Will DC Rivals Hypercoaster further erode Dreamworld's attendance?

[XxMrYoshixX]

33 minutes ago, Original said:

I think their way back is wiping out the TRR & Mine Ride, move the vintage cars up to that area, convert the whole area to one consistent theme, I like the idea of early colonial Australia. But do it ASAP. Plus add a Windseeker, it would be impressive and get something in quick. 

While I like the idea of early colonial Australia as a theme, it could be controversial with the PC warrior folks as it would depict their favourite thing - Australia's history, and this reaction could have a harmful effect on DW's PR. If they get triggered over Australia Day, then they would lose their minds at this. The Gold Rush idea passed through with no controversy - because there were no such things as SJWs in 1986. Simpler times...

Also, if Ardent bought DW a Windseeker, the theme park enthusiast community would universally facepalm. Cedar Fair bought a Windseeker for each of their large parks, and judging by their constant breakdowns they are very unreliable rides. I'd go with Funtime up the road for a Star Flyer. I'm surprised there hasn't been a permanent installation of a Star Flyer in Australia yet. Six Flags is installing one of these every year, and it has worked out well for them, unlike the larger windseeker.

Edited June 6, 2017 by XxMrYoshixX

[Original]

Unfortunately, these days the PC police get involved too often. Google Gold Rush and racism in Australia and the fact that the Victorian Government have apologised to the Chinese for racist policies during this period. 

I'm envisioning it something similiar to Silver Dollar City, Dollywood or parts of Knotts Berry Farm. Adding some unique elements as well like glass blowing, blacksmith, driving the Model T Fords. Imagine a horse drawn Cobb & Co. carriage people could ride down the main thoroughfare, the gold rush was just one small part of Australia's early history, I love the idea of the old Bushranger show coming back in some way.

Yes, I'm aware of the initial problems of the Windseeker's and that Knotts had there's relocated. However, they were essentially first of their kind prototypes and Mondial seem to have ironed out the bugs now, I haven't read anything bad on them in a while, granted I'm not frequenting American forums all that often. I wouldn't think they're breaking down anymore than say Storm does. 

Fact is though, if DW sit around and do nothing in the next 12-18 months then VRTP I feel will have a jump so big on them it will very difficult to come back from. People will just think 'since that accident, there's nothing new there. I don't want to visit a place like that. Not with these new shiny thing the opposition has'

Edited June 6, 2017 by Original

[rac2703]

Is it just me, or is the poll attached to this thread more useless than most? - every option is essentially a "maybe"

I don't think that the hypercoaster will do very much damage to the already slipping attendance. If anything it may help, this coaster will attract interstate visitors who will already be familiar with Dreamworld, many of whom would probably be willing to add an extra day their trip to visit Dreamworld whilst their already here.

[iwerks]

^ Spot on. Yeah, I definitely think you need a new attraction to get people coming back, and they don't need to spend as much as a new Hypercoaster. Just an attraction of good quality for DW's target market. I'd love to see a dark ride.

[Theme Park Girl]

8 hours ago, pushbutton said:

I think it's good that each park focuses on different types of attractions. I wouldn't want Dreamworld to be basically a copy of Movie World. 

I think the recent statement by Dreamworld that they intend to focus on offering "experiences that stay with you" rather than thrills, is potentially on the right path. Just depends on them making sure those new experiences are of high enough quality to impress their target customers enough that they'll go to Dreamworld in preference to Movie World. 

In other words, not everyone thinks a rollercoaster is the best type of theme park attraction, and if Dreamworld creates new rides and other attractions that appeal to those people who don't, then they should be able to secure those people as long-term customers.

100% agree with this, and I completely disagree with the concept of Dreamworld adding a major rollercoaster or thrill ride of any time at this still early stage of their recovery.  

After seeing the list of what they have. planned for the remainder of the year, I think it's fantastic that, after nearly two decades of Dreamworld focusing on exhilarating rides (ie. building up their "Big" thrill ride repertoire), they are finally going back to their roots to explore and resurrect various aspects of the park that made everyone fall in love with them to begin with.

