Mini Wonderland

[joz]

Parking: What's wrong with the land in between the road and the beach? And Don't tell me it can't be done because its council's land as SW's carpark past the monorail is council land. It can't be that difficult to make it accessible either. Demon: Not worth the relocation costs for a ride which has little if any appeal in Sydney. Bush Beast: Get ride of it and install a ride which uses its footprint better. Don't worry about spending half a mil to re-track, but buy something new and appealing. Park infrastructure: Repave where necessarily, but don't go crazy wasting budget on stuff which is more or less good. Admin/ Back of House: Well, if everyone's version of 'Mini Wonderland' cuts off after Snowy, then what about putting those sort of facilities around the near the back half of Snowy? People won't need that area as passage way any more, and stuff could be relocated there. New Stuff: Replacement Wooden Coaster, and a couple of flats around the old Sky Rider station and replace the Great Race (or whatever they were calling it at the end) with some kiddie rides. The beach could probably also do with a new slide, but not vital. Also, with regards to stuff coming off riders on Corkscrew: The forces on corkscrew are such that loose items (except hats) are not coming off the ride unless they are thrown. Your pretty safe with stuff in your pockets, and if something does fall out of your pockets it'll just sit on the seat next too you until the ride finishes. Really a ride like Corkscrew doesn't even need restraints for normal operation.

[zordmaker]

Bush Beast:  Get ride of it and install a ride which uses its footprint better.  Don't worry about spending half a mil to re-track, but buy something new and appealing.

BB may end up with a Heritage order on it. That's the only problem there. There has been talk of it in BCC circles lately. A few more people have become involved as well through BCC, it seems Im not the only one with the plan. There is likely to be a meeting held. More as it happens. ZordMaker

[ScReAMmachine!]

Really a ride like Corkscrew doesn't even need restraints for normal operation.

I don't think I'll be visiting a theme park run by you!

[rappa]

No Jos is actualy spot on. No standard sit down looper that only runs forwards really needs restraints at all. The centrifugal forces that are at work will hold you in your seat no matter whether your upside down or not. Of course in the advent of an emergency the restraints come into play. We all know OTSRs are never needed though, just look at the old Schwarzkopf coasters!

[Bussy]

Well, nice of you to give me that information, but I think I'll take an expert opinion once one is offered. The Auction process should be an ideal opportunity to inspect the goods and have a condition report prepared. Basically as far as I am concerned the Demon was and still is in "operating condition". There has been no mention anywhere of track or structural problems.

Well considering that I spent usually 3 or 4 days out of 5 operating that ride or over a year I consider myself an expert. Now I know you are going to say that I was just an operator and didn't know anything but I spoke to the maintenance guys almost daily and I saw that ride breakdown at least twice a week on average. There has been no comment about structural problems because that was the first time I have brought it up. I think it was just before Christmas when the problem was found and the ride was closed for several days while the structural problem was investigated and an appropriate solution was made, whether or not this was a long term solution or not remains to be seen.

Only overflow parking outside. Enough on site parking will be provided for regular school holidays. Extra parking will be arranged for Public Holidays, when available in surrounding areas. A Shuttle bus service will also run. Hmm.. know anyone who rents out buses?..Ones that are Wonderful?...:-)

Do you think that is a viable solution that would be appreciated by the customers? How would you feel if you pulled up at the gates and were told to go 5kms down the road and park and then wait 15-30 minutes for a shuttle bus? The public transport that serviced Wonderland was poor and I don't see Busways getting any better. But if you want to hire a bus just give me a buzz and I will be more than willing to lend my services, for the right price of course.

Parking: What's wrong with the land in between the road and the beach? And Don't tell me it can't be done because its council's land as SW's carpark past the monorail is council land. It can't be that difficult to make it accessible either.

What's wrong with the land? Well it's about 5 meters wide and 20 meters long but that shouldn't be a problem, should it? If you go any further into the park and any further along towards the M4 you would be encroaching on the space that Zordy wants for rides.

BB may end up with a Heritage order on it. That's the only problem there. There has been talk of it in BCC circles lately.

