Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

[razza1987]

48 minutes ago, themeparkaddict said:

That was when the themeing was removed

 

47 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

My understanding is the set builds were found to be a fire hazard or in breach of an updated fire code, hence their hastily removal 

Thank you both for answering. I had no idea that the theming had been removed from SDSC. I saw a video on YouTube of what it looks like without theming and I have to say that it looks pretty scary riding a roller coaster in almost pitch black darkness Xd. I hope they add theming soon though. 

Staying on topic the twitter account I’ve been following for updates on the inquest is @leae. She is posting constant tweets on what is going on at the inquest

[New display name]

13 minutes ago, pushbutton said:

To be fair he said he thought it was a possibility worth investigating. It was investigated, and very quickly found not to be a possibility after all.

Having seen it after the mountain was removed, it was immediately very obvious to me without any technical knowledge whatsoever, that it was way beyond repair!

Oh my god.   Now you're a chief ride inspector.  

Edited June 27, 2018 by Skeeta

[elemist]

39 minutes ago, RossL said:

It is pretty clear that each witness has their own best interest in some ways as well.  Operators blame management and management blames operators.  It is a natural conflict.

How Craig Davidson is still CEO is a very good question though.

Everyone's out to cover their own asses here, always the way in any fault finding mission. What hasn't been clearly stated - that i've found - is whether or not the e stop was actually triggered. The operator says they did, the trainer and police officers seem to indicate that it *may* not have been.

If its found that it wasn't triggered, then the operators may be at least in a small way responsible. Ultimately operating a ride is a serious business, and a big responsibility. There should be consequences to not performing your job, especially given there was 4 fatalities. I'm pretty sure what they've been through, and will continue to go through for the rest of their lives is punishment enough though.

Now before anyone goes after me with a pitch fork and flaming torch, i do believe Dreamworld are clearly at fault. Also even if the operators didn't trip the e stop, there's so many contributing factors such as confusion around how it worked, instructions to only use certain buttons in certain circumstances, whether it was confusing/labelled correctly etc etc.

What i'm personally finding confronting is how any of these issues were allowed to occur. I expect these kind of safety issues to happen in some third world country where safety inspectors get paid off to look the other way, not here in Australia where we have morals and ethics, not to mention fines and enforcement. I guess what i'm saying is that despite cheaper tickets, run down appearances and other obvious corner cutting - you still assume the park is safe. I've found talking to a lot of people about the incident prior to the inquest were very much of the default opinion that this was just a freak accident, and that ultimately the park was safe.. having heard a few of these testimony's i'm not sure i will ever go back to Dreamworld - at least under the current management.

If it's determined that Dreamworld are at fault - i really hope there's actual punishment for the people involved, not just fines to the company.

[pushbutton]

20 minutes ago, Skeeta said:

Oh my god.   Now you're a chief ride inspector.  

I suppose so

[rappa]

Whats also amazing is that the system didn't even log the stop button pushes... like it clearly was a piece of shit being held together bby chewing gum from the 80s

[MacPark]

1 hour ago, djrappa said:

 like it clearly was a piece of shit being held together bby chewing gum from the 80s

Thats dreamworld in general really

[Jdude95]

4 hours ago, Coasters R Us said:

I wish @Jdude95 was reporting from the inquest today. The Twitter feeds are nowhere near as informative as his/her notes and half the journos don't even make sense. 

 

3 hours ago, dbo121 said:

Agreed. Take a sick day And get back to it!

HAHAHA! I'm sorry guys. I was having car troubles today and by the time I got it sorted, I would have only got the last hour or two of the day so I figured it wasn't worth the drive. Don't worry, I will be back at the inquest tomorrow and live posting!

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

4 hours ago, red dragin said:

Wasn't Scooby picked up in the post incident audit?

And given the time to design the new Scooby experience, Movie World was clearly going to stick with the status quo.

Indeed it was, however - flaw identified, big cost to fix (as well as hit to image)... it was in the vein of what was suggested.

4 hours ago, razza1987 said:

What happened with Scooby? I must have missed that 

This is precisely one of the things i've been talking about.

https://www.parkz.com.au/forums/topic/7706-scooby-doo-spooky-coaster-refurb-in-novdec-2017/

Clearly you've seen it now, but perhaps when someone references an event like that so casually, assume it's been discussed in detail, and try and do a little searching before blurting out the question?

 

Anyhow - big thanks to @jdude for efforts so far, hope you don't miss the screening of the CCTV, hope you can record it when it's shown, and looking forward to your reports tomorrow!

