I double say boycott ING! ((DOWN WITH ING))

[SeanM]

bankers are like cockroaches...they all should be shot..period look at the NAB #$%@! :mad: theme parks are made with dreams, and plenty of imagination they kill young childrens dreams...dreams of fun and enjoyment with family and friends. maybe they can change the logo from WONDERLAND TO FACTORYLAND or GETTOLAND? :eek: they will NEVER EVER get one cent of investment money from me.. allready I have told all my friends with ING saving accounts to pull out. a note to ING Managers "#$%! you and #$%! your family" Have a nice day as you would say..in a mono-toned voice.. "imagination is more important than knowledge" WALT DISNEY... Cheers Sean

[Flea]

Welcome to the boards. I have to disagree with everything you have said here. ING have done nothing wrong, they snapped up a brilliant deal and nothing else. If anything, you should be blaming Sunway for not making any attempt in saving the park (investing, selling the park to a theme park chain etc).

[SeanM]

All Banks do is just rape and pillaged people and things in the name of corporate dollar$$$....look at the way the US is going. Total greed...nothing more...your really don't believe in all that "propaganda" spread by banks, banks don't care about people... they are totally non-human... they should leave the "propaganda" to the russians. Sunway should be taken around the back as well. Cheers Sean

[SeanM]

Flea, Sorry forgot to add, thanks for welcoming me to the board.. Cheers Sean

[zordmaker]

bankers are like cockroaches...they all should be shot..period look at the NAB #$%@! :mad:   theme parks are made with dreams, and plenty of imagination they kill young childrens dreams...dreams of fun and enjoyment with family and friends. maybe they can change the logo from WONDERLAND TO FACTORYLAND or GETTOLAND? :eek:   they will NEVER EVER get one cent of investment money from me.. allready I have told all my friends with ING saving accounts to pull out. a note to ING Managers "#$%! you and #$%! your family" Have a nice day as you would say..in a mono-toned voice.. "imagination is more important than knowledge" WALT DISNEY... Cheers Sean

Likewise I feel the same, thats why I initiated http://savewonderland.artelex.com However I dont agree (yet) with your suggestion to boycott ING. At present the new owner is our best chance of getting Wonderland (or at least bits of it) back open again. Sunway is your enemy. But I never heard anyone (including me) make noise back in 1997 when the interests were sold overseas inthe first place. I have considerable investments with ING. However I'm not going to start a boycott until I've got their attention first, and they have made it clear they don't want to negotiate. All of us who feel pissed off about Wonderland closing should be writing letters to the relevant pollies NOW. Believe me the system does work, but it's ever so slow. And Wonderland will be safe in the meantime. I hear they've got the army in.. :cool: ZordMaker

[SeanM]

Hi Zordmaker, funny that, I noticed your web site a few hours ago and thought man there's a guy with guts *handshake*..It just pisses me right off that people just seem to except things for how they are and not make a stand....for what they believe in... "All of us who feel pissed off about Wonderland closing should be writing letters to the relevant pollies NOW. Believe me the system does work, but it's ever so slow. And Wonderland will be safe in the meantime." Trust me I have...!!!...and they won't hear the last of me yet..ill kick till i'm dead.. Cheers Sean

[zordmaker]

Hi Zordmaker, funny that, I noticed your web site a few hours ago and thought man there's a guy with guts *handshake*..It just pisses me right off that people just seem to except things for how they are and not make a stand....for what they believe in... Cheers Sean

Thats the one thing that pissed me off so much. Nobody seemed to give a damn, but they're quite happy to fill our local rags arguing about some stupid kangaroos and leaches on the ADI site down the road. Wonderlan'ds closure is plain wrong and thats that. Its the stuff that Kids movies are made of.. the big bad Ziktor corporation wants to bulldoze their playground and build a big widget factory on it. If everybody remains quiet thats what will happen. And as usual 5 or 10 years later all of Sydney will kick it's own arse and yell "what the f#@$ were we doing?? Now what are we going to do on the weekend??" ZordMaker ZordMaker