Bush Beast with a heritage order on it? Why? So the council can waste a heap of money each year keeping in a reasonable state, another waste of taxpayer’s money as far as I can tell. "The Bus is now leaving for Waste Point, NSW"

[zordmaker]

Well considering that I spent usually 3 or 4 days out of 5 operating that ride or over a year I consider myself an expert.  Now I know you are going to say that I was just an operator and didn't know anything but I spoke to the maintenance guys almost daily and I saw that ride breakdown at least twice a week on average.

I would call that fairly average for such a ride. Once a day would be too much.

 There has been no comment about structural problems because that was the first time I have brought it up.  I think it was just before Christmas when the problem was found and the ride was closed for several days while the structural problem was investigated and an appropriate solution was made, whether or not this was a long term solution or not remains to be seen.  

"Structural Problems" can mean anything. Its all an opinion. It happens regularly in an industry where people are confronted with things they are not familiar with. The Railways are the same. One man's "Structural Problem" is another's "Standard Practice". I think you'll find it was just a difference of opinion between one or two inspecting engineers.

Do you think that is a viable solution that would be appreciated by the customers?  How would you feel if you pulled up at the gates and were told to go 5kms down the road and park and then wait 15-30 minutes for a shuttle bus?  The public transport that serviced Wonderland was poor and I don't see Busways getting any better.  But if you want to hire a bus just give me a buzz and I will be more than willing to lend my services, for the right price of course.

Standard Practice at many (particularly European) Parks, and of course any special event. Sydneysiders are used to it, after being introduced to the idea at the Olympics. Simple. Want a park, come early. Rock up late, catch the bus.

  Bush Beast with a heritage order on it?  Why?  So the council can waste a heap of money each year keeping in a reasonable state, another waste of taxpayer’s money as far as I can tell.

I guess because it is unique, thats why. I guess they might get away with demolishing it if only to build another in it's place. ZordMaker.

[rappa]

I wouldn't say sydney is 'used to it.' Anyone who really lives in Sydney and spends anytime in the city and CBDs would know just how much Sydney was ****ed up for anyone not going to and from the Olympics. Everyone talks about how wonderful we handled the Olympics but anyone who actualy knows how they achieved that sees a very different side of it. We only achieved such sucess by sacrificing all the public transport not around the Olympic site and by forcing businesses to close to free up the roads. Don't mean to go off on a rant but yeah I don't think we are just willing to accept sub standard transport solutions... sorry Zordy :-(

[Richard]

Slapping a Heritage Order on Bush Beast would be incredibly narrow-minded and foolish to say the least. In terms of actual historical value, Beastie is a far more fitting ride for such titles, given that it was an ACE Classic, and consequently displayed all the necessary operation traits to be deemed a "historically significant" roller coaster, and even it isn't worthy of such protection. Bush Beast is a badly designed coaster, with no real heritage about it. It's not unique - there are 167 currently in operation around the world. They are still widely produced and available, by several manufacturers with far more skill at designing coasters than PTC had in the 1970's. Luna Park's (Melbourne) Big Dipper, now there's a ride that was worthy of Heritage Order. It did have one actually, but you can see how far that went.

[Bussy]

I would call that fairly average for such a ride. Once a day would be too much.

The thing with Demon was that it would basically have a hissy fit every so often. It would go for a period where everything was fine during everyday operation and then there would be a period that would last a couple of weeks, during those periods the ride would breakdowns on a regular basis. I’m talking 5 or more times a day sometimes. The reason this would happen is because they would fix the ride and then the standard of up-keep would drop so another problem would come up and it would take them some time to diagnose the problem and then to fix it. Would you call a crack in the supporting structure's welding a minor problem? The crack was in one of the supports for the loop and closed the ride for several days while an independent inspection was done and the required repairs done. This crack was not a minor one, it was about 2-3 inches long, now if the ride had been maintained properly and inspected thoroughly then the crack would have been detected earlier than it was. There is a problem with Sydneysiders and that is if they can drive somewhere then they will, the only reason Olympic Park works is because it was designed that way where as most other places are not. Wonderland is a perfect example of this, the built an absolutely huge car park and as far as I know the only time that the whole thing was used was during the 2000 games when it was a park and ride venue for the equestrian centre at Horsley Park. People will want to drive there and that’s a fact. "The Bus is now leaving for Crack Hardy Point, NSW"

[rappa]

Perfectly summed up Bus. I would say a big part of that is the safety of our public transport system...even before we begin to bring up the sad state of the trains at the moment. I will never catch a train, I just don't feel safe. I can back that up with why if you really need me to but lets just leave it at that. Until we can get somewhere easily and safely via public transport we will continue to drive. Add to that it takes me 20-25mins on a good day to drive to WL, via public transport I'd estimate it at anything from 1-1.5 hours.