[Jdude95]

Okay everyone, I know I wasn't able to make it today but I have compiled all the notes I took from yesterday and cleaned them up. As I mentioned, Ms Crisp completed a 3 hour walkthrough of the ride with QPS and WHS. 2 hours of this video was shown and i've added into the document some interesting things that I noticed while watching the walkthrough. 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ayw6_NjtaBHoLiTlSBDNzXoQtiVORt8NTzrVIbsZFzI/edit?usp=sharing

[RabbiJody]

2 hours ago, Jdude95 said:

Okay everyone, I know I wasn't able to make it today but I have compiled all the notes I took from yesterday and cleaned them up. As I mentioned, Ms Crisp completed a 3 hour walkthrough of the ride with QPS and WHS. 2 hours of this video was shown and i've added into the document some interesting things that I noticed while watching the walkthrough. 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ayw6_NjtaBHoLiTlSBDNzXoQtiVORt8NTzrVIbsZFzI/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks so much Jdude95, we appreciate your hard work. 

It’s been reported that the ‘rails’ were installed in the trough in June 2016. I assume these are the train track looking metal rails throughout the load/unload section of the ride, installed to prevent the rafts from bottoming out if the water level drops. 

Photos of the accident show the first raft sitting on a metal frame that appears to be an extension of those rails. This is obviously where the raft stopped when the water level fell due to the pump failure. 

Im wondering if this metal frame is indeed a part of the rails and was installed at the same time (4 months before the accident)? It would seem that if this frame wasn’t there the first raft would still have been bouyant enough in the water to not get stuck even if the water level dropped. 

Jdude95, your report says the court was shown a photo of the similar 2001 incident. Did you see that at all? If so are you able to explain how that looked? 

Thanks again. 

[themagician]

To provide some context to anyone unsure about what @RabbiJody is referring to about these railings. I posted this photo in May 2016 when these railings were installed during the rides maintenance period.

[RabbiJody]

6 minutes ago, themagician said:

To provide some context to anyone unsure about what @RabbiJody is referring to about these railings. I posted this photo in May 2016 when these railings were installed during the rides maintenance period.

Thanks magician. Those may be the rails they’re talking about in court. Are those towards the end of the ride?

I thought they may be talking about these ones, but maybe these have always been there. I can’t see how a similar incident (in 2001) could happen if this frame part wasn’t there. 

[Jdude95]

35 minutes ago, RabbiJody said:

Jdude95, your report says the court was shown a photo of the similar 2001 incident. Did you see that at all? If so are you able to explain how that looked?

Yes, I saw that photo. I have seen anything that has been shown to the court. It looked exactly how the rafts looked in 2016 with one raft flipped and resting against the other. One of the seatbacks has been slightly torn apart but i'm not sure if that was caused by the conveyor belt or not.
In regards to the rails. The photos magician posted are indeed the rails and they run all the way around through the station including that metal platform that the first raft is resting on in the 2016 incident.

[RabbiJody]

Was the metal platform there in the 2001 photo? I would assume it would have to be in order for the first raft to stop in that location. 

I apologise for being pedantic. I had thought that if that platform was added in June 2016 along with the rails, it would have caused the first raft to get stuck when the water level dropped. It doesn’t help that the gap between the platform and the conveyor is just big enough for another raft the get wedged in. This modification, coupled with the removal of two thirds of the slats on the conveyor, allowing the conveyor to ‘grip’ the second raft, lead to the accident. Just my musing. 

Should take a nap now. 

[Jdude95]

13 minutes ago, RabbiJody said:

Was the metal platform there in the 2001 photo? I would assume it would have to be in order for the first raft to stop in that location. 

I apologise for being pedantic. I had thought that if that platform was added in June 2016 along with the rails, it would have caused the first raft to get stuck when the water level dropped. It doesn’t help that the gap between the platform and the conveyor is just big enough for another raft the get wedged in. This modification, coupled with the removal of two thirds of the slats on the conveyor, allowing the conveyor to ‘grip’ the second raft, lead to the accident. Just my musing. 

Should take a nap now. 

The picture wasn't at a high angle so it was hard to tell. The photos were taken from the station area. I'm not sure what caused the first raft to become stuck as it wasn't mentioned when they were discussing it. The general vibe I've been getting from the courtroom is that they are more pointing fingers at people and aren't looking as much into the mechanical and modification side of it. I'm really hoping the focus shifts more towards the mechanical side of things before the inquest is over.

[elemist]

Will the video / photos shown in the inquest be released to the public at the conclusion?

