Dreamworld, the inefficient park?

[Daniel]

I'll make some observations tomorrow on the following rides:

I'm waiting with baited breath old son.

[pandora440x]

As per my offer yesterday, here are the results of the ride observations I took. The Giant Drop, Tower of Terror, Wipeout and Cyclone were observed for 3 full cycles to determine an average result. I am not familiar with how Richard crunches his numbers for park comparisons (ie: Cedar point etc) so I'll just get on with it. I have also included some of my own suggestions. GIANT DROP The cycle time was measured from dispatch to the return of the catch car. These times can vary depending on encoder and motor settings, which is why there is a difference of west and east times. Drop WEST: 3 min 33 seconds Drop EAST: 3 min 06 seconds These times would return a total of 35 cycles per hour. This has been rounded down to allow for those cycles times which may be slower due to, for example, when larger riders are not able to secure safety belts, or where riders change their minds. Number of staff today: 3 How to increase capacity: 1.Design improvements to motors. The winch motors on Giant Drop have struggled to keep up with the duty cycle asked of them since the ride opened. Oddly enough, the time it takes to load a group, check their harnesses, and ensure that all belongings are away is roughly the same time it takes for the catch car to engage the gondola again. 2.Always have both lifts staffed. TOWER OF TERROR Time intervals were measured from dispatch to dispatch. As many of you would know, the cycle time from launch to park is in the mid 30’s. (seconds) It is well known to operators that average launch intervals are approximately 2 minutes on TOT, assuming that all guests have their belongings sorted out, are seated, and operators check the lap bars quickly. At 2 minute intervals, this provides 30 cycles per hour. It is not unheard of to be below 2 minutes, but that is the exception to the norm. TOT is theoretically launch capable every 45 seconds – that is the interval at which the ride system will allow launch – but this is not attainable when loading and unloading phases are introduced into the equation. Number of staff today: 3 How to increase capacity: 1.With 3 staff, no further reduction in time is possible. I have said it for years – the biggest obstacle to faster launch cycles on TOT is guest belongings. An alternative to the current storage of these items would go a long way to reducing the launch interval below 2 minutes. 2.Always staff the TOT with 3 staff. WIPEOUT Historically the Wipeout has used 2 different ride programs. (Program 4 or 6, which are a good mixture of twists, turns and inversions. They are two of the longer programs in terms of ride duration.) From ride start to park, the “ride running” cycle is 2 minutes 45 seconds. The entire cycle, including load and unload took 6 minutes 20 seconds. Number of staff today: 4 How to increase capacity: 1.Run an alternative program with a shorter duration. I don’t really see this as a feasible option though. 2.Queue line amendments. Doing this, one must be aware of the need to keep waiting guests a suitable distance from moving (and loud) machinery. By amendments, I also refer to an alternative positioning of staff. Guests could then wait within the tunnel for a short period, but then vandalism becomes an issue. Realistically, with a change in the positioning of staff, the Wipeout could run as well with 3 staff as it does with 4. CYCLONE While attending a staff meeting, I once used the term ‘dysfunctional’ to describe the Cyclone queue. This comment was made in the context of asking if operators would have any input into the queue design of the new ride, so that we could learn from past mistakes. Ride run time: 1 minute 48 seconds (to braking) Ride run time to stop in station: 2 minutes 24 seconds. Ride cycle time (includes load and unload): 4 minutes 04 seconds. Number of staff today: 2 How to increase capacity: 1.2 trains, but as I have mentioned in previous posts, this is