I keep seeing posts on Facebook claiming the park won't reopen tomorrow, and will stay close indefinitely. While others saying it will open. Sounds like the media can't get their s**t together

[Brad2912]

10 minutes ago, zacsta_1997 said:

Is dreamworld still planning on opening tomorrow? Cause I keep seeing posts on Facebook claiming the park won't reopen tomorrow, and will stay close indefinitely. While others saying it will open. Sounds like the media can't get their s**t together

The park is not open tomorrow, or on the weekend. An update will be provided on Monday, so I think you can assume it will not be open then either 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Brad2912

[themagician]

Police are not finished with the scene and don't want it to be affected by anyone in anyway. I doubt it will open until it's been given the clear. It was said on the news that it was believed that DW would've returned to normal operations on Saturday, with the area and rides around river rapids to remain closed.

[Tim Dasco]

The chairman said during the GMA meeting that the Rapids and surrounding area (gold Rush) will be closed for many many months until everything is sorted out.

[ashhole157]

I wonder if TRR conveyor belt was like this. ( Ignore the maintenance staff's behaviour lol)

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ad17DJLKbI4

[Theme Park Girl]

54 minutes ago, Tim Dasco said:

The chairman said during the GMA meeting that the Rapids and surrounding area (gold Rush) will be closed for many many months until everything is sorted out.

Wow. That would most definitely include the Buzzsaw too then, given it shares a fence with TRR and is literally right next door. Looks like it's going to be back to being the Big8 for quite a while then, huh ?

That said, and with the Buzzsaw out of the equation, the Gold Rush area can be quite easily fenced off without affecting traffic flow throughout the remainder of the park (fence at GR main entrance, fence at bridge near Giant Drop). 

Honestly though, at this stage, I'll just be relieved for the park to continue operating, in light of all the malicious rumours and speculation that it may "never open again". I never believed that for a second, but the concept alone was still enough to send a chill down my spine.

I think this is an absolutely terrible tragedy, I really do. I've made no secret of how much this horrible loss of life has affected me personally over the past couple of days, it has rocked me to my absolute core. But, like many others here, I've grown up with the park since the 80s, and never want to see Dreamworld close, especially in such a manner as this. 

It has to stay open ❤️

[Tim Dasco]

I know this is most likely DW's last thing on their mind. But if that area is closed of for months and months wouldn't it be a good time to get rid of the asbestos. I don't mean bulldozing everything and build a new ride. But with that area closed could they get ride of just the parts of the building that contain asbestos now. So later down the track they can bulldoze the ride building or do something without closing a major section of the park of.

[Jamberoo Fan]

@Tim Dasco, I put the Chairman's quote earlier in another topic from a transcript but from listening to the actual recording, he did ad-lib to say "and it, that area".

And it's not 'many many months' - he said "until the conclusion of the Coronial enquiry", which if based on Luna Park Sydney's Ghost Train fire Coronial enquiry, won't finish for at least 3 months. Yes, it's months but not 'many many' - well not yet anyway. In any case, for Thunder River Rapids at least, it does depend on the Coronial enquiry's findings in the end.

Also, remember that information would've been better in the re-opening topic especially given it's confirmed information and not speculation.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Jamberoo Fan
Sentence about earlier post better belonging in different topic added. Also, corrected first sentence from 'this topic' to 'another topic' with hyperlink added.

[Tim Dasco]

Wasn't Green lantern took 9 months I thought.

[Jamberoo Fan]

Green Lantern's wasn't a Coronial enquiry but it took 7 & half months for the Workplace Health & Safety investigation to be complete plus 1 & a half more months of redesign & testing of the rollercoaster before opening again. Thunder River Rapids is a different circumstance to both the Ghost Train & Green Lantern incidents hence I wrote 'at least 3 months' - it may be longer in duration (particularly when you add on any possible maintenance periods after the enquiry is complete - assuming the Coroner doesn't recommend closing the ride permanently) and there is a possibility an inquest will be held increasing the time the Coronial enquiry runs for.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Jamberoo Fan

[zacsta_1997]

Dreamworld would most probably close TRR and leave it SBNO either out of respect or because people know what happened with this ride. But I'm hoping dreamworld can completely fix the fault, and replace the badly damaged parts, cause I'd love to see TRR operating as normal again. 

[bladex]

if they do re-open TRRR they better redesign that conveyor belt and the metal part at the bottom of it (see pics) also has to go so this can never EVER happen again

[Themeparkfan]

I truly doubt it will ever be allowed to operate again.  Not after 4 lives have been lost  I think they will probably replace the whole system with a new one  with that being said though there are several rides at Disneyland that have taken lives and are still operating today  so who knows really 

[mission]

I'm really starting to think Dreamworld are going to be in a world over pain over this, in a legal sense.

After seeing diagrams of what allegedly happened I can't see how this was NOT a foreseeable event, and that conveyor "belt" with the huge gaps just looks dangerous (and last time I was in the ride I did think that to myself).

In a sense, hopefully that is a planned event (pumps failing, water level dropping, rafts getting stuck) and then something unforeseeable happened, such as major safety system failures etc but I dunno, it just looks all too plausible to happen.

Those big gaps would also likely lead to an increase of flipping the tubes as the slats 'grab' at the base, as the base gets a little stuck in the gaps, and keep pushing.  Further to this is the original conveyor was built with very little gaps, much like most other rides of its kind.  I assume the gaps were widened to allow better water drainage and higher friction.

