Backwards row - DC Rivals HyperCoaster

[New display name]

3 hours ago, Gazza said:

Yeah, if youre wishing for new coasters, why not the ultimate goal of getting one of each type in this country?

Its not like parks overseas solely compete with each other by just building hypers and more hypers.

@Gazza if MW are not competing with any other Hypercoaster in Australia why does MW think it is worthwhile to gimmick up Australia’s first Hypercoaster by turning 2 seats around and reduce the capacity of the ride?  Does MW really think that people are going to say “Oh. I didn't want to ride a Hyper before but now I do because I can go backward”

Edited June 9, 2017 by Skeeta

[Gazza]

No need to of course, but it's still that few percent extra, like adding a non standard helix at the end of your SLC, or adding a dark ride before your 0-100 launch.

Both of those coasters would have been almost as good without those things, but adding extras just pushes you over the top.

I think the backwards seats just add even more awe to an already awesome ride, and capture a certain group of people who want even more.

Nothing wrong with going above and beyond to wow your audience.....Did you notice how they did it as a kicker at the end of the trailer. People would have been sold on the ride before they even mentioned the backwards aspect.

Its like how Steve Jobs used to do that "One more thing" at the end of his Keynote addresses.

[GoGoBoy]

4 hours ago, Gazza said:

Both of those coasters would have been almost as good without those things, but adding extras just pushes you over the top.

Nothing wrong with going above and beyond to wow your audience.....Did you notice how they did it as a kicker at the end of the trailer.

And this has been VRTP's strategy for a long time, and it's darn impressive. Not only do they build the best attractions in Australia, they continually push the manufacturers to go one step further. It creates really unique quality products. They don't have to do it, but they continually over deliver.

[XxMrYoshixX]

14 hours ago, Gazza said:

Both of those coasters would have been almost as good without those things, but adding extras just pushes you over the top.

Remember, VRTP has always worked with manufacturers to make rides that are different to other rides of their type. For Superman, this was adding the dark ride section, for Arkham, adding a helix at the end, for Scooby Doo, having elaborate theming, and an elevator lift instead of a lift hill, and for Green Lantern, this was the 4 abreast seating and onboard audio. Likewise, for this it is the backwards seating and the Joker face on the top of the lift hill, features never seen before on any hyper. You could argue that the log flume sections of Storm are created specifically for SW.

These little features that you call "gimmicks" are what separates the rides from MW from other rides of their type & manufacturer, and in many cases improves them. Our tiny Superman, for example, ranked highly in the old Mitch Hawker polls, ranking near rides such as Nemesis, Phantom's Revenge, and Blue Fire, and Scooby Doo was the highest-ranking wild mouse on the polls.

[Gazza]

I see two things at work.

You have the basic full ride that you market, and get people into the park.

Then on top of that, you add special features that don't necessarily help with the initial pitch, but what they do is leave a good impression on riders that they can tell all their friends about etc, or encourages them to come back because they liked it so much.

One I was thinking about was the enclosed barrel roll on Abyss. AFAIK its not mentioned anywhere on their promotional material, but would be a cool suprise in the dark for first time riders. And it wouldn't have been a cheap feature, but makes a good impression.

[AllegroCrab]

16 hours ago, XxMrYoshixX said:

Remember, VRTP has always worked with manufacturers to make rides that are different to other rides of their type. For Superman, this was adding the dark ride section, for Arkham, adding a helix at the end, for Scooby Doo, having elaborate theming, and an elevator lift instead of a lift hill, and for Green Lantern, this was the 4 abreast seating and onboard audio. Likewise, for this it is the backwards seating and the Joker face on the top of the lift hill, features never seen before on any hyper. You could argue that the log flume sections of Storm are created specifically for SW.

These little features that you call "gimmicks" are what separates the rides from MW from other rides of their type & manufacturer, and in many cases improves them. Our tiny Superman, for example, ranked highly in the old Mitch Hawker polls, ranking near rides such as Nemesis, Phantom's Revenge, and Blue Fire, and Scooby Doo was the highest-ranking wild mouse on the polls.

I agree with mostly everything, but the things you mention for all those other rides are not gimmicks, they're fundamental parts of the ride.