[SeanM]

On another note, does anyone remember all the talk in the late 80's regarding the name change of Rooty Hill to Wonderland?... Was this the work of BCC, or just a media stunt?

[zordmaker]

On another note, does anyone remember all the talk in the late 80's regarding the name change of Rooty Hill to Wonderland?... Was this the work of BCC, or just a media stunt?

Definitely cant remember that one, and I worked in Rooty Hill from 1987 to 1989. ZordMaker

[SeanM]

It was in the local papers for a while...most locals thinking it was totally stupid idea... Cheers Sean

[SeanM]

Zordmaker, The old OTC site would be a great place to relocate Wonderland. Hwy frontage, Close to the Orbital, Lots of Space...

[zordmaker]

Zordmaker, The old OTC site would be a great place to relocate Wonderland. Hwy frontage, Close to the Orbital, Lots of Space...

That may be true, yes. It is zoned open space and may be able to be used for such a purpose. However for the moment, the main aim was to make it so that certain "hard to move" assets at Wonderland could remain where they are rather than starting out on a greenfield site from scratch which would be very costly. Still, in the event that WL finally does go under the Bulldozer then yes it would be a good place to start. However a better place (more viable) would be Homebush Bay, IMO. It would be a hard fight to convince Dept of Planning to allow any sort of development on the OTC site, which is part of the Western Sydney green belt. But then again, they built the Olympic Softball Stadium across the road, didnt they. There is a large council held land parcel almost next to WL, on the other side of the M4 (Dog Pound). Apart from some old sheds there's just about jack all there. There's a chance that if convinced BCC might be able to "swap" that land for the Mini Wonderland site. Need to find somewhere for the dogs, though:-) As you can see it would be virtually the same as far as ING was concerned. Lots of possibilities, and time is on our side. ZordMaker.

[SeanM]

Zordmaker, sorry to get off the topic..but do you know what is the future use is with the OTC site?...apart from someone using it to test his home made bombs Cheers Sean

[zordmaker]

Zordmaker, sorry to get off the topic..but do you know what is the future use is with the OTC site?...apart from someone using it to test his home made bombs Cheers Sean

Nothing. Open space. Bomb testing. I'm sure something will come up someday though, possibly more sports grounds etc. Extremely unlikely ever to leave public ownership. Telstra sold it back to the Federal Govt in 1999. SWRFM appplied to get the old Transmitter building for it's studio before it was demolished but we were too late, it got trashed and is now gone along with all the antennas, etc. ZordMaker

[Gazza]

I have added a couple more stages to my park design, the size now sits at 200m x 300m (How much would this cost in sydney). It also has 47 attractions, but of course the park would not start of with all of them. The Attractions: 1) Speedbikes - Vekoma Motorbike coaster 2) Farmyard Train – Zamperla Kiddie Train 3) Detonator – Zamperla Energy Storm 4) Battle of the Tomb – Vekoma Madhouse 5) Roar – Zamperla Explorer 6) Ice Breaker – Intamin Spillwater 7) Sky Diver – Proslide Dry Boat Waterslide 8) Busy Balloons – Zamperla Samba Tower 9) Swamp Romp –Intamin Tow boat 10) The Spider – Zamperla Telefighter 11) Krazy Kangaroo – Zamperla Barn Stormer 12) Carousel - Zamperla Merry go Round 13) Time Warper – Intamin Pasquier Ride 14) Ghost Tower – Interactive Rides Frequent Faller 15) Sky Cycle – Zamperla Sky Cycle 16) Riptide River – Intamin flume 17) Volcano – Intamin Drunken Barrels 18) Evil Labs – Walkthrough Maze 19) Timber Terror – Intamin Wooden Coaster 20) Black Dragon – B&M Inverted Coaster 21) The Hawk – Zamperla Volare 22) Alien Attack – Sally Interactive Dark Ride 23) F16 Force – Intamin Rocket Coaster 24) Flying Fish – Intamin Flying Dutchman 25) B.0.T – Zamperla Rotoshake 26) Ferris Wheel – Intamin Ferris Wheel 27) G2 – Intamin Gyro Drop 28) Canyon Rapids – Intamin River rapids 29) Funny Frog – Zamperla Jumping Star 30) Battering Ram – Huss Rainbow 31) Disco Whirl – Huss Breakdance 32) Traffic Jam – Zamperla Dodgems 33) Play Zone – Megatoy Playground 34) Putt Putt – Mini Golf Course 35) Man Overboard – Interactive Rides Sky Skater 36) Fire Rescue – Zamperla Fire Brigade 37) Vulcan – Huss Topspin 38) Fireball Frenzy – B&M Floorless Coaster 39) Jungle Jeeps – Zamperla Jeep Ride 40) Spinsanity – Maurer Sohne Spinning Coaster 41) Tornado – Intamin Impulse Coaster 42) Mechanical Mayhem – Zamperla Disk O 43) The Virus – Zamperla Hawk 44) Satellite Spin – Zamperla Mini Jet 45) Sewer Rat – Proslide Dry Boat Waterslide 46) Mini Jetter – Mack Powered Coaster 47) Immersion – Intamin Simulator So anyone who says Sydney cant fit a big park is lying. Aslo, I have devoted 100m x 150m for a car park, It would most likley be a multi - deck, but to discorage people from taking their cars , there would be a possible public transport rebate on your ticket price. Enjoy:

