Government meeting with theme park company

[Santa07]

47 minutes ago, Flynn_Smith said:

And where did you hear this? Last I heard they don't have enough money, so they just give everyone a Free-Fly and a couple of Dark Rides 

Six Flags Dubai is scheduled to open in 2019, and Six Flags certainly aren't short of money any more. 2017 wasn't the best year, but 2018 is shaping up to be a fantastic year with SFFT's Raptor already confirmed, SFOG most likely getting an RMC hybrid, and that's in addition to one or two more possible freespins.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Santa07

[Slick]

It's also worth noting that building is far different from operating or branding. In a lot of cases (like Village's foray into trying to building a park in China) investment/capital firms will pay for the initial build and companies like Six Flags will oversee operations. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

On 05/08/2017 at 0:07 PM, Slick said:

what Disney would describe as their biggest failure in the chain.

Are you only talking about magic kingdom style parks? Because DCA was quite a failure.

Paris\Euro\Whatever they're calling it these days has also been an epic failure for a long time.

I'll agree they stuffed up with their park planning - they scoped locals who all favoured 'experiences' over thrills (cough, dreamworld, cough), and so they built an experience based park with minimal thrills. Of course, Hong Kong being such a tourism destination, the tourists who came didn't like the thrill-lacking park - which they've set about fixing up with their existing expansions and plans to expand more - but although it hasn't been as profitable as hoped, I don't think you can call HKDL the biggest failure in the chain.

When I went in 2010, they were practically giving the park away, and the associated hotels. After booking a two-person flight and accom deal, we added a third person for $1 more - but on our return in 2015, room rates, park entry and anything with the mouse on it was charged at a premium. The Park was crazy busy, and popular. Whilst it was a slow start, HK isn't the flop many thought it would be.

I still regard Paris as being the worst in the group.

[Theme Park]

 

2 hours ago, AlexB said:

Are you only talking about magic kingdom style parks? Because DCA was quite a failure.

Paris\Euro\Whatever they're calling it these days has also been an epic failure for a long time.

Epcot was also rather disappointing when it first had opened, not to mention disneyland paris's second gate Walt's Hollywood Studio's still struggles and is often regarded as Disney's worst park. 

[XxMrYoshixX]

I'm getting relatively sick of the "DISNEY IS COMING TO AUSTRALIA" people popping up on the forum over the 3 years I've been here. Disney building a park on the Gold Coast, let alone Australia, would make little economic or business sense.

One of the things that puts off big theme park companies setting up on the Gold Coast is the small population of the area itself. Even if you add Brisbane and the rest of South East Queensland to the number, it still adds up to less than 4 million. 

The two theme parks that Disney consider as their smallest parks, Hong Kong and Paris, both have population counts close to 7 million in their city metro areas. For those that don't know, Paris, despite it being open for 25 years, has never made a profit. Hong Kong, while it had a slow start, is picking up steam in recent years, with aggressive expansion (and a gigantic expansion plan in the years to come, including replacing half of Tomorrowland with Marvel attractions, a Frozen land, and a Moana area.)

While the Gold Coast's tourism revenue is high for Australia, in comparison to other cities that Disney parks are built in, it is miniscule. Take a look at Paris and Hong Kong, for example.

Paris, while tourism is declining greatly, is still among the world's most visited cities. The tourism revenue from Paris alone consists 7% of France's GDP, which in 2016 was 2.465 trillion USD, which equals about 3.1 trillion AUD, meaning the tourism revenue of Paris that year was $21.7 billion.

Hong Kong's tourism is also quite strong, accounting for 5% of its GDP, which was 320.9 billion USD, or 405 billion AUD, meaning that the tourism revenue of Hong Kong was around $20 billion.

By comparison, the Gold Coast's tourism revenue is tipped to reach just $7 billion by 2020. While impressive, it is tiny in comparison to the cities where Disney want to set up in.

That's why Disney won't be coming to Australia - for a while. Just my 2c.

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by XxMrYoshixX

[rappa]

9 hours ago, AlexB said:

Are you only talking about magic kingdom style parks? Because DCA was quite a failure.

Paris\Euro\Whatever they're calling it these days has also been an epic failure for a long time.

I'll agree they stuffed up with their park planning - they scoped locals who all favoured 'experiences' over thrills (cough, dreamworld, cough), and so they built an experience based park with minimal thrills. Of course, Hong Kong being such a tourism destination, the tourists who came didn't like the thrill-lacking park - which they've set about fixing up with their existing expansions and plans to expand more - but although it hasn't been as profitable as hoped, I don't think you can call HKDL the biggest failure in the chain.

When I went in 2010, they were practically giving the park away, and the associated hotels. After booking a two-person flight and accom deal, we added a third person for $1 more - but on our return in 2015, room rates, park entry and anything with the mouse on it was charged at a premium. The Park was crazy busy, and popular. Whilst it was a slow start, HK isn't the flop many thought it would be.

I still regard Paris as being the worst in the group.

