Songcheng Legendary Kingdom in Nerang

[Jamberoo Fan]

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A ferry service on the Nerang River from the park to Metricon Stadium and Surfers Paradise is also part of the plan.

Basing it on the speed of a traditional Sydney ferry, a ferry trip to Metricon Stadium one-way would take 3-9 minutes whilst to Surfers Paradise one-way would take 36 minutes extra (so 39-45 minutes from Australian Legends World to Surfers Paradise).

As the park is targeted to Chinese tourists, would a ferry to Australian Legends World be feasible if only 529 people visit it per day (plus also given Metricon Stadium isn't used on a daily basis for events)?:

On 23/11/2016 at 4:31 PM, Jamberoo Fan said:

As Ardent Leisure published their attendance figures, I'll use that as an example so assuming DW's Chinese attendance is the same as VRTP: DW's 2016 attendance - 2,413,937 = average daily attendance - 6613 people & 8% of that is 529 Chinese guests per day.

Also, looking at Songcheng's offical website (contains some more details about the project), some interesting quotes:

Quote

The complex is predicted to be open in 3 years

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1 show will be an immersive show, using new artistic expression way to change the traditional relationship between audience and the stage as well as the relationship between actors and the story. It is an interactive experience, showing the change of Australia in a magic, secretive, time-travelling, multi-dimensional and multi-space way. Actors and actresses will move among various spaces, and audience can choose where they want to go, who they want to follow and even change the ending as they like.

That last quote, I can only assume is the 'Phantom Of The Gold' immersive experience mentioned in the Gold Coast Bulletin article earlier. It sounds interesting written the way it is.

[MickeyD]

It's interesting to see how so many of us are Tall-Poppying the idea of the Project before it is barely more than just that. A Project.

Myself, I'm  actually quite excited by the whole thing. In many ways it reprises the original ideals of the good ol Dreamworld days of the 1980's and indeed that too of the original WB's Movie World of the 90's. That is before it became 6FlagsVillageWorld as we know it today. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I am sure that the whole Park design and feel will continue to evolve before ground has broken on it and indeed long  after too no doubt should it be successful, based on that of Predecessors.

In an environment like the Gold Coast, shows and experiences alone do not deliver timely success. To be sure, it will need more than just that to stand up to test the times. Regardless of the wow factor.

Rides will do that. In successful Theme Parks they always have and always will.

Edited December 1, 2016 by MickeyD

[joz]

On 01/12/2016 at 8:16 PM, MickeyD said:

"It's interesting to see how so many of us are Tall-Poppying the idea..."

 

"Myself, I'm  actually quite excited by the whole thing. In many ways it reprises the original ideals of the good ol Dreamworld days of the 1980's and indeed that too of the original WB's Movie World of the 90's."

I must admit I'm on the side of knocking the project.  This isn't exactly a response to you MickeyD, but I've quoted you because you have inspired me to write more complete thoughts on the project (as proposed, opinion subject to change as more information comes to light)

 

The main entry is an indoor ski slope inside a Re-creation of Uluru.  That to me sounds the ramblings of a madman.  Uluru still has an active culture, so it gets treated with a lot of respect in this country.  Building a replica and putting an indoor ski slope is not treating it with respect, it's treating it as a novelty, turning a sacred site into a road stop.  

 

"Oh Joz what are you on about, building a replica doesn't take away from the real one and doesn't disrespect anything"  What I'm saying isn't that this is a slap in the face to the real Uluru, what I'm saying is that this displays a lack of understanding of Australian culture, which isn't a good sign since that promises to be a fundamental part of the park.  This isn't Australian history, it's Australian history as told by a Chinese business man who doesn't understand Australian history or culture.

 

The parks principle themes seem to be 'Aboriginal Culture' 'Captain Cook's arrival' and a 'Chinese cultural area'.  What a random combination of themes.  There's nothing that goes all those themes together, no over arching theme, it's just a mish mash or half baked ideas, and I can't get even a little bit enthusiastic for it.  Stuff like running a ferry service to Surfers and Carrara Stadium doesn't make sense to me.  Might they bring in your groups via boat instead of by bus?  Yeah probably, but to say there'll be a Ferry service is nonsense.  And why go to Carrara Stadium?  Unless the plan is to do some sort of park and ride thing on game day that makes no sense.  

