Speculation and media beat ups - Thunder River Rapids incident

[pin142]

1 hour ago, POP said:

The Courier Mail is disgusting. 

Sad to say but I don't expect anything less from that paper. They seem to put anything on the front page that will get them attention/sales. One reason why I refuse to buy it.

Edited October 25, 2016 by pin142

[UpperCoomera]

102.9 Hot Tomato has just reported that union bodies approached workplace health and safety more than 18 months ago raising grave concerns over the safety of the ride and AS REPORTED BY HOT TOMATO, Ardent Leisure vehemently opposed any investigation into the matter.

I don't know if it's just speculation on behalf of the radio station or fact. I hope it's untrue, otherwise we have seen the last of Dreamworld as it now involves gross negligence, a criminal offence.

This is not word for word.

 

ADDITION: I am only repeating what I heard on Hot Tomato, I am in no way stating this as fact or otherwise

Edited October 25, 2016 by UpperCoomera
Indemnification

[razza1987]

I'm confused what the morcombes have to do with this 

[UpperCoomera]

↑ it was an earlier post by a gutless troll (@Hiisi25) @razza1987, who has no place even being in this site

Edited October 25, 2016 by UpperCoomera
Didn't want people to think @razza was the troll

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

The thing about health and safety is that every workplace has elected representatives to fill the position of 'Health and Safety Representative" (HSR). If there were known safety issues identified by an HSR, and the park did not act to address them to the satisfaction of the HSR, the HSR is empowered by legislation to invoke a PIN, or Provisional Improvement Notice. If a PIN is issued, the park would have been given only 8 days (or other reasonable timeframe) to rectify the issue before the HSR could call in WH&S inspectors, who in turn could shut down the park until the breach was rectified... No way there were safety issues identified that were legitimate cause for concern that long ago.

3 minutes ago, razza1987 said:

I'm confused what the morcombes have to do with this 

Don't worry @razza1987 - that ridiculous troll was trying to drag them into the discussion, and said some very unpleasant things about them. It was several pages ago, and whilst I realise he has already been banned, I felt that a rebuttal was needed. Don't let it distract you from the rest of the topic.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I daresay the police and the park will make applications to have the CCTV suppressed on the grounds it is too graphic. It will be eyes only for those that need to see it. I'll be very surprised if the CCTV is ever 'officially' released, and if someone leaks it - god help them for the fury that the park will rain down.

Edited October 26, 2016 by joz

[razza1987]

18 minutes ago, UpperCoomera said:

↑ it was an earlier post by a gutless troll (@Hiisi25) @razza1987, who has no place even being in this site

Thanks for answering. I didn't see the posts in question so I was confused like wtf lol. Good thing they have been banned

19 minutes ago, AlexB said:

The thing about health and safety is that every workplace has elected representatives to fill the position of 'Health and Safety Representative" (HSR). If there were known safety issues identified by an HSR, and the park did not act to address them to the satisfaction of the HSR, the HSR is empowered by legislation to invoke a PIN, or Provisional Improvement Notice. If a PIN is issued, the park would have been given only 8 days (or other reasonable timeframe) to rectify the issue before the HSR could call in WH&S inspectors, who in turn could shut down the park until the breach was rectified... No way there were safety issues identified that were legitimate cause for concern that long ago.

Don't worry @razza1987 - that ridiculous troll was trying to drag them into the discussion, and said some very unpleasant things about them. It was several pages ago, and whilst I realise he has already been banned, I felt that a rebuttal was needed. Don't let it distract you from the rest of the topic.

Thank you for answering. I guess I missed the posts in question so I was confused. I honestly don't know why that idiot brought up that family. They have absolutely nothing to do with this tragedy

I can't stop thinking as well how the operators of this ride must be feeling today 

[razza1987]

Apparently the investigators are exploring the possibility of an empty raft getting stuck on the conveyor belt and then the raft with the family in it rammed into the empty raft and flipped over. Apparently two children aged 10 and 13 were also on the ride when it flipped but they both survived

[andrewt92]

I'm sick of seeing the media outlets raising the log ride incident from earlier this year. That was caused by a guest not following rules. 

