Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

[New display name]

10 minutes ago, AlexB said:

Everything I read along the lines of the above suggested there was a conveyor stop at the unload point.

If the below is true:

then this is really confusing - that little panel way out there - use that where the main panel can't be reached? that's like saying only touch your letter box if you can't touch your thumb.

on the flip side, if that truly is the 'other' stop button - then it's no wonder operators were told 'nobody uses that'...

It only suggest it because we would expect for the unload to have an E-Stop.   " A memo was sent to staff less than a week before the incident advising only to use the second e-stop button if the "main control panel cannot be reached" suggest to me it's quicker to get to the control panel. 

I would read that as:

You go to the main control panel unless for some reason like the control panel area is on fire then you go for the second E-Stop.

 

 

[dbo121]

This is a very good point. Should only discuss evidence and not conclude. Still my evidence raised was not correct in discussion. If you replaced that with 10 seconds or even less still I am content with my postings for today.

Cannot avoid different interpretations though. That’s what makes a conversation .

Edited June 19, 2018 by dbo121

[GoGoBoy]

My question is why has no one referred to sensors that detect where a raft is, similar to a block system, as a way of preventing the accident? A water level sensor has been mentioned but nothing about block sensors to stop rafts getting too close together on or off the conveyor. It seems the ride doesn’t have them which is surprising as most water rides do.

Also, I noticed the Ardent Leisure share price hasn’t dropped at all, which is odd.

[dbo121]

It’s not odd about share price if you believe in market efficiency. 

My understanding is no block sensors except in unload/load section which were there to alert attendant to push rafts through only.. at least not in the 10 years prior.

Edited June 19, 2018 by dbo121

[New display name]

23 minutes ago, GoGoBoy said:

My question is why has no one referred to sensors that detect where a raft is, similar to a block system, as a way of preventing the accident? A water level sensor has been mentioned but nothing about block sensors to stop rafts getting too close together on or off the conveyor. It seems the ride doesn’t have them which is surprising as most water rides do.

Also, I noticed the Ardent Leisure share price hasn’t dropped at all, which is odd.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Skeeta

[dbo121]

Sensor and block sensors are two different types of sensors.

Edited June 19, 2018 by dbo121

[Brad2912]

I think the answer is no, but do theme parks have “licences” as such that allow them to operate - just as say zoos and casinos do? 

Would/could the outcome of this inquest potentially hand down or have the power to suspend said “licence” if one exists? 

I don’t see anyway Ardent comes out of this financially or reputationally well... just curious as to if a stipulation as such could be made that Ardent could no longer operate theme parks for x amount of years as a condition/outcome 

 

1 minute ago, dbo121 said:

Sensor and block sensors are two different types of sensors.

Sensors are a type of sensor. Correct. 

[dbo121]

This is an inquest.  Prosecutions may follow at another time. At an inquest defendants cannot defend themselves. Will be interesting if that occurs during a potential prosecution unless there are out of court settlements.

As for the license yes a workplace and a ride has one. Question there is how to you get one and what are the monitoring/renewal standards etc for theme parks in particular or ride operators. These might need change following inquest outcomes .

[red dragin]

10 minutes ago, dbo121 said:

Sensor and block sensors are two different types of sensors.

Two different applications/uses of a sensor output. 

An axle counter can operate a level crossing, but can also serve as part of a block (at the same time even) 

[GoGoBoy]

6 minutes ago, red dragin said:

Two different applications/uses of a sensor output. 

An axle counter can operate a level crossing, but can also serve as part of a block (at the same time even) 

And in the quote referred to earlier the Constable was talking about placing a water level sensor at the end of the ride, not a block sensor that would have stopped the conveyor when the raft ahead hadn’t cleared the block. A feature of most flume rides. It seems those giving evidence so far have little ride or mechanical knowledge; perhaps this question will be asked further into the inquest? 

Edited June 19, 2018 by GoGoBoy

[dbo121]

Touché. The point I was making the sensor would not stop the raft at certain points. Only start an alarm meaning push button to move raft along. It sounds like this happened every 15 seconds. Which appears not enough given it took 7 seconds for a shutdown. It’s a mute point though. There should have been automated fail safes reducing operator input as per modern rides .