 

Also according to the last report there won't be any thrill rides on opening.  So there you have it, a park with no rides doing cultural shows designed by a man who doesn't understand culture themed around elements that don't gel together for a non-existent market of Chinese tourists + ski slope.  I'm sorry but it sounds awful.  

 

You've been around the Gold Coast tourism scene, you know the crowd Movie World was built for, it was built to cater for international tourists who never showed up.  You also know the reason Movie World is the way it is has to do with them going after the local market because what they were trying to do didn't work.  Dreamworld at least opened with a couple thrill rides and Movie World had a couple good family adventure rides to keep them going.  Dreamworld & Movieworld also both had good well defined over arching and compelling themes.

 

This place has none of those things.

[SunshineTom]

I can't see this working. Yes, they will attract the tourists but locals will likely go for one of two visits and then abandon the place as there doesn't look to be thrill rides which are what the general public wants these days. If you think otherwise then look no further than FOX Studios. Even that struggled to get one visit out of the Sydney locals. Locals ultimately sustain a theme park and if you can't get the locals and their REPEAT business then just don't bother. 

[Brad2912]

I have to say my initial thought was how a show re-creating the arrival of captain cook to Australia was somehow going to compliment an aboriginal cultural focus... 

[SunshineTom]

27 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

I have to say my initial thought was how a show re-creating the arrival of captain cook to Australia was somehow going to compliment an aboriginal cultural focus... 

 

Those protestors in Canberra would have a field day. 

[Jamberoo Fan]

18 hours ago, joz said:

Building a replica and putting an indoor ski slope is not treating it with respect, it's treating it as a novelty, turning a sacred site into a road stop.  

It does have precedent though in Australia at the defunct Leyland Brothers World - the inside of this one is a restaurant and now is a road stop:

18 hours ago, joz said:

Might they bring in your groups via boat instead of by bus? 

There was a bus car park in the artist impression but in regards to the ferry, I've only got the impression that it picks up only from the park - nothing about dropping off yet so to me, it currently sounds like an exit.

5 hours ago, SunshineTom said:

If you think otherwise then look no further than FOX Studios. Even that struggled to get one visit out of the Sydney locals.

Fox Studios was a bit different - it was a 'backlot' and the owners even insisted it wasn't a theme park (despite the media promoting that it was). While it did have 1 worthy experience (Titanic: The Experience), the whole 'backlot' wasn't a 'day' attraction in itself and with the high ticket prices, wasn't worthy of entry to most of the general public. This new Gold Coast park is targeted to Chinese tourists and whilst it might be more appealing to them than Australian residents, the number of Chinese tourists on the Gold Coast is still too low for this level of investment. Songcheng might be basing it on the level of success they get in China so they need to lower their expectations & also more importantly, their level of investment for this to work in Australia.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Jamberoo Fan

[Brad2912]

26 minutes ago, Jamberoo Fan said:

 in regards to the ferry, I've only got the impression that it picks up only from the park - nothing about dropping off yet so to me, it currently sounds like an exit.

So you can get on the ferry, but then you can't get off anywhere? 

[Jamberoo Fan]

I meant nothing about dropping off at the park. They would still drop off guests at Metricon Stadium & Surfers Paradise.

[Brad2912]

39 minutes ago, Jamberoo Fan said:

I meant nothing about dropping off at the park. They would still drop off guests at Metricon Stadium & Surfers Paradise.

So guests drive to the park, then catch the ferry home? 

Do buses only work one way? 

There is either a functioning ferry terminal, or there isn't. 

[Jamberoo Fan]

I was just imagining tour buses dropping them off at the park & meeting them back at the hotel the next day or if there is something on at Metricon Stadium, there at the event's conclusion to take them back to the hotel. The guests would go in the park, enjoy the shows & then hop on the ferry at the end to get back to Surfers Paradise or if there is something on at Metricon Stadium, to get there to enjoy an event.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Jamberoo Fan

[Gazza]

2 hours ago, Jamberoo Fan said:

I meant nothing about dropping off at the park. They would still drop off guests at Metricon Stadium & Surfers Paradise.

Why would the ferry only run one way? What gives the impression it is exit only?