[SeanM]

Sorry to change topics, but what's up with Mr Stephen Galbraith?? Everytime I noticed this guy on TV I never saw him "smile?" That's bad moral for the staff and punters...Didn't he enjoy his job?... Maybe someone should of shouted him a Dale Carnegie course in management. “It is better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as sheep.” ITALIAN PROVERB Cheers Sean

[zordmaker]

Sorry to change topics, but what's up with Mr Stephen Galbraith?? Everytime I noticed this guy on TV I never saw him "smile?" That's bad moral for the staff and punters...Didn't he enjoy his job?... Maybe someone should of shouted him a Dale Carnegie course in management. “It is better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as sheep.” ITALIAN PROVERB Cheers Sean

My best is that Stephen is one of the most pissed off employees of all. What makes it worse is that he can't really ashow it until his job is done. It's never a good thing to be the bringer of bad tidings. It's my bet that he was also responsible for the "temporary" Wonderland FAQ that appeared on the night of 26/4 and then vanished 1 night later (a copy of which can be viewed at http://savewonderland.artelex.com) Some time this week Im goign to put up some .AVIs of the news reports from 26/4. ZordMaker

[Richard]

Macquarie Bank effectively owns Dreamworld and are responsible for easily the most capital expenditure ever put into that park in its history. Talk about the faceless corporation royally screwing us all. To reiterate Flea, ING have done absolutely nothing wrong. Even when they've ripped everything out and Wonderland is nothing but a pile of dirt, ING have done absolutely no wrong in aquiring the property and proceeding to develop it. Sunway are the only party in this all that any sane-minded person could hold responsible for what happened. I wouldn't even think there'd be any doubt about that, but evidently there is. Your arguments seem to be fundamentally flawed, by assuming ING is at all at fault in any of this. Also, your first quote wasn't Walt Disney, it was Albert Einstein. Please use appropriate punctuation and grammar when posting at Roller-Coaster.com.au. If you are unsure, consult the Community Guidelines, or ask myself.

[SeanM]

zordmaker, I agree with you 110%, its totally wrong and it wouldn't suprise me if the tv stations were given some nice fat $$$ for so-called tv advertising for some orange lion to prance about..as long as the tv stations try to quiet and dull the news items down..to an acceptable level? maybe i'm just a cynic...? Cheers Sean

[SeanM]

Richard, Yes you are right it was Albert Einstein. Please excuse me.. I lost track in the heat of my thoughts of the big bad Ziktor corporation. Cheers Sean

[Daniel]

ING got a super deal and can't be blamed for pouncing on it. As for Galbraith, he's just a pratt and still has his cozy job with a fat pay check. He doesn't care. Join a credit union and banks aren't an issue.

[Bussy]

All Banks do is just rape and pillaged people and things in the name of corporate dollar$$$....look at the way the US is going. Total greed...nothing more...your really don't believe in all that "propaganda" spread by banks, banks don't care about people... they are totally non-human...

Its called business, like it or not that is how the world works at the moment. People work and get paid, they have to put their money somewhere and where better then a bank. Just because it's a bank doesn't mean they don't have to make a profit, they have shareholders to think of too. There is no way I have never seen a bank get up and 'rape and pillage' people, Soldiers on the other hand....

but they're quite happy to fill our local rags arguing about some stupid kangaroos and leaches on the ADI site down the road.

The ADI site is slightly different to Wonderland, for one it is a large expanse of bushland, something that Sydney has all too little of. Personally I would not live on the ADI site if you paid me too, from what I have heard from people who used to work there when it was a ammunitions base, there are lots of un-exploded shells around and there are a few areas that were used as a toxic dump.

Everytime I noticed this guy on TV I never saw him "smile?" That's bad moral for the staff and punters...Didn't he enjoy his job?...