Did this ride require a higher level of operator for the main panel (was classified level 4 bracket a decade or so back )  like the log ride because of its manual nature ? 

Block or water level sensors. All the above could have stopped it without human input.

I think our interest in this is fuelled by the tragic losses. My sincere condolences to families in particular involved.

Edited June 19, 2018 by dbo121

[red dragin]

I think we are still at the beginning. The police took control first, well before experts would have attended. Seems logical to start with them. 

Has there been any mention of an alarm associated with a pump shut down? Or was it purely the drop in water level that was the only notification? 

Edited June 19, 2018 by red dragin

[pushbutton]

17 minutes ago, red dragin said:

I think we are still at the beginning. The police took control first, well before experts would have attended. Seems logical to start with them. 

Has there been any mention of an alarm associated with a pump shut down? Or was it purely the drop in water level that was the only notification? 

According to the Courier Mail article I posted above, only the "scum lines" gave a rough visual indication of the water level to the operator.

Pretty pathetic considering how critical it was to the safety of guests.

Edited June 19, 2018 by pushbutton

[red dragin]

Thanks, that's what I thought. 

[dbo121]

 Be careful of believing snippets of information. For example a light on the main control panel illuminated if water pump failed /turned off could have turned on. ( not sure if that is true of false but just using for example of info missed)

This may or may not have existed but don’t take one comment via a b grade media producer re scum lines being relied on only without further thought. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by dbo121

[joz]

3 minutes ago, dbo121 said:

 Be careful of believing snippets of information. For example a light on the main control panel illuminated if water pump failed /turned off could have turned on. ( not sure if that is true of false but just using for example of info missed)

This may or may not have existed but don’t take one comment via a b grade media producer re scum lines being relied on only without further thought. 

Did you just make all that up to say the media can't be trusted?

[GoGoBoy]

45 minutes ago, joz said:

Did you just make all that up to say the media can't be trusted?

Meanwhile The Courier Fail splashed all over the front page that the ride attendant is a hero, before she has even taken to the stand. Jumping the gun, much?

[dbo121]

Are you serious? Media can state one point from some facts but not all the points to make a story . It’s called sensational journalism. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by dbo121

[GoGoBoy]

5 minutes ago, dbo121 said:

It’s called journalism. 

Journalism is something you won’t find in any of the Murdoch newspapers or on the commercial networks. Stick to the ABC and Fairfax to get closest to the truth.

[dbo121]

I note the word closest.. don’t disagree with abc but Fairfax !

[Jdude95]

By the end of all of this, it's looking more like Dreamworld will just sit dormant as Ardent closes it down and the company dissolves. Hopefully a theme park company can come in and pick Dreamworld up. Then they can begin to rebuild that trust and be fully transparent about their safety measures, one day bringing Dreamworld back to being a force in the industry like it used to be.

[pushbutton]

Not very much substantial new information but here's todays Courier Mail update. 

 

[pushbutton]

8 hours ago, Jdude95 said:

By the end of all of this, it's looking more like Dreamworld will just sit dormant as Ardent closes it down and the company dissolves. Hopefully a theme park company can come in and pick Dreamworld up. Then they can begin to rebuild that trust and be fully transparent about their safety measures, one day bringing Dreamworld back to being a force in the industry like it used to be.

If I were any such new operator, I really think I'd have to give the park a new name, and a massive investment to really get away from the negative perceptions of how things were in the past.

I haven't got a name in mind at the moment, but I do think that's what is needed.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I don't think a name change is necessary. Perhaps an addendum (as a gross example, if Six Flags were to purchase they'd tack the SF onto the name) but i don't think Dreamworld as a brand has been destroyed. Ardent certainly has been hit, but much of the negative reporting has identified Ardent as the operator of the park, who has not done \ not said \ not implemented etc etc.

Dreamworld's identity isn't getting the thrashing that Ardent is, and for that I think if Ardent sells, and sells publicly, confidence in the new operator with a good track record will be restored. For this reason it has to be someone with experience. It cannot be some random consortium looking to add a jewel to their portfolio for a bargain.

[Brad2912]

So ‘Clive Palmers’ Dreamworld’ doesn’t work for you? 😜