Am I missing something?

Why wouldn't it run both ways....like any other ferry, with the option to buy a single or return ticket....like any other ferry?

Edited December 3, 2016 by Gazza

[Brad2912]

Because that would be way too simple.

[Jamberoo Fan]

1 hour ago, Gazza said:

Why would the ferry only run one way? What gives the impression it is exit only?

Am I missing something?

Why wouldn't it run both ways....like any other ferry, with the option to buy a single or return ticket....like any other ferry?

I'm probably reading into this too much but the quote said:

Quote

A ferry service on the Nerang River from the park to Metricon Stadium and Surfers Paradise is also part of the plan.

So far, that only implies one way. The only other reason why I considered it going one way was because constant two-way operation seems completely unfeasible in my opinion. One-way operation at selected times in the afternoon might be more appropriate as some 'unique' exit to the park particularly if the park receives low attendance that only consists of Chinese tourists on pre-booked bus tours. So imagine something like a pre-booked bus tour '...which includes a day visit to Australian Legends World + afternoon ferry cruise along the Nerang River' etc. Pre-booked bus tours have the ability to be organised like this & Chinese tourists probably make a large portion of that market. Some tourist attractions even only open to pre-booked tours - maybe Australian Legends World is going to be one of these?

Edited December 3, 2016 by Jamberoo Fan

[Brad2912]

You are way over-analysing. Again.

if I tell my missus there's awesome fares available to the US at the moment, that doesn't mean there is no way to return back to Australia, or that the return flights are expensive, just because I didn't mention that. 

[wipeout94]

I feel the ferry service would be very popular.

The argument that if a route is feasible or not is irrelevant.

Most local transport options in Australia are not feasible but are heavily subsidised to lesson the traffic on roads.

Also people will not care about the speed of the trip. Think of it like the Parramatta river service. There are faster options but people will line up to travel on water.

Lastly if the wharf is positioned strategically it would only be a few minutes walk from Nerang Train station. This would obviously create more options for people to access Surfers Paradise. 

 

 

[joz]

Have you been from Nerang to Surfers using the Nerang river?  Are you aware that it takes about 4 times longer than by bus?

 

The only people who would use it are tourists using it as part of a package, or school groups who want to squeeze an extra activity into their excursion to the Nerang Aussie/Chinese cultural mish mash.  Not a totally irrelevant market mind you, but nothing approaching what is required to sustain the park.

[wipeout94]

For travel times on the Nerang river I do agree they that they will be 4 times longer then other options, but people like to travel on water. I would not be surprised if the ferry becomes a tourist attraction in its own right.

For the park itself until there is further detail it would not be an attraction I would visit more then once.

Although people think it is a strange mix I don't think that it means it will be a failure.

I know a number of Gold Coast locals who have seen the Outback Spectacular only once but the show continues to attract crowds year after year.

[Gazza]

Quote

I'm probably reading into this too much but the quote said:

If you are going to analyse stuff, you need to apply Occam's razor a bit more "the simplest explanation is probably the correct one".

If your interpretation of something is resulting in a nonsese assertion, that probably means youve interpreted incorrectly.

See this screenshot.

According to you this means you can only get a ferry one way to Stradbroke island, and cant get one back?

[Jamberoo Fan]

16 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

You are way over-analysing. Again.

Out of all the things I've posted, I'm probably over-analysing this one as two-way ferries is probably what they meant but I still don't see how a two-way Nerang River ferry based out of this park will work and that's why I think what I said below is more likely:

17 hours ago, Jamberoo Fan said:

... So imagine something like a pre-booked bus tour '...which includes a day visit to Australian Legends World + afternoon ferry cruise along the Nerang River' etc.

 

14 hours ago, wipeout94 said:

Most local transport options in Australia are not feasible but are heavily subsidised to lesson the traffic on roads.

Remember, Sydney's ferries are for commuters - this one is for going to a theme park targeted to a very small market.

8 hours ago, wipeout94 said:

 I would not be surprised if the ferry becomes a tourist attraction in its own right.

There are already 'similar' tourist attractions to give you an idea of their appeal on the Gold Coast:

 

8 hours ago, wipeout94 said:

Although people think it is a strange mix I don't think that it means it will be a failure.