Of course this is all speculation, but the facts and allegations don't look good to me at the moment. And that's hard for me to say as a loooong time dream world visitor (my first visit being early 80's! - time flies....)

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

14 hours ago, ashhole157 said:

Ardent CEO has donated her $850,000 pay bonus along with another $157,500 to the red cross to benefit the families of this tragedy. Should shut the media up on the "article" now.

It won't.

13 hours ago, Carrie_Smattick said:

http://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting/real-life/in-the-news/why-im-still-taking-my-three-kids-to-dreamworld

Feeling like I lost a few IQ points reading this rubbish. This genius reckons the river rapids ride will be up and running in a couple of weeks for when her family visits the GC and she'll go toss the kids on it. She's more interested in talking about getting a "wet bum", I guess the four people who died were just an inconvenience to her holiday.

As mentioned by someone else, I didn't take that from reading the article. A lot of parents who have GC trips planned for the summer will have had these same thoughts. Many would be considering changing their plans. This article reinforces that the parks all take safety very seriously, and also quotes a few statistics - Halfway through reading it I was already thinking "the plane flight to get there is more dangerous than the rides" and then she said it in the article... and it's true.

Parents will be reading these blogs. My wife does. And if this gives them a little more faith that everything is as safe as it can be, convinces them to keep their travel plans unchanged, it will help the entire tourism industry on the gold coast rebound from what will be a serious impact to them.

13 hours ago, JeffreyMoore said:

Without the rafts been stoped there would have been less chance of the raft getting stuck is how i see it 

There is a lot of information out there and a lot of it may or may not be true. If the details about the pump failing are correct, and the water level had dropped enough for the raft in front to 'bottom out' on the guide rails, then rotating platform or not, this potentially could still have happened.

10 hours ago, MARK28 said:

Hey guys, 

Just needing some clarification as a non-ride operator... How quickly would the E-Stop halt the conveyor belt? Is it instantaneous or do you have to wait a while? Or could it have malfunctioned and not stopped? 

What I can't get my head around is why was there enough time for the raft to flip, and screaming people to be caught up in a relatively slow moving conveyor belt without it being stopped?

There is absolutely no aggression in this... I totally understand that I've never been in the situation and it really is a freak accident but this aspect of it all is boggling me.

Would be good if someone who knows a bit more could explain.

 

As @djrappa mentioned, an E-stop engages all safety systems and stops all mechanical components immediately. However - for a ride of this type, although the conveyor would stop immediately, after the pumps stop it would take probably 10-20 seconds for the water level to drop in the station area, and up to a minute for it to drain out the entire ride.

From all I have read \ understood so far, the flip took only a moment. nothing would have seemed out of place until the raft hit the one in front, and the conveyor would have only needed 3-5 seconds to flip the raft, depending on a number of factors which I don't think we need to detail. An operator's reaction time depends on a number of things, but even if they need to see it happen on a monitor, recognise a problem, look at the control panel, identify the E-stop and punch it, thats a couple seconds.

Obviously it's very different, but I did driver training for the work I did during G20. We tested braking reactions and our minimum response time was around 1.2 seconds... and this is when we were told beforehand to expect an emergency brake situation.

 

8 hours ago, ashhole157 said:

I wonder if TRR conveyor belt was like this. ( Ignore the maintenance staff's behaviour lol)

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ad17DJLKbI4

I'm quite familiar with the Wonderland version. Wonderland's version crested the upper wall, and then dipped downwards significantly. The run off from the conveyor (as you can see in the video) is a mesh grating that mirrors the same angle. I believe TRRs conveyor runs virtually flat at the top, once it crests the upper wall it continues to travel for a few metres, before dropping the raft off the edge. There is a change in angle at that point, so it differs to the Wonderland conveyor in that the guide rails underwater on TRR do not sit at the same level or angle.

And as rightly pointed out - the slats are continuous, not gapped as the TRR version is.

[razza1987]

Jeremy Dorsetts statement to The Project is in this article:

http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/grandmother-of-dreamworld-disaster-survivor-kate-died-in-his-arms/news-story/6e3261fb1e08461b0f710fa20c34f636

Edited October 27, 2016 by razza1987

[zacsta_1997]

What's this I hear? Is Ardent leisure really changing their company name to Main Event Entertainment?  I understand ardent doesnt want this incident under their name, but don't you think a change of name is too soon?

[Santa07]

Looks like they're trying to escape the hate

Yes it's too soon

Plus they could've come up with a better name...

[mission]

7 minutes ago, zacsta_1997 said:

What's this I hear? Is Ardent leisure really changing their company name to Main Event Entertainment?  I understand ardent doesnt want this incident under their name, but don't you think a change of name is too soon?

They had their Annual GM the other day.

This would have been an agenda item that was locked in long before this happened.  Shareholders would have had to vote on the name change.

It would not be a reaction to what happened at Dreamworld.

[webslave]

It's not.  It's to bring it in-line with their overseas business dealings which have become more of their focus.

[Brad2912]

Yep, that motion was flagged for voting at the AGM well over a month ago when FY 16 results were released 

[Original]

Yep the name change of the company has been discussed here for several weeks, so was not a reaction to the incident.