Thunder River Rapids Incident Coronial Inquest

[JaggedJanine]

31 minutes ago, Skeeta said:

Should theme parks carry out emergency drills?  Does VRTP carry out emergency drills?

 

VRTP definitely carry out emergency drills. Batwing did one the other week. Arkham does one every 6 months I believe with the fire brigade. All rides also have a fire evac time trial every week.

[red dragin]

VRTP only told us they did post 2016 events. 

[MickeyD]

I once participated in a drill with the Fire brigade at MW and was evacuated from the LW lift back in 1996.

[JaggedJanine]

19 minutes ago, red dragin said:

VRTP only told us they did post 2016 events. 

Doesn't mean they didn't do them before then. Just means they didn't make it public knowledge.

[red dragin]

7 minutes ago, JaggedJanine said:

Doesn't mean they didn't do them before then. Just means they didn't make it public knowledge.

That's why I added the told us bit. Dreamworld possibly do too, but avoid drawing attention to emergency services being at their park due to the way the media might misreport it. 

[Levithian]

Lots of talk, but it really comes down to a few things;

Were proceedures in place that demonstrate when the ride cannot be operated / shut down and were the operators aware and practiced in their use. 

Were safety systems in place to limit risk to guests, and were those systems working/in place when the accident happened. 

Were operators sufficiently trained in the full operation of the ride, and were they confident in their abilities. 

Problems with the ride design, systems or operations in its previous and current state.

Were any modifications made to the ride outside of its production and was supporting documentation of implementing any changes produced.

With the ride previously experiencing faults, was anything missed or overlooked to allow the ride to continue operation. 

And if questions were raised on the day during previous faults, did anyone give the authority to reopen the ride rather than keep closed for repair or further investigation.

 

They arent putting the operators on trial. The indepth questions directed at them are not just used to establish a timeline events, but to also establish what the work environment / culture was like at the park with regards to training and experience. 

The timeline of events and anything that previously happened during the day that should have seen the ride closed directs issue back to the supervisors and any managers that may have allowed the ride to continue to operate when it should have been closed.

How people act, what they do and how confident they are directly reflects back on the operation of the park. Pointing the blame at one or even two operators is basically small fish, unless you can establish they were negligent (which is near impossible). What they are more interested in is training, safety, park operation and proceedures. Ultimately a combination of these are responsible for any incident that occurs, so they want to see the inner workings of the park and what is lacking at the top. 

 The park would be committing suicide by trying to hang any blame on an operator. They are responsible for placing them in that work environment and also have a duty of care to the staff to make sure they are adequately trained and experienced to operate safely within that environment. So someone unsure of their role, responsibilities or actions only demonstrates the park let them down too. 

 

[Brad2912]

Some guy on FB commenting on one of the articles claims to have been a senior ride op on TRR for over a decade and is adamant that an e-stop button is in place at the unload point that stops the conveyor. He says this is a different e-stop to the one at the main controls and the one down the walkway near the conveyor itself - so essentially a third e-stop. He states it was in place when he left the business a few years back so was there unless removed 

[joel]

Seen as though I get bullied for it. Cough couch @Skeeta. Show me the source!

[New display name]

22 hours ago, joel said:

Someone who finally believes me that the second e-stop is at the top of the hill. 

 

 

@joel There's a guy on Gold Coast Weather & News Facebook site saying you are full of poo poo.  His saying he worked at DW for 10 years and the unload area had a E-Stop. 

 

[Brad2912]

Yeah same guy I was referring to

[New display name]

Sorry, @Brad2912 for some reason I didn't see your post.

39 minutes ago, joel said:

Seen as though I get bullied for it. Cough couch @Skeeta. Show me the source!

?????  You make shit up because you get bullied or you are getting bullied because you said it. ?????

If you have a cough some cough syrup might do the trick unless you have a lie stuck in the throat.   Nothing helps a lie.

 

[Brad2912]

Nothing shits me more than muppets who shout “bully” at people who just disagree with them or point out an error in their argument. 

All that does it then diminish, downplay & dilute the true seriousness of real bullying which is a massive issue. 

[New display name]

Then you come across this @Brad2912 and you don't know what to think. 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Skeeta

[rappa]

It's all a moot point. They shouldn't have had to run to a button because appropriate automated controls should have been in place to stop the conveyor. 

[dbo121]

Yes it’s  a moot point. But still want to know all the finer details. If this fact is correct though it would have been asked to Courtney.

[Levithian]

Old mate jason on that facebook group also went further to say he used to work on and service the ride with engineering. An operator.. working on the ride... so what he says comes from experience....

Even if true, it just further shows how dreamworld pretty much wrote their own policies and did what ever they wanted.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Levithian

[pushbutton]

Gold Coast Bulletin today 

Courier Mail 

 

 

[Brad2912]

RAFT COLLISION HAS HAPPENED PREVIOUSLY

JUNE 22, 2018

AN electrician did not attend the second failure of the south pump on the day of the Thunder River Rapids Ride disaster, the Dreamworld inquest has heard.

Dreamworld mechanic Matthew Robertson has told the inquest it was the usual practice for a mechanic and electrician to be rostered on each day as park technicians.

One the day of the disaster, which killed four people when a water pump failed just after 2pm on October 25, 2016, two mechanics had been rostered on to attend any breakdowns that day.

The disaster occurred after the south pump failed for the third time that day.

Mr Robertson said when the first breakdown occurred at 11.50am the mechanics called in help from an electrician who then showed them how to fix the pump”.

“They (electricians) were distracted, there were other issues electrically in other aspects of the park,” he said.

“I thought that if we knew and were allowed to reset them it would speed the process up.”

When the pump failed again at 1.09pm, Mr Robertson went to the ride with a fellow mechanic.

Mr Robertson said he remained at the Thunder River Rapids Ride control panel when the other mechanic went to another part of the ride.

“I’m not 100 per cent if it was communicated to me before or after (that he) attended the (pump) drive room,” he said.

“He returned and said he had reset the pumps.”

Mr Robertson said the south pump then started and the pair signed off the maintenance log.

He said he was asked by ride supervisor Sarah Cotter about what they were going to do about the pump dropping out.

Mr Robertson told the inquest he told her it was their policy to shut the ride down for the day if the same fault happened for a third time.

He said he had been told that policy a week or two earlier.

A THUNDER River Rapids Ride operator was terminated from Dreamworld after two rafts collided on the conveyor almost two years before the disaster, an inquest has heard.

No one was injured in the November 2014 incident