 

That's like blaming the council for somebody dying on their roads due to speeding.

 

Also, I know it's never good to dwell on 'what if' scenarios, but i'd be curious to know if the rider protection was secure harnesses instead of velcro straps, would they have been alive today? It appears that the tube went vertical but didn't completely flip.

 

Obviously the ride is quite tame and for 30 years velcro straps have been suitable, however on a worst case scenario basis (yesterday) they weren't...

 

What are your thoughts?  

 

Credit to our theme parks who for decades have kept us safe and incident free. 

 

One thing Australians are good at is safety.

[Harold]

I don't want to be locked in with a harness to a ride that basically freely travels down a river. If the boat turned over (or any number of other things that could cause you to want to escape happened) you're in a world of strife. 

[Kussie]

The video showing the removal of the raft overnight shows some pretty heavy damage to the raft itself especially to some of the seat areas.

 

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-26/police-remove-raft-on-which-four-people-killed-dreamworld/7965296

[GoGoBoy]

17 minutes ago, andrewt92 said:

I'm sick of seeing the media outlets raising the log ride incident from earlier this year. That was caused by a guest not following rules. 

 

That's like blaming the council for somebody dying on their roads due to speeding.

 

Also, I know it's never good to dwell on 'what if' scenarios, but i'd be curious to know if the rider protection was secure harnesses instead of velcro straps, would they have been alive today? It appears that the tube went vertical but didn't completely flip.

I'd suggest the raft did flip entirely, but was then positioned on its side by rescuers. Entirely speculating of course.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

9 minutes ago, andrewt92 said:

Also, I know it's never good to dwell on 'what if' scenarios, but i'd be curious to know if the rider protection was secure harnesses instead of velcro straps, would they have been alive today? It appears that the tube went vertical but didn't completely flip.

As @Harold mentioned above - there is a reason that water rides, rapids and log flumes do not have a harness that cannot be undone by the rider easily. The seats lean backwards, so it would take an incredible force to throw you out under normal conditions, but if the raft was to tip, you want to be able to get out as quickly as possible. The velcro is the most suitable option in this situation.

And in this incident, had the riders been secured with a harness, those on the bottom of the raft would have had no chance of escape, and would have been pinned underwater.

[webslave]

Let's not forget that this isn't without precedent.  After all, Disney killed a guy with Big Thunder a little over ten years ago in an accident that was directly attributed to poor maintenance work, yet people still line up for hours to ride it.

In a world where people die in industrial accidents (and more) every day in equally tragic circumstances have we considered why this is so newsworthy?  I believe it's because amusement parks have such wide appeal among the public and therefore the stories have a lot of cut-through because "it could have happened to me".  There's amusement parks all over the world which makes the story locally relevant in most regions, and there's also an element of "the appeal of this is meant to be the illusion that they are dangerous, but this one actually was".

With that said, I really, really wish people would stop trying to insert themselves into the narrative (eg; POP).  If you didn't know those directly affected, or had no personal involvement in the incident there's little need to ramp up hyperbole about how badly affected you are, and how it's been giving you nightmares.  I'm also at a loss to understand the logic behind attending vigils and tributes for people that you don't know off the back of little other than an interest in theme parks.  I mean, come on - look at this objectively; how do you think somebody would feel whose loved-ones were involved if the "theme park enthusiasts" at Parkz were all over them with condolences?  Literally the only thing binding you apart from humanity is an interest in the manner of their death.  Sounds awful - but it's the reality of it.  Pump the brakes, take a deep breath, and come back when you're no longer as emotionally invested.