Making an entire ride and then turning one row of seats backwards is a gimmick.

It's probably just the coaster nerd inside of me who's resistant to change and having a pointless whinge, but it really feels wrong having a coaster that looks so brilliant by itself trying so hard to make itself look better.

Bitch you already perfect <3

[Ninja]

6 hours ago, AllegroCrab said:

I agree with mostly everything, but the things you mention for all those other rides are not gimmicks, they're fundamental parts of the ride.

Making an entire ride and then turning one row of seats backwards is a gimmick.

It's probably just the coaster nerd inside of me who's resistant to change and having a pointless whinge, but it really feels wrong having a coaster that looks so brilliant by itself trying so hard to make itself look better.

Bitch you already perfect <3

I don't understand why you're against the backwards facing row? Its not as if it does nothing, it adds a completely different experience to the ride. Just like the joker head at the top of the lift hill it's something innovative and gives the coaster it's own unique identity. They haven't really compromised anything on the operation of the ride to add this feature so what's the problem? As Gazza mentioned there's nothing wrong with going above and beyond to wow your audience. 

It's like complaining about the lottery giving you 2 million instead of 1.5 million. *confused look*

[rappa]

Yeah I don't get all the back row anger. If you don't like it just done ride in the backwards row. It will in no way affect your time in the house. 

 

**note if any idiot decides they feel the need to pedantically point out that it affects 2 people per cycle capacity so it does affect them I will ban you for one week 

[New display name]

@djrappa You’re a tosser.

Don’t forget to add it’s a "cheap-ass" way of doing it gimmick that affects 2 people per cycle capacity.

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Skeeta

[Whombex]

To play devil's advocate for a sec, if MW have bought the ride with two rear facing seats per train. They would have known the exact capacity and have intentionally gone ahead with this configuration.

We are likely to see four queues. I agree with other above, people who don't care about front/back etc will just get in the general line, or the shortest line.

 

It's going to be okay. Morning rides in November during school days will see short enough queues. Outside of that, until Feb 18, you'll just have to deal with it. It's potentially a top ten coaster, we're going to have to expect lines..

[AllegroCrab]

I'm expecting MW's operations to be slow enough anyway that it makes no difference.

I know how illogical my argument against the back row is, it's an argument of feelings not thoughts.

[Slick]

This reminds of when VR got added to Arkham Asylum. Folks went into an over-analytical nose-dive about how this would be the end of Arkham Asylum's capacity. Here's a shocker though (pun intended), it really didn't change, the world kept spinning, everyone here loves VR and now six months later we're finding a new thing to whinge about.

Honestly, how this is a thing is beyond me.

For those who just can't shake the thought of backwards seats, here's a two step guide on how to deal with it.

Dealing with backwards seating: A Guide

Step 1) Ignore it and go about your day.
Step 2) If you're still worried about it and the fact that it may make your wait-time longer, set your alarm earlier and get to Movie World before everyone else.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I'd have liked to have seen it done differently, but after discussing the issue exhaustively off-board, I can completely understand why it is the way that it is.

There are other benefits to this too that haven't been considered. I'm of mixed feelings about it, and I look forward to pages of debate in a few months.

[rappa]

22 hours ago, Skeeta said:

@djrappa You’re a tosser.

Don’t forget to add it’s a "cheap-ass" way of doing it gimmick that affects 2 people per cycle capacity.

 

Did you need a black pot to go with your kettle mate?

Just get over your buthurt about two friken seats on a train. Who cares. Stop flogging the issue that no sane person should possibly care about. 

 

How do you know the train wasn't going to be 2 seats shorter and they in fact ADDEDD capacity for backwards. 

[Reanimated35]

Speaking of the train, any word on if there's any "big boy" seats?

Thought more people would be complaining about the lack of them rather than the backwards ones. 

[rappa]

Yeah I'm kinda in the camp of if you're too big to fit on the ride, maybe riding coasters shouldn't be your priority right now. 

[Reanimated35]

True, but it's 2017 and people bitch and moan about everything and always look to blame others. 

I wasn't able to find any info on what constitutes a "big boy" seat though. Any ideas? 

Also big "boy"?!?!?! Why not big "girl"?!?! Or big "person"?!?!?! I'm offended!