Anyone who knew the "old" Dreamworld back in the 80's and early 90's would know that "big, fast, twisty, full circuit record breaking rollercoasters" weren't really their forte at all. sure, they did have one of those on offer with the Thunderbolt, but the whole theme of the park was mainly focused around family rides and creating a vintage, natural look park wide.

This is essentially what people loved about Dreamworld, especially compared to other parks during this timeframe. It had a certain charm to it that no other gold coast theme park could match. 

It's no secret that the incident last year has made guests more cautious toward Dreamworld's rides as a whole and, subsequently, it appears to me that their managers have acknowledged that the path to recovery isn't to focus on building more thrill rides that people aren't going to immediately warm to, given the circumstances. Instead they are taking the path of appealing to people's nostalgia and planning to bring back old favourite family rides (Log Ride, Vintage Cars, even the Mine Ride), refurbishing the original wildlife and indigenous areas, and focusing on introducing new memorable experiences that leave lasting memories as opposed to (quote)  "momentary exhilaration" ie. the definition of thrill rides. 

Personally I think that Dreamworld are taking a huge step in the right direction with these future plans. Thrill rides can come later down the track once they have managed to completely win everyone's hearts and trust back, and essentially restore their original daily park numbers once more. But now is definitely not that time. Fact. (😛) 

Just my 2c, take it or leave it. But that's how I feel 👍

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Your point is valid, but at the same time, if they don't offer a competing product, they will lose market share to VRTP.

Many people (both here and on social media) have referenced the fact that they switch between annual passes from year to year, and many are due for a DW pass this year, but have stated that they intend to keep their VRTP pass due to the hyper.

Unless DW offers something more than 'charm' and the rebirthing of pre-existing ride experiences - they won't get the visitation needed to sustain themselves for the next 18-24 months.

Nobody is going to spend big on a thrill ride if their current revenue pattern continues. They need to spend it now, while they still have it.

[SHOOKETH]

8 hours ago, Theme Park Girl said:

100% agree with this, and I completely disagree with the concept of Dreamworld adding a major rollercoaster or thrill ride of any time at this still early stage of their recovery.  

After seeing the list of what they have. planned for the remainder of the year, I think it's fantastic that, after nearly two decades of Dreamworld focusing on exhilarating rides (ie. building up their "Big" thrill ride repertoire), they are finally going back to their roots to explore and resurrect various aspects of the park that made everyone fall in love with them to begin with.

Anyone who knew the "old" Dreamworld back in the 80's and early 90's would know that "big, fast, twisty, full circuit record breaking rollercoasters" weren't really their forte at all. sure, they did have one of those on offer with the Thunderbolt, but the whole theme of the park was mainly focused around family rides and creating a vintage, natural look park wide.

This is essentially what people loved about Dreamworld, especially compared to other parks during this timeframe. It had a certain charm to it that no other gold coast theme park could match. 

It's no secret that the incident last year has made guests more cautious toward Dreamworld's rides as a whole and, subsequently, it appears to me that their managers have acknowledged that the path to recovery isn't to focus on building more thrill rides that people aren't going to immediately warm to, given the circumstances. Instead they are taking the path of appealing to people's nostalgia and planning to bring back old favourite family rides (Log Ride, Vintage Cars, even the Mine Ride), refurbishing the original wildlife and indigenous areas, and focusing on introducing new memorable experiences that leave lasting memories as opposed to (quote)  "momentary exhilaration" ie. the definition of thrill rides. 

Personally I think that Dreamworld are taking a huge step in the right direction with these future plans. Thrill rides can come later down the track once they have managed to completely win everyone's hearts and trust back, and essentially restore their original daily park numbers once more. But now is definitely not that time. Fact. (😛) 

Just my 2c, take it or leave it. But that's how I feel 👍

I don't agree with this at all, i'm sorry. The market TODAY is so so different to the market back in the 80's when Dreamworld launched. First of all, Dreamworld only had to compete with Sea World and it's main competitor today (Movie World) was still a decade off launching. Second of all, people back then didn't have the expectations they do today. It was such a huge thing to even have the Thunderbolt back then. I remember in the early 90s, when I was a small child, driving past DW and being in awe of the Thunderbolt from the highway and always wishing I could go on it. Thirdly, there is a huge reason why DW went the way of the 'big thrill rides' as their park stared to evolve; they saw the market changing and they realised they needed to keep adding these type of attractions to grow their business and keep existing customers coming back. Your point about "appealing to people's nostalgia and planning to bring back old favourite family rides" is really only going to appeal to parents who went to DW as children. No one under the age of 25 will care about that "nostalgia" at all unfortunately and I certainly think it could be in vain if they spend big money trying to bring back these rides that have far less appeal in today's market than they did when they launched. My two cents.