Least neither are as big a failure as Wonderland

right @AlexB?

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Not sure the relevance - but I guess since HKDL isn't yet as old as Wonderland, the jury is still out. (although clearly Disney isn't going to have the same end, i'm just being argumentative for the sake of it)

Wonderland's failure was not of the park's making or design, it was a lack of new investment by the new owners who were set on milking it's profits to prop their local properties. (Shit that sounds familiar *cough* ardent *cough*).

 Theres a lot more to it that I can't go into, but the park was profitable... even with a stagnated \ lack of new attractions, it still turned a profit (call it captive audience if you like).

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by AlexB

[bladex]

hope it is six flags with dw nearly near death we need another theme park.

[Aw hype]

On 07/08/2017 at 8:07 AM, AlexB said:

Are you only talking about magic kingdom style parks? Because DCA was quite a failure.

Paris\Euro\Whatever they're calling it these days has also been an epic failure for a long time.

I'll agree they stuffed up with their park planning - they scoped locals who all favoured 'experiences' over thrills (cough, dreamworld, cough), and so they built an experience based park with minimal thrills. Of course, Hong Kong being such a tourism destination, the tourists who came didn't like the thrill-lacking park - which they've set about fixing up with their existing expansions and plans to expand more - but although it hasn't been as profitable as hoped, I don't think you can call HKDL the biggest failure in the chain.

When I went in 2010, they were practically giving the park away, and the associated hotels. After booking a two-person flight and accom deal, we added a third person for $1 more - but on our return in 2015, room rates, park entry and anything with the mouse on it was charged at a premium. The Park was crazy busy, and popular. Whilst it was a slow start, HK isn't the flop many thought it would be.

I still regard Paris as being the worst in the group.

Exactly what I found in regards to HKDL. The only semi-thrilling ride was RC racer. IMO I much rather enjoyed ocean park, as they cater for both thrill and family. HKDL was more of a 5 hour park, whereas ocean park was a whole day, or even 2. That's where, imo, HKDL has gone WRONG

[rappa]

I actually really enjoyed HKDL and this was before the major E-Tickets it's received since opening. 

 

I think many people miss the concept of just enjoying park atmosphere (mostly because our parks have little to none) without being entertained by an attraction 99% of the time. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

12 hours ago, Aw hype said:

Exactly what I found in regards to HKDL. The only semi-thrilling ride was RC racer. IMO I much rather enjoyed ocean park, as they cater for both thrill and family. HKDL was more of a 5 hour park, whereas ocean park was a whole day, or even 2. That's where, imo, HKDL has gone WRONG

Are you serious? RC Racer? Did you just skip Space Mountain entirely? Grizzly? Come on.... 

That said, it isn't 'pure thrill' you get at a disney park. Ever. Experience is a big part of it - but its the ride theme, story, experience, and yes, where appropriate, thrill - that makes them. Ocean Park is great for what it is - but what it is is a thrill park - its hard to compare OP and HKDL on equal footing because they don't set out to achieve the same thing - its comparing apples with helicopters.

10 hours ago, djrappa said:

I actually really enjoyed HKDL and this was before the major E-Tickets it's received since opening. 

 

I think many people miss the concept of just enjoying park atmosphere (mostly because our parks have little to none) without being entertained by an attraction 99% of the time. 

Yeah I completely agree - the Park prior to the expansions was still a really nice park I spent a full three days at - the atmosphere was fantastic, but having experienced the park since the expansions, I have to admit I can see why the additions were necessary. The park wouldn't have survived without the expansion.

[Locke]

Out of interest about Wanda from today's paper (not necessarily who AP was talking to):

Wanda launched charter flights between Wuhan, China, and the Gold Coast in 2015, and there were reports it was planning to build a theme park at Coomera.

However, it has pared back its activity recently, canning the flights last year, while any move to establish a new theme park appears to have stalled.

http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/gold-coast/wanda-wont-be-selling-precious-jewel/news-story/0e4e711618d8f984ba58e37a40593c6f

[Brad2912]

As I mentioned earlier, Wanda is getting largely of the theme park business, they certainly won't be opening a theme park here 

[Aw hype]

8 hours ago, AlexB said:

Are you serious? RC Racer? Did you just skip Space Mountain entirely? Grizzly? Come on.... 

That said, it isn't 'pure thrill' you get at a disney park. Ever. Experience is a big part of it - but its the ride theme, story, experience, and yes, where appropriate, thrill - that makes them. Ocean Park is great for what it is - but what it is is a thrill park - its hard to compare OP and HKDL on equal footing because they don't set out to achieve the same thing - its comparing apples with helicopters.

Yeah I completely agree - the Park prior to the expansions was still a really nice park I spent a full three days at - the atmosphere was fantastic, but having experienced the park since the expansions, I have to admit I can see why the additions were necessary. The park wouldn't have survived without the expansion.