a fantasy, and isn’t really a tangible alternative at present, if ever. 2.Have a minimum of 2 staff. This reduces the lag time between unloading a ride, and loading the subsequent cycle. This is a really sensitive issue with the operators of the Cyclone, as it is an obvious and indeed simple solution. To have the same impact without additional staff would require specific work to the layout of the Cyclone queue. And I should add that operators had absolutely no say in how the damn queue was to be set up. It now should be obvious to all reading, by reviewing staff numbers on the rides mentioned above, DW has indeed taken steps to increase guest flow through rides during this holiday period. Now I have 6 points which I would like to make: 1.Richard, my eyes are indeed open, as my comments here ought to show, and I thank you for your apology for suggesting otherwise. At no stage have I made remarks which indicate a narrow-mindedness on my behalf. I simply put the challenge to you to make some suggestions of your own, instead of making cheap, unsubstantiated comments. I have dedicated myself to working professionally in this industry for over a decade, and have strived to promote a positive culture with my colleagues over that time. 2.If Warner parks have found a balance between all aspects of business, then I applaud them. I am sure that DW management also believe that they have achieved the same, despite the opinions of some. Competition is a healthy thing, where you can find it. But evidently all is not as rosy at Warner as some would suggest, given the recent industrial action. Nonetheless DW’s industrial moment is possibly on the horizon also. 3.I quote Richard here: “… 15 minute dispatches on Cyclone aren’t cool.” I whole-heartedly agree! Your suggestion that this ride only cycles 4 times per hour is ludicrous. In making this statement you severely tarnished your own credibility. When the ride has only 1 operator, the average cycle time is half of what you suggest. I don’t believe that this is acceptable either, but I have no need to resort to exaggeration – I’d rather stick to the truth. 4.I quote Richard: “You’re not paying to have a good time at the bank.” The purpose of my bank and supermarket examples was to illustrate a dilemma faced by all service providers. That dilemma is to find a balance between cost and service delivery. What you are paying for is irrelevant. (a good time at a theme park, quick secure service at a bank, or speedy efficient supermarket check-outs) What IS relevant is that appropriate steps are taken to up the delivery as circumstances require it. 34 additional ride staff were employed to cater for the increases in demand for these holidays. That number is closer to 80 for December/January trading periods. 5.Thanks for pointing out that “capacity is probably one of the most important aspects to theme park operation.” Personally I would replace “probably” with “undoubtedly”. And it does come at a cost. I’m not sure I know staff in any workplace who work for free. Maybe cheaply, as in this industry, but certainly not for free. I am unable to see that changes to queue arrangements can be made without cost either. And finally, 6. Making comparisons between Disney parks and Australian parks is unbalanced. Sure, let’s all strive to have the capacity at which Disney operates, but is that a tangible goal considering the size of our market here in Australia. It’s old fashioned economics, which I studied while earning my Business degree many years ago. I understand that the population of the USA is 153 times greater than Australia. (19,913,144 AUS versus 293,027,571 USA) In the grand scheme of things, Dreamworld employees strive to deliver good service to guests. I know that there are some staff that could do better, but their numbers are meagre when compared to those who strive to meet the high expectations our guests rightfully have. As the former CEO once said to me: “Stop dumping **** on Dreamworld for just one minute.” Richard, perhaps you should heed the same advice