[SHOOKETH]

I found the perfect ride for DW.

It's new at "Movie Park Germany" which looks like it also has a ride like Bermuda Triangle from SW in the background.

 

[Theme Park Girl]

Lol... you do realise that Dreamworld was based on Disneyland to begin with, right? Family rides, vintage charm and lush gardens etc.... all Disney inspired.

If the market has allegedly changed, then why do Disneyland parks remain the most popular chain in the world??

No offense but I think you need to pull your head out a bit, POP.... Dreamworld aren't going to make a comeback taking the Six Flags approach right now. They are looking at the best of the best for inspiration, which appeals to ALL ages and generations, not just the thrillseekers.   

And good on them, I say 👍

[Santa07]

Why are we even engaging with POP anymore, can someone just run an IP check against him and then ban him when it does return the same as POP's.

Dreamworld's best interests at the moment are to focus on the family audience, whether they do that by building a dark ride, new experience, or a simple but well-themed family coaster, I think that's what they should be focusing on (and by the plans that were revealed, they certainly seem to be going in that direction). Focus on family rides for the next few years, then they can consider putting in a big RMC 5 years down the track when they've gained back a bit of the "old Dreamworld" feel. Fighting MW's coaster with something similar just isn't going to work at this point in time.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Disneyland has changed immensely since opening though. The park didn't have a single coaster when it opened.

The flip side is that Disney's "family" attractions are enjoyable whether or not you have the nostalgia factor. Eureka without the nostalgia would just be a painful, cramped ride comparable to any carnival ghost train. Rocky Hollow isn't anything special either. If it were Splash Mountain quality - sure. Popularity away! But it isn't. There is no charm to Rocky hollow.

I think to point to Disney as a reason why the 'experience' path will work for Dreamworld is quite foolish.

 

[rac2703]

1 minute ago, AlexB said:

Eureka without the nostalgia would just be a painful, cramped ride comparable to any carnival ghost train.

Like the Matterhorn

[Theme Park Girl]

15 minutes ago, AlexB said:

I think to point to Disney as a reason why the 'experience' path will work for Dreamworld is quite foolish.

That's not what I'm doing at all, though. I'm simply using Disney as an example as why I believe that the park changing their direction back to their roots is a good idea, given that Disneyland is the park they originally based Dreamworld around. And why I also agree that reopening more of their old family rides (along with the rebuild of a old one), improving their current areas, adding new experiences and doing everything they currently have planned AS A WHOLE is a great prospective for the park. 

Speaking as someone who visits Dreamworld on a weekly basis, witnesses visitors reactions first hand, overhears their opinions and regularly speaks to staff about numerous aspects, I don't believe the reason why attendances are down is because they don't have new rollercoaster plans to boast about. It's actually because half of their current attractions are closed, some of them for long periods of time.

They need to get back on their feet, reopen and improve on what they have before they look at adding anything new. That alone will bring people back. They can focus on bigger stuff later 👍

Edited June 7, 2017 by Theme Park Girl

[rac2703]

Nostalgia is one thing that Dreamworld has over Movie World though, they should use it to their advantage.

Many of Disneyland's rides rely heavily on the nostalgia factor, what are Dumbo's flying elephants or Alice's teacups without nostalgia, just dressed up carnival rides, yet they are iconic rides of the park. Would Disney really open a Small World in every one of its parks if it wasn't for the nostalgia factor? I doubt it. 

[Richard]

2 hours ago, Santa07 said:

Why are we even engaging with POP anymore, can someone just run an IP check against him and then ban him when it does return the same as POP's.

Because we're not megalomaniacs that just want to throw bans and punishment around despite otherwise interesting discussion.

Pretty sick of the backseat moderating and witch-hunt that everyone seems to be engaging in here.