/2017rant

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

2017 still has more than 6 months to provide you with new things to bitch about... might want to hold off on / that rant for a little while... lol.

[jake_hunt]

How will this in any way affect loading time, though? Sure, the queue for the backwards seats will probably take a while, affecting those in that queue. But those are the people who actively chose to wait longer to ride the thing backwards. I don't imagine it takes any longer than usual to buckle people into a backwards-facing seat, so if you don't ride it backwards, that "gimmick" as you call it won't affect you.

A gimmick, though? It's a unique aspect. As people have said, every ride that VRTP build goes above and beyond to make sure it is distinguishable from others around the world, and not just a basic clone of every other ride of its type. The added helix to an SLC, the elevator lift and extensive theming on a Wild Mouse, the four-abreast seating on an El Toro... And now one backwards row on a hyper. It will not affect capacity, the only thing it will affect is there will be one line of people who have to wait longer to ride it backwards. By the sounds of things, the people complaining won't ride it backwards, and therefore it DOESN'T AFFECT YOU.

And besides, it adds a whole new ride experience to the same coaster. I'm keen to go and ride forwards for my first ever hyper. But then, once I've ridden it a few times and already had the experience, I have the option to do it backwards. Different experience, different thrills. Two for one. Why are people complaining? Who gives a sh*t if it's gimmicky - it's clever, it's unique, it's a world-first and it's going to draw crowds and be incredible.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

@jake_hunt - i think the theory here is that they've taken a carriage, seating four, and reversed it, seating two - so the argument is that per cycle, four front facing seats are missing, and in exchange, only two rear facing seats are available, but with a separate queue.

Now the flip side argument to that is - how do you know that they didn't ADD a carriage to do the reverse, instead of dropping the four front facing seats - and its a fair counter argument until you look at the station designs that have been posted, showing air gates that accommodate 24 (which makes backwards facing seem a bit like an afterthought-concept to make this coaster even more unique than it already is!)

So I think the majority of butthurt is instead of a 24 capacity, its 22, so 2pp cycle, or 40 or so per hour (cbf doing the math but its not a big number either way), and then because rear facing is a separate queue, the general (front face) queue loses another 2 to a separate queue... but its all relative... because otherwise those rear facing people would be in the front facing queue anyway.

the four queue lanes look like we'll see a dedicated single rider line (unless they do a 'front row' \ pole position queue separately) - so that should speed things up a bit - nothing like waiting for a single rider to make their way up 3 ramps whilst the train is waiting in the station (such as superman)! I think its good to see the park investing in single rider options - first doomsday, now DCR.

Edited June 12, 2017 by AlexB

[pin142]

12 hours ago, Reanimated35 said:

Speaking of the train, any word on if there's any "big boy" seats?

Thought more people would be complaining about the lack of them rather than the backwards ones. 

This is Australia not America, if some Americans do come over here and have issues fitting then they should look at blaming themselves and not the manufacturer for not accommodating their body "shape". Maybe the fourth queue line is a walk of shame line.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I have noticed some new ride restraints are a lot less accommodating than they used to be - Doomsday is a perfect example.

[Richard]

On 6/12/2017 at 11:43 AM, AlexB said:

So I think the majority of butthurt is instead of a 24 capacity, its 22, so 2pp cycle, or 40 or so per hour

To build on this point, consider that VRTP likes to check and re-check harnesses. That loss of two seats would likely save a conservative 5 or 10 seconds per dispatch; that could well equate to an additional 2-4 cycles an hour.

As counter-intuitive as it is, the net result of one less row could be the same or even greater hourly throughput.

[pazzap]

i think it's a good idea.. the next row will still have the typical back seat airtime on drops, and the very back reverse seat should be a crazy experience on that first drop.. I'm quite happy with this.. 

[mba2012]

6 hours ago, Richard said:

To build on this point, consider that VRTP likes to check and re-check harnesses. That loss of two seats would likely save a conservative 5 or 10 seconds per dispatch; that could well equate to an additional 2-4 cycles an hour.

As counter-intuitive as it is, the net result of one less row could be the same or even greater hourly throughput.

Don't worry, maybe they'll make it up by loading them separately. 

Edited June 13, 2017 by mba2012