I don't know about you but the only time I saw Stephen on TV was when he made the closure announcement, hardly the time for him to be smiling and saying how much he loves his job. "The Bus is now leaving for Copper Gone, South Australia"

[zordmaker]

Its called business, like it or not that is how the world works at the moment.  People work and get paid, they have to put their money somewhere and where better then a bank.

That word "Profit" is a good one. The important thing to remember is that there are dozens of other parks around (Dreamworld included) who ARE making money, lots of it. If ING are convinced the problem with Wonderland was mismanagement and that there are possible business opportunities to be had then they'll jump at it and reopen the park (in some form) under a new name, new management and all cashed up. Its already been mentioned here that Maquarie practically owns Dreamworld so investment banks owning theme parks is nothing new. They dont care where the money comes from as long as the land is making a reasonable return for their investment. If in 12 months they think that the whole rezoning issue is becoming a pain and that Wonderland might deserve another go they'll do it I guarantee. They'll put a time limit on it and if it doesnt turn around in (say) 3 years then they'll close it again. But they wont wipe it out until they're sure they have a customer ready to take its place. Thats business. Thats how it works. ING allowed Sunway to close Wonderland because ING did not want Wonderland in it's current form, with all it's baggage, debt and industrial relations awards. If they do anything they'll want to start afresh.

The ADI site is slightly different to Wonderland, for one it is a large expanse of bushland, something that Sydney has all too little of.  Personally I would not live on the ADI site if you paid me too, from what I have heard from people who used to work there when it was a ammunitions base, there are lots of un-exploded shells around and there are a few areas that were used as a toxic dump.

The "toxic waste" was drums of old aircraft instrument dial faces, with low level radioactive paint on them. They were relocated to Lucas Heights in 1996. Yes ADI is very different particularly because the land is still controlled by the Federal Govt. But there is still a large business interest involved - in this case Lend Lease. ZordMaker

[Bussy]

If ING are convinced the problem with Wonderland was mismanagement and that there are possible business opportunities to be had then they'll jump at it and reopen the park (in some form) under a new name, new management and all cashed up.

Why would they bother? Why do they need to be convinced of anything? They bought the land as an investment and expect a good return from it as you have said in my next quote from you.

They dont care where the money comes from as long as the land is making a reasonable return for their investment. If in 12 months they think that the whole rezoning issue is becoming a pain and that Wonderland might deserve another go they'll do it I guarantee. They'll put a time limit on it and if it doesnt turn around in (say) 3 years then they'll close it again.

You have hit the nail on the head there. ING (or any investor) expects a return from their outlay. ING stand to make a bucket load of money from re-zoning the land and sub-dividing it and then either selling the lots or leasing them. Why would they give Wonderland another go? It would cost them a load of money and if they do decide to close it in a few years time that is a lot of money wasted for no return.

ING allowed Sunway to close Wonderland because ING did not want Wonderland in it's current form, with all it's baggage, debt and industrial relations awards. If they do anything they'll want to start afresh.

Wonderland was never for sale in its current form. All of the rides are assets of Sunway and will be kept or sold accordingly. Yes they do want to start afresh, by building an industrial estate on their land. What with the industrial relations awards comment? "The Bus is now leaving for Money Money Waterhole, Queensland"

[zordmaker]

You have hit the nail on the head there.  ING (or any investor) expects a return from their outlay.  ING stand to make a bucket load of money from re-zoning the land and sub-dividing it and then either selling the lots or leasing them.    Why would they give Wonderland another go?  It would cost them a load of money and if they do decide to close it in a few years time that is a lot of money wasted for no return.