[Daniel]

Giddy up! My attention span is too short to read it all, you've used up Richard's monthly limit with that post old son.

[Bussy]

That would have to be the longest post in this board’s history. Like Daniel I have a very short attention span and got as far as "As per my offer yesterday," and knew what was coming so I didn't bother reading on. I might have blacked out as well because I’m missing about 10 minutes of my life, and before you all start, it wasn't aliens. "The Bus is now leaving for Spanker Knob, Victoria"

[Richard]

First off, I find it quite ironic that after being offended by my seemingly wild and unjust claim that there are realistic improvements to be made throughout Dreamworld, you proceed to give several ways to improve each ride. I'm sure you would have no troubles doing the same with the ticket booths, turnstiles, food outlets etc. either. Let's look at the figures you've given. Let's compare them to official capacities. Giant Drop: Official - 75-100 dph (600-800 pph) Yours - 35 dph (280 pph) Tower of Terror: Official - 35 (525 pph) Yours - 30 (450 pph) Wipeout: Official - 12.5 (500 pph) Yours - 9.5 (380 pph) Cyclone: Official - 17 (400 pph) Yours - 14.5 (350 pph) Take this for face value if you will. It's worthwhile that with few exceptions, all Warner Village rides operate consistently (year-round) at, and even above, manufacturers/official capacities. It's also interesting to note that ride staff seems to have increased two and even three-fold in most cases. I haven't been to Dreamworld in a month or two, but if in this time things have changed this much, I'd be glad and willing to write an update to my first article, because either you were selective in the dispatches you have chosen, or things are improving at Dreamworld. Now, onto your six further points. 1. Point out any unsubstantiated claims or comments I've made thus far. I'm interested. 2. Industrial dispute etc. is totally irrelevant to this discussion. Similarly, I never once suggested that WVTP were perfect. They have their problems, but in this particular area of discussion, they undeniably top Dreamworld. 3. Consistent 15 minute dispatches is hardly something I've made up. It is infrequent, but it's far from a once-off thing in my experience. Ten minutes or so would be be around the average for me on all my visits this year - all off-peak, midweek visits, but frequently, particularly in the past, this figure of fifteen minutes or so creeps back. 4. Banks are heavily downsizing their branch staff in favour of the online options. Surely with a business degree down pat you'd know and understand that. Unfortunately, when people fork over $58, they're not expecting a copy of RollerCoaster Tycoon. 6. Proportional comparisons of Australian to US parks are fair and reasonable. So what if Australia is significantly smaller than USA (and I think your mathematics needs a little work, because last I checked, there aren't three billion people in America)? If Disneyland has an annual attendance of X and a total capacity (per hour, day, year,or whatever) Y, then Dreamworld with annual attendance of X/k should have a corresponding total capacity of Y/k in the most appropriate situation. You're seemingly business savvy, so explain to me why this wouldn't make sense.

[pandora440x]

Yes, it would seem that my maths is in need of some work. i actually thought that I had typed 15 POINT 3 for the population stats (which were sourced from the CIA world book). I guess I am not a robot after all. The correct figure is approximately 14.7 times. I stand corrected. As for official figures... I understand that the Giant Drop signage was due for an overhall. The figures are way overstated, that's for sure. It would not be possible to achieve the figures stated, under any circumstances! The other figures are calculated under ideal conditions, like maximum staff. I must say thought that the absolute higest figures I have ever seen for TOT was 32 shots in an hour. Parks in Australia will never achieve profits like Banks. If anyone has serious suggestions for improvements, I'd love to see them posted. I don't really receive any enjoyment from contributors suggesting that the problems are simple to solve, and then not actually making suggestions. This is why I offered some examples. Oddly enough, there are people who work at Dreamworld (including myself) who would love to see improvements also. After all, who wouldn't want their working life to become easier?

[pandora440x]

Just to clarify how I collected the ride stats... I went from ride to ride during the afternoon, observed 3 full cycles from dispatch to dispatch, and recorded the times. The averages of these were presented in the rather long post previously. Note that the number of staff working at each of the rides was also included. These observations were during the school holiday period, hence the extra staff.

[joz]

I quite liked that nice long post. It seems to pretty much repeat what we've been saying for ages now. Nice to see DW upping the staff level at busy times, (as we'd more or less expect) but its what happens next that'll interest me. Really, from what I can see as an outsider, your suggestions seem pretty much spot on. Though I must admit I've never had a problem with Wipeout's queue, since it rarely extends outside the queue house, and is normally only one or two cycle wait. I've yet to really see ToT since the queue has been redesigned, though I suspect you’re right in your judgement here. Really, two of the more obvious problems in terms of capacity are GD and Cyclone. There's a couple of your suggestions that we've suggested many times before, and if they were implemented, would make me a much more happy camper. GD should run both sides all the time, and Cyclone should always be staffed with 2 people. They don't look designed to run any other way. Cyclone could probably also benefit (even if only slightly) by having the final brake run re-programmed to speed up parking the train. Like I say, your observations have pretty much confirmed what we've been saying about poor performance, and this is in the holidays when the rides performance is at its best. At least YOU get it though. Maybe you should apply for a more senior position?

[joz]

The final word

[Gazza]

Just a quick question, what is the problem with cyclones queue house? I haven't been to DW since cyclone opened so I dont really know what this problem people speak of is.