[zordmaker]

I have added a couple more stages to my park design, the size now sits at 200m x 300m (How much would this cost in sydney). It also has 47 attractions, but of course the park would not start of with all of them. :

Although you say the park would not "start" with all of them, it would certainly need to start with a single plan and not deviate from it. The reality is that most parks are historical and things are put where they go because of a thousand different engineering reasons mainly other things being in the way, easements, underground services, clearances, heritage orders on some buildings, preservation orders on trees etc etc etc. But it's a great demonstration of just what is possible in a (relatively) small space. The space you mention is about the same size as that planned for "Mini Wonderland". But my only concern would be that there are alot of rides and not much else.. pity if you're not a Rides person. Needs to be plenty of room for eating, after all that's what makes the cash registers tingle, not rides. I wonder if you could add up an approximate cost of establishing all these rides based on a totally greenfield site?... ZordMaker

[Gazza]

well I have 17 food outlets incorporated (Represented by red stripes) so that would be enough, plus there would be numerous vending machines and cart stalls. Yes, this would start on a completely cleared site, and Im sure easments would be worked around. also, this time i put in some maitnence areas (marked by green stripes) so I havent forgotten everything.

[Bussy]

Don't you think that 17 food outlets is a bit over the top for a park 200m X 300m in size? It's a very small park and the numbers coming through the gates would not make it feasible to have that many outlets. Maybe half that number and have one of them a descent restaurant. "The Bus is now leaving for Over Ridge, Western Australia"

[Richard]

17 an overkill? I'd say about three would be an overkill for a park of the size suggested. Sea World really only has six places (you don't need to count each individual section of the Plaza or the Terrace because they're more or less just different sections of the same place). Dreamworld has eight. Luna Park in Melbourne only had a single place last time I was there, and that's more the size of park you'd be looking at.

[Daniel]

Are you joking re: its size? Mate, I could spit further. Will it be like a club where you have to queue up until people leave before you're allowed in?

[Bussy]

Never mind the 17 food outlets what about the 47 rides, now that’s overkill. Gazza put in about a 3rd of the rides and then it might be a bit more realistic. Better yet forget the whole idea of putting a park on the site, find a new site and then your design can be as big as it likes. "The Bus is now leaving for Bulloo River Overflow, NSW"

[Gazza]

I was more trying to fit it on a small site because of Sydneys high land prices. Whoops, maybe 17 is too much I didnt really know the correct number for a park that size, removing them would free up space for open areas or gardens. but many of the outlets are small and would not be "meal" food outlets, they would be places like Boost Juice, Kernels Popcorn or Wendys Ice -cream. Re Daniel, no you would not have to wait. But the number of rides would soak up the people well As for there being 47 attractions, thats counting every kiddie ride and non ride attractions eg the mini golf course and the playground. and the park would only start off with 21 rides. And anyway, I put in the large number of rides because Im a park nut and thats what I wanted. Oh its fun to dream.