The land is already zoned 3C Business. It doesnt need rezoning. But it does need DA approval and thats where they will need to be careful with the pollies. Check ING's portfolio and the way they work. They like building big boxes and leasing them to high profile customers. I don't think they will be chopping up their investment and "selling the farm", thats not what they do. The main reason they bought the land is for capital improvement. They could just sit on it and do nothing.. and when the M7 opens in 2007 they can resell the whole swag for $100m. Kinda gives me satisfaction really. Sunway definitely sold at the wrong time. All business costs money. Building big boxes, roads and infrastructure for a business park costs millions. ING and PacLib will be prepared to spend at least that again ($50m) before their first tenant moves in. Why give WL another go? It depends on what happens over the next 12 months I guess. If the process gets bogged down politically, and the business case for a park in Sydney changes and the numbers add up then of course they will. Cheaper to throw $10m at Wonderland and have it making money than $50m at a business park for which you dont even have a single tenant signed up. Balls in their court.

Wonderland was never for sale in its current form.  All of the rides are assets of Sunway and will be kept or sold accordingly.  Yes they do want to start afresh, by building an industrial estate on their land.  What with the industrial relations awards comment?

Documentary evidence is unclear on that. The two docs available (from which the press have drawn their stories) suggest the entire park (including all assets) have been sold to ING, but ING "entered into an agreement which allows for removal of the rides from the park". Basically this means Sunway will wind the park up but with the proceeds going to ING. This arrangement is not uncommon in business as it removes the risk element for the incumbent seller, i.e. Sunway have their money "up front" and ING will make a bit back from their $52.5m when the rides are sold. No doubt about it ING did get a good deal. Of course ING are within their right simply to reserve a number of assets on the site and withhold them from sale if they so wish.. forgoing the income they may have gained from the sale. By doing this, ING have effectively set things up so they can have their pickings of the site instead of being handed a working park with which they would have to deal with all the industrial relations crap of winding it up themselves. Industrial relations : all the Wonderland workers were in different awards, some state, some Federal. In some cases (in particular for the maintenance workers) there were completely unique awards brokered with unions and in force from as far back as the '80s. Alot of these were very inflexible and biased heavily in the workers' favour. By closing the park these awards have been nullified. If they reopen it again, it will be on a completely new IR slate. ZordMaker

[DanielB]

bankers are like cockroaches...they all should be shot..period

PERIOD???? What the hell? ?!? Are you an American or do you just like to act American? Here in Australia we say "Full Stop". Daniel

[Flea]

How about "Fully Sick Stop"? He was just making a point, Daniel. No need to get fussed about something so small. Period.

[joz]

wow, I'm must be an Aussie, I actually say "Full Stop" in coversation

[Scared of Jack]

I must admit it would be good to see wonderland sydney open, but definately with different management. ING cant be blamed for buying wonderlands land, its not their fault. If you want support I honestly think you are not going to get it. But if you want to voice your opinions or grievances Im telling you guys write to the papers ring up 2UE and speak to Ray Hadley. Its too late now, but if your going to do it it needs everyones support not just a few people. Ive got a few contacts as well in the newspaper side of things. As for Mr Galbraith (Stephen), he is just a goof who wouldnt know how to manage a theme park if his life depended on it. All he was good for was treating his staff (cast members) like a piece of crap. I dont think he knows how to smile. But i could just imagine the smile on his face when he recieved the fax from Miss Z a few years back ha ha ha ha ha .

[Daniel]

Would have been an interesting fax indeed Jacky Wouldn't mind a bo-peep myself just quietly. hehe. Don't go ringing 2UE for Bolts. You won't find him there. 2GB instead.

[SeanM]

DanielB, "Full Stop"... I hope your happy now! "anyways" back to work..hehe Scared of Jack, I take it that Ray Hadley is a pro-wonderland fan? Cheers Sean

[Daniel]

Lets just say he's discussed it on his program with an ex-staff member before No it wasn't me.

[Scared of Jack]

oops me did a boo boo. sorry guys it was 2GB not 2UE. Put it this way, Ray Hadley would of stuck it right up them! Hey dan! That fax would of been interesting wouldnt it, shame it got to the receptionist first before stephen galbraith ha ha ha ha