[joz]

There's a couple of problems with the current set up of Cyclone's queue. For one its a 5 min walk after the ride to get back to the park, and the area is hardly scenic. The other far more serious problem is that the end of the queue is a long way from the station. This means that the operator must hike down to the queue, count the guests through, and them follow them to the station and let them in. Another problem this creates is the last 4 or so seats aren't together, there normally singles. So if the operator calls 24 people through, then the last group will on occasions not ride unless they can ride together adding more drama to the process. It normally adds about 5 mins on top of the cycle times.

[Slick]

Hey joz, you've never noticed the emergency stairs everyone uses now? Everything else though is fully understandable though, the dilema having to wait another 3 minutes just because one little toddler is too small to ride is just unreasonable. This was also a problem for TOT once when a great friend was operating. A large group of indian people (11 to be exact) joined up with two people at the front of the line, making a lot of noise and testing the ride-ops perseverance (hopefully I nailed that one) and finally when they came through there was one boy who was too small, but they let him through to go up with his mum but not ride. But the little boy didn't understand what was going on so when the gates opened and he was about to be seperated from the group he just erupted into tears, his mum was eager to go on, so they had to unlock the harnesses, then they spoke to the boy for quite a number of minutes, then finally on of the ride-ops had to stay with the boy behind the gates. Nightmares sometimes just to get one ride.

[GoGoBoy]

That is totally the publics fault and not much can be done about it. It is a common problem. If the stupid morons would just look at the signs out the front (especially when they have a small child) they will see the height restrictions. The problem is that a lot of parents see the height restriction but still line up anyway hoping to get their kid on the ride. Nothing makes me more angry. The fact of the matter is if the height restriction is ignored their child could be seriously injured or killed. I know that sounds dramatic but it is the plain truth

[Richard]

Hey joz, you've never noticed the emergency stairs everyone uses now?

What do you mean now? People have been using those stairs since the day the ride opened. Personally, I'll go the way which was intended. I'll also often close the gate as I go past it.

[joz]

Stairs? Noticed them, used them slick. Still, I don't like being the first person to use them if you know what I mean. I'm far too well behaved Calm down Goboi, we all know that parents will try to sneak their kids on rides. Parents do have blinkers on when they go to theme parks. Try and tell them they can't take a stroller into a show because its a real hazard in an emergency. Anyone who works in a theme park knows it. To be fair though, I reckon its more ignorance than anything else. I mean, when you go to a theme park you don't think of why these restrictions exists (parent parking prevents parents with strollers from having to walk to far), but more ways around them (I find the best way to park in parents with strollers parking in the supermarket is too go shopping with my mum and have a stroller in the back seat. Also ignoring the sign works). With regard to safety, 9/10 parents understand when you explain to them what the restraints are designed for, and how they are unsafe. Its just the 1 that makes life difficult and inspires one too steal parking spots.

[Gazza]

So why dont they let people queue closer to where the gates are so the op has to walk a shorter distance.

[joz]

Thats one only DW managers can answer.

[GoGoBoy]

You're right joz... most parents are understanding when told their child can't ride for safety reasons, as they should be. There are a few who take a long time to comprehend the fact and try to argue it and others who go ballistic no matter what. The problem is that even the 9/10 parents who are understanding still take time to have the situation explained to them. They then have to work out what to do with their kid, whether they still want to go on alone and give the child to a relative etc. So no matter what, it is a time consuming situation. When you consider that it happens all the time, it really adds up. The only thing I can think of is to have a blatantly obvious height restriction sign every 2 metres along the queue with an explanation on each sign

[ads086]