[Brad2912]

A senior official from the AWU just interviewed on radio saying they have  been in constant contact with park management regarding employees concerns about ride safety and maintenance standards but have been continually palmed off by management 

[Harold]

You want to be wary about what union officials say at times like these. Their duty is to the members, and naturally they are inclined to get on the front foot and direct  blame towards management. Not suggesting that they are lying or wrong, but they aren't impartial observers by any means. 

You can apply the same to management, ride vendors, or contracted maintenance people. They all have a dog in the hunt at times like these and have an incentive to steer the narrative so they look the 'least worst'.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Yeah, and where were they before somebody died.

The park is required by law to have health and safety representatives (HSRs). If a HSR identifies a safety concern they issue a breach notice. if the park fails to rectify it they are empowered by law to issue a PIN (provisional improvement notice) which gives the park 7 days to rectify the issue or shut it down. If they still fail to do either of those things, the HSR can call in a WH&S inspector which can close down the site indefinitely.

In my opinion - 'palmed off' translates to 'gave us an answer that was satisfactory under law but that we weren't happy with'.

[Brad2912]

Agree with both of you, just reporting what had been said. 

Seems like a ridiculous time to go to the media with concerns, maybe they should have done that beforehand if they were so concerned with the parks receptiveness. 

I don't think the blame game should be happening less than 24hrs after the tradegy, well at least it shouldn't be being played out in the media 

[nitrofan]

3 hours ago, Richard said:

This suggestion is incorrect. That small patch of white is not one of the steel bars but rather one of the cloth sheets placed at the site after the incident. The placement of the raft in that photo is not a location where there there are any steel bars or mechanical devices to hold the rafts in place.

There's some images from other angles in The Sun's coverage, but be warned it's distressing and their information/speculation is also woefully incorrect.

 

I havent been on the ride before so im not arguing with you, just inquiring...but looking at videos of the ride there are  two bars. One at the front that i assume stops the raft in the dislodging area and another behind it that would appear to be in the approximate location where the the front raft is. Is this not correct? Is the rear bar further along than were the raft is stopped?

[Richard]

There's one gate at the unload platform where the disembarking raft stops. There's another one just before it which looks to exist to prevent subsequent rafts from bumping into the first one while guests are hopping off. This is further along than where either raft is stopped -- it appears as if both of these gates are within the fenced off platform area that can be seen in the various aerial photos.

[webslave]

 

48 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

A senior official from the AWU just interviewed on radio saying they have  been in constant contact with park management regarding employees concerns about ride safety and maintenance standards but have been continually palmed off by management 

Not concerned enough to ban operation of the ride though, it seems.  Hindsight is beautiful, especially when it gives you mileage to stick it to the man.

Edited October 26, 2016 by webslave

[razza1987]

I saw this article on Snapchat and thought I would share it here:

 

http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/queensland-police-share-details-of-how-the-thunder-river-rapids-ride-killed-four-people/news-story/bf66e6889091447199ec141ce7aa45af

Meaning of "incompatible with life":

http://www.news.com.au/national/ambulance-officer-slammed-for-saying-four-dreamworld-dead-suffered-injuries-incompatible-with-life/news-story/8d090b77b4f942237839b488b6567637

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by razza1987

[razza1987]

How low can some people get. According to the family of Kate Goodchild her husbands wallet and phone were stolen from the pram as he tried to save her 

[diesal11]

Seeing some of the crap on my Facebook since yesterday makes me realise why the media are so negative towards Dreamworld. The GP are no better in some cases.

Apparently everyone on my FB feed today is a Mechanical/Ride Engineer who knows better than you know, the actual Ride Engineers with years of experience who know the ride inside out.

This union stuff annoys me too tbh, if they really had a problem with it why is it only brought up like this now?

I really wish everyone would just shut up until the official reports start coming through. Dreamworld don't deserve to have the finger pointed at them until we KNOW it's their fault (if it even was). They're grieving as much as the rest of us over this.

Disgusting really.

[Brad2912]

This was posted on QPS (Qld Police) FB page this morning.. 

SURELY this person is absolutely full of BS..