I know a number of Gold Coast locals who have seen the Outback Spectacular only once but the show continues to attract crowds year after year.

AOS is 1 $23 million show with 1000 seat capacity - this is multiple shows surrounded by various worlds built as part of an approximately half a billion dollar project targeted to a market that consists of less than 600 people per day per park.

8 hours ago, Gazza said:

If you are going to analyse stuff, you need to apply Occam's razor a bit more "the simplest explanation is probably the correct one".

If your interpretation of something is resulting in a nonsese assertion, that probably means youve interpreted incorrectly.

I think the idea of a all-day two-way ferry operation for this park is nonsense (so I think Songcheng has misinterpreted a few things) but I also think the idea of a one-way ferry operating at selected times as part of a pre-booked bus tour is more logical for this park. I do agree though that when people are talking about ferries, they are always talking about a two-way ferry.

8 hours ago, Gazza said:

According to you this means you can only get a ferry one way to Stradbroke island, and cant get one back?

I see what you mean but on that website, once you find the timetables, you know it's definitely two-way. So far, for this park, they've only implied one-way.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Jamberoo Fan

[SunshineTom]

1 hour ago, Jamberoo Fan said:

AOS is 1 $23 million show with 1000 seat capacity - this is multiple shows surrounded by various worlds built as part of an approximately half a billion dollar project targeted to a market that consists of less than 600 people per day per park.

 

Are you talking about Movie World, Sea World and Dream World? Surely they get more than 600 people per day. Add a 0 on that?

[Jamberoo Fan]

I'm talking about all of them. Yes, they do get more than 600 people per day - DW, in fact, does get 6000 people per day on average. The market I was referring to was the Chinese tourist market which each theme park gets less than 600 guests from each day on average. I was referring to the Chinese tourist market as Australian Legends World is targeted to Chinese tourists.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

*HEADDESK* *HEADDESK* *HEADDESK*

@Jamberoo Fan - You really need to learn when to let something go. Every reasonable response to you has shown you why the one way ferry concept is ridiculously absurd and yet you still persist.

So i'll offer you yet another reason, to which you'll say something like 'that makes sense, but it still isn't confirmed and one way would work because *full retard*'

Here it is:

If you only run them one way, they come back empty. This effectively means you would double your cost of operation so that the ferry can return to the start point to pick up more people - the paying guests have to cover the cost of fuel and wages in both directions for a single trip. If you pick up and drop off in both directions, each trip potentially has revenue, which means you can keep costs lower per ticket - which would make more people choose to use it.

The same applies to your statement about tour buses dropping them off and the ferry picking them up - now the tour bus is only going one way as well. Most tour buses will wait at the attraction until your group comes out - unless it has another booking in the interim - because driving anywhere else increases costs.

As usual, you overanalyse and read way too much into something, you take it so literally instead of just accepting that the way we speak and write english can sometimes be misinterpreted. All you have to do is take a look at rulings of the high court to see that even parliament sometimes words things badly. Usually when legislation is ambiguous, they go back and look at the explanatory memorandum (a document distributed to MPs before debate \ vote so that they can understand what mischief the legislation is trying to correct) to see what was intended.

Now - don't reply with another long winded explanation, quoting various sentences in isolation, just say

'yeah, you guys are probably right, I just didn't read it that way'

...and then we can move on.

[MickeyD]

Taronga's Ferry is an example of a fantastic way to arrive and depart the Zoo, unfortunately the Vistas from Surfers to Nerang/Carrara are far less impressive. There are a few more challenges to face when considering such a Project:

1.How many paying Guests would be willing to shell out the extra $$$ - or would this be part of the package?

2. Assuming the above, what extra benefits could be offered to entice people aboard like Lounge, Dining and Beverage services? I imagine a cruise that offered unlimited drinks and buffet that changed over the day/evening would be a very enticing package for many.

3. Offering regular Ferry services up and down the Nerang River will no doubt substantially increase the traffic on the River - a waterway previously owned by Thousands of households with little to no disruption. There would surely be a massive fight to get this passed.

4. To get locals over the line and provide it as a true Public Transportation system, other Ports would have to  be added along the route, further lengthening the journey.

[SunshineTom]

They're better off linking it to the tram.