When I went to dreamworld about a month ago, the Cyclone was operating with only 1 ride op, and it took forever. One way to increase the throughput on the cyclone would be to have three ride ops (expensive I know, but would get people through faster. 1st Ride Op - in the control booth and checking harnesses on left side of train 2nd Ride Op on the right side of train to check harnesses 3rd Person to let people through from the queue line to the doors. This way you could have the one group on the ride and the next group waiting to step on (I don't know whether this is possible with safety checks between rides (if they do this) or whatever, just a suggestion) Regarding people who don't read signs. These were the biggest cause of delays when I was there. After being only the third lot of people from the door, it seemed to take forever to get there (there was only one side operating). Once we were in the gondola, strapped in and at the top of the high-speed part of the whinching, we started dropping back down very slowly, right the way to the bottom. It turned out that some guy had pulled out his mobile phone when we were at the top. He had it taken off him and the ride-op explained that a $2 coin dropped from that height would lodge in someone's brain. We went back up and thought they would get us back down as quickly as possible, because the queue was starting to build up, but they didn't. We waited up there until after the TOT had been and gone, then waited, and waited for probably another 15 secs until we fell. There was someone waiting to talk to the phone guy at the bottom, so I don't know what happened to him. As far as I can tell, the only way to increase throughput on the GD would be to have both sides operating at once, and have one op to get people organised to get onto the ride, then the one op for each side of the tower

[Slick]

Okay as for what you said for Cyclone, this is what happens now on holidays, and as for last weekend, take the 2nd and 3rd person and mush them together and then you get two ride-ops for sort-of off-peak times. And as for GD. From what I have been told if both GD sides hit the brakes at the same time issues come into question with the engines with the top of the tower. Ideas that have been issued by Richo etc. would be to place a third track on the north side of the tower, give a 3/4 ring around the tower, and adjusting engines etc. for all this to take place. More capacity, and because its done in one big lot (like the Claw) it gets done quicker. Maybe instead of even using the engines to winch you up they could just use air compression to launch it up the tower then leave you up the top for about 5 seconds and release the pressure again. All combined with the 3/4 ring idea. That would be cool, BUT I WANT MORE THEMEING!

[ads086]

The 3/4 ring idea sounds good. Tilting seats like some other full-ring models would be good aswell. I've ridden the space probe from Wonderland and I liked the way they had you standing in line and directed each line to the right gondola. I agree, it needs more theming. I think the oil-company idea was alright, but not brilliant. The queue system is not great, maybe building something that goes underneath the Model T would be good. You could have this entrance building that was dark that just had a slope down into the ground. Having stainless steel grid-type walkways with lighting on the underneath, with red and yellow piping along the walls of the walkway, and lights hanging from the ceiling. Part way along the queue line you could have a sudden shot of hot air blowing up from underneath the walkway, as happens during oil drilling when they hit air pockets

[Gazza]

One issue that may arise is the proximity to skylink, which may be why there is no 3rd track. Alternativley, instead of a ring, why not a good ol super wide set of seats http://www.zamperla.com/immaginiFoto/detta...kydrop2_400.jpg, just add some bracing to cope with the gs.

[Slick]

Ahh yes, never thought about Skylink but it does go almost directly across the GD building. This can be over come though, but at a cost....... (hahaha, Dreamworld....) If you've seen some of the discovery channel's thrill ride documenteries last year you would know about thrill shot at SFMM. Built by S&S, basically its three towers all connected to a central gondola and depending on how much "thrill" you want, the seats move at different times. Now that would be cool. Now let's put some air compression launches in with modified everything, so there's better capacity..... (Dreamworld says: or not.....)

[Bussy]

And as for GD. From what I have been told if both GD sides hit the brakes at the same time issues come into question with the engines with the top of the tower.

I don't know who you heard that from but I think they were tugging something, and I don't mean your leg. How does hitting the magnetic brakes affect the winch motors (not engines)? I just don't see the link. Now think about the compressed air idea. Keep it in your mind. Think about it. Keep thinking about it. Now that you have thought about it do you realise what a stupid idea it is? Just think about the amount of pressure it would take to launch the cabin all the way to the top. "The Bus is now leaving for Magnet, Tasmania"

[Slick]

How is it a stupid idea? The tower's inside part has plenty of capacity to fit several pistons. And plus one of the reasons (I think from memory) why its not good for both of them to freefall at once (which they don't do unless the ride-ops have good timing) is because a)the amount of weight hitting the tower at once. b)the engine always working both sides at once even though from memory it's designed to handle a drop at a time. c)the hydraulics or air compressors at the bottom. d) the computer systems (look at tot, computer systems? Get it? I'm tired.)