[Coasters R Us]

7 hours ago, Jdude95 said:

HAHAHA! I'm sorry guys. I was having car troubles today and by the time I got it sorted, I would have only got the last hour or two of the day so I figured it wasn't worth the drive. Don't worry, I will be back at the inquest tomorrow and live posting!

No, thank you, you are doing the Lord's work. Very insightful. 

 

1 hour ago, RabbiJody said:

I apologise for being pedantic.

Nothing wrong at all with that. I am a total newbie around here so I don't want to make a dick of myself but I have a heap of questions from some of the contradictory testimony that has been given at the inquest so far. 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Coasters R Us
Missed a comma

[pushbutton]

Does anyone know whether similar rides elsewhere in the world have these rails?

Also do any have some slats removed from their conveyors?

Are the E Stops set up the same? 

If not, were these modifications approved by the rides manufacturer / a competent authority? 

I am curious about this, and also wonder if these questions have arisen at the inquest. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by pushbutton

[Levithian]

Cant find someone culpable and sue them directly without proving negligence. 

Turning up to work and doing something wrong by accident or in the heat of the moment isnt negligence and you cant be personally liable. Thats what companies have insurance policies for. That someone is going to do a bad job one day and they are going to be sued for it. 

Worst is your employer can be sued for the incident, and the staff will probably lose their job and insurance companies pickup the tab. 

So heaping all the blame on an operator is not going to change things for dreamworld come the civil suits. All it does is make them look like bastards for hanging their employees out to dry. It only highlights that maybe those employees shouldnt have been running the ride. Through lack of training, lack of experience or lack of confidence; ultimately it doesnt matter as they put those people in that situation and it is their responsibility to not only provide a safe environment for guests, but employees too. 

So staffing someone with current training but little to no experience or demonstrated confidence in operating the ride does not mean the employee is competent. All the training in the world is a moot point it the staff are not confident enough to put it into practice or unable to demonstrate competency based on their work. 

Training someone that morning and turning them over to the ride the same day does not prove competency. Its something that will probably be raised in the findings when the inquest finishes. That training standards and methods were lacking and the inexperience and lack of confidence shown by the ride operators contributed to the deaths. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Levithian

[joel]

3 hours ago, pushbutton said:

 

If not, were these modifications approved by the rides manufacturer / a competent authority? 

Problem with TRR is Dreamworld built it themeselves so they did not need a manufactures approval

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

3 hours ago, pushbutton said:

Does anyone know whether similar rides elsewhere in the world have these rails?

Also do any have some slats removed from their conveyors?

Are the E Stops set up the same? 

If not, were these modifications approved by the rides manufacturer / a competent authority? 

I am curious about this, and also wonder if these questions have arisen at the inquest. 

@pushbutton, as you should well know by now, but for the benefit of anyone who doesn't - TRRR was built in house at Dreamworld. They ARE the manufacturer. There was speculation that Intamin built it because the ride had some Intamin inner tubes, but it turned out the park had just bought the tubes from them.

Wonderland (audible groan from the audience) had an Intamin installation. They also stopped their turntable from spinning, but the modified set up was done differently to dreamworld, and the conveyor had automatic stops and a block system through the station.

There were never underground rails to prevent bottoming out.

I will say though, that I believe the station rails were installed prior to the general 'track' rails.

1 hour ago, Levithian said:

Training someone that morning and turning them over to the ride the same day does not prove competency. Its something that will probably be raised in the findings when the inquest finishes. That training standards and methods were lacking and the inexperience and lack of confidence shown by the ride operators contributed to the deaths. 

It's not like they were left alone though... they were still under the supervision and direction of a more senior ride operator whilst they consolidated their training...

[dbo121]

people speak of this turntable . It never had one? If so where exactly .

That old conveyor belt. Should have at least been a manually operated positive action not a negative one in emergency instead of always on. 

Its crazy to think people are so young and put in the supervisor or training roles . But given what the pay packet is for these jobs people with a bit more experience in life are most likely less interested .

 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by dbo121

[themagician]

@dbo121 Every-time you would enter the rafts you would walk on the turntable, but it is easiest to see on a satellite image

[dbo121]

Name Implies it’s turns to me . Oh well . Good photo 

[New display name]

5 hours ago, pushbutton said:

Does anyone know whether similar rides elsewhere in the world have these rails?

Bigfoot Rapids has some type of rail system before the conveyor.

 

@RabbiJodyThe raft was stopped in the unload bay.

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Skeeta