Give us your opinion on grizzly and space mountain when you've ridden them ten times over. And as I said, RC was pretty good, but it wasn't a thrill ride. I could ride superman 20 times and it would be thrilling. HKDL didn't have that

[iwerks]

19 hours ago, djrappa said:

I actually really enjoyed HKDL and this was before the major E-Tickets it's received since opening. 

 

I think many people miss the concept of just enjoying park atmosphere (mostly because our parks have little to none) without being entertained by an attraction 99% of the time. 

Totally agree. I first went to HKDL just after it opened and was surprised by how little was there, but I sure love how pretty it is with that hilly backdrop. The fact that it has a couple of shows really helps round out the day, but it's totally what I'm looking for in an Australian park. Build some popular family rides that everyone can go on and that won't make them sick. Have some beautiful gardens, because that's one of the things I hang out for on the weekend.

[Rollercoaster_Lover]

You realise it might not be a new park... say it is six Flags, we all know ardent been wanting to sell for a while, could Six Flags buy Dreamworld and WhiteWaterWorld? If they could do this, tower of terror would be full speed, Shockwave would have this vest restraints and we would get new attractions to battle with Movieworlds. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

11 hours ago, Aw hype said:

Give us your opinion on grizzly and space mountain when you've ridden them ten times over.

I already have given you my opinion after riding them ten times over.

1 hour ago, Rollercoaster_Lover said:

You realise it might not be a new park... say it is six Flags, we all know ardent been wanting to sell for a while, could Six Flags buy Dreamworld and WhiteWaterWorld? If they could do this, tower of terror would be full speed, Shockwave would have this vest restraints and we would get new attractions to battle with Movieworlds. 

Although Six Flags are doing very well for themselves, I don't see them expanding to Australia - even if it is to acquire an existing park. RCDB shows 22 parks that have had Six Flags branding. Only two of those were outside North America (Holland and Belgium, which are now Walibi parks.

Six Flags current lineup includes 13 parks, all but two being within the United States (1 x Mexico and 1 x Canada), not all of which are branded with the six flags name (La Ronde, Great Escape)

The exploration into Holland and Belgium was around 2000-2004, right before the company started to struggle to repay growing debt. Their exit in 2004 from the Walibi parks (and others including WBMW Madrid) led shortly after to big investors (like Bill Gates) begin to cause a ruckus, and then Hurricane Katrina wiped out SF New Orleans. They then offloaded a crap load of parks in the 2005-2007 period, where Magic Mountain (the apparent jewel in the crown these days) was earmarked for sale - but didn't.

They then filed for bankruptcy in 2008, which they finalised \ traded out of in 2010.

Some of this is a recitation of wiki information, but this is to demonstrate why the company may be less than enthusiastic about taking on assets far and wide.

Six Flags have recently made announcements about parks in China (SFx2 + 1HH), Mexico (HH), Dubai (SF), and Vietnam (HH), and just this year they took over operations of a California waterpark.

Regardless, China and Dubai - these are high population centres, with lots of money and lots of growth. The Hurricane Harbour (HH) projects as we know are far cheaper to establish and operate. Dreamworld is an established park, in an established area, with little prospects of growth. They could drop massive coasters on that property for the next ten years and it would still be the worst performing park in their portfolio, due to the high costs of construction and labour, and the lower rates of population and tourism.

Guys - Six Flags, Disney, Universal, Cedar Fair - all these big park brands we know from overseas - none of them are going to buy Dreamworld. At best, we find a local consortium who understands Australia and commits to the brand in their own backyard. At worst we get a smaller operator with enough money to underwrite the loan take it over, and use it for less desirable purposes. Wanda, prior to their staged exit from the theme park game would have been ok - but think about a company like Sunway coming in instead?

I'd like to see Dreamworld picked up by a consortium like Packer - there's still a Casino license up for grabs out there on the coast, and he might just take enough interest in it to make Dreamworld a resort destination... but someone local needs to head this up - that's my 5c.

Edited August 9, 2017 by AlexB

[Themeparkfan]

Could it be merlin?  With their recent expansion and investment into Australia in the last 10 years could we see a Legoland park? 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Themeparkfan

[Rollercoaster_Lover]

51 minutes ago, Themeparkfan said:

Could it be merlin?  With their recent expansion and investment into Australia in the last 10 years could we see a Legoland park? 

We don't need a lego park! I'm just thinking what would be the best fit for the Gold Coast, I'd like to see something like Thorpe park.

[rappa]

15 hours ago, Rollercoaster_Lover said:

We don't need a lego park! I'm just thinking what would be the best fit for the Gold Coast, I'd like to see something like Thorpe park.

Like Dreamworld??

[GreatSpaceCoaster]

Interesting...

I guess it depends what direction a company would want to go:
1. All out theme park like DreamWorld with minimal theming.
2. Completely themed park.

If it's the later, then Universal Studios or a Dreamworks like company (someone like Village/Warner/Roadshow with known exposure / characters in Australia would be the way forwards).

Assuming it's not something like HBO/Fox teaming up to make a themed park.

Will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.