This a thought-provoking topic backed up with well reasoned opinions and facts. It's totally worthy of discussion. Keep your conspiracy theories to yourselves, and if you're posting replies or hitting that downvote button based on anything other than what's being discussed in this topic, then maybe take a break from Parkz for a few days because it's obviously all too much for you.

[Gazza]

I dunno why there is negativity around the statement that bringing back old attractions is not necessarily a good move. There's a bit of truth it.

You can't simultaneously bag members like Pushbutton for wanting classic attractions, then advocate for it here.

Id agree that Eureka wouldn't be as good as you remembered.

Heck even when it was open I thought it Scoobys poor cousin.

[pushbutton]

Thanks for the support Gazza, although I don't actually want "classic" attractions really (unless they happen to also be great modern ones)!

[joz]

Really I think the issue is how long they're willing to sit on Dreamworld performing poorly.  This year was always going to be a write off, and it's looking like next year probably will be too.  I think this year the priority needs to be making the park feel 'open' and 'complete' again.  Demolishing TRRR and using that land, along with reopening Rocky Hollow will help immensely in that regard.  

 

Next year they need something new to market, and it needs to do whatever it does well.  There's talk of Vintage cars being moved and improved this year, that'll help the park feel open and complete, but it won't help attract people.  No gimmicky flat ride, no upgrade of something they've already got, they need a good solid new ride next year.  People have suggested a Eurofighter, yeah that could work, as could a modern Shoot the Chutes or a really good dark ride.  I think they just need to decide what they want to attract and go for it.  One good thing about the Hyper for Dreamworld is it's kind of 'broken the ice' in terms of new thrill rides on the Gold Coast; I don't think Dreamworld could've done a thrill ride this year, they totally can next year.  I also don't think they have to beat it, they just need to do something different.

 

As for nostalgia, of course they should play on it.  You can't do nostalgia at the expense of everything else, but reminding people why they liked the place so much to begin with is obviously a good move.  Parents who are old enough to get the nostalgia also have a pretty big say on where the family spends the day out.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

6 minutes ago, joz said:

a modern Shoot the Chutes

TBH, I think DW will avoid anything in that vein for a long time. For one, its not too dissimilar to Rocky Hollow (we know it is, but to the public, it's rocky hollow with bigger boats) and its similar enough to TRRR that, IMO, it would be classed as 'ten foot pole' material.

[Ninja]

Dreamworld market themselves as home of the "big 9" thrill rides. It's laughable. Imo Giant Drop is the only world class ride out the so called big 9 and I think the gp are starting to catch on and realise the best thrills are just down the highway. 

 

Movie World destroys them in ride quality. Dreamworld although much larger feels like a tired run down mish mash carnival set up. Everything feels half arsed, and if the downturn after the TRR tragedy wasn't bad enough, this new hyper will be another devastating blow.

Imo Dreamworld is in real trouble 

 

[joz]

With all the respect I can muster, I think both of those arguments are bogus.  Take these 2 examples:

 

Both very different to Rocky Hollow, both very different in experience and appearance to TRRR, and can be marketed as Modern and safe while filling a hole in the park's line up.  I'm not saying they need to add a ride like the above, my point is that 2 years on (which it'll be by the time a new ride opens), they could build a ride like this, and have it be a draw.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I agree, they COULD, but WOULD they? Or would they build a 2-bit version of it that would have every hallmark of the two aforementioned?

I take your point, but i don't think Dreamworld could execute it to the standard you're suggesting - which they'd need to in order to avoid the comparison.

Anything with water and mechanics involved would be a risk, and something I would think the park would avoid for a long time, but i can appreciate your point of view.

[Gazza]

I vote for the Pulsar clone Joz 🤣

DW could become more like Walibi Belgium....A collection of shuttle coasters and rough coasters.

(That said, Pulsar is kinda cool)

[joz]

Yeah but the point of that part of my post was to list some arbitrary things they COULD build to have something to market next year.  I don't think they'll build a Eurofighter or a new dark ride either.  My point was that no matter what it is they want to build, pretty much they can and they need to back themselves and do something really good and it needs to be done by Christmas next year.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Agreed. The 18 month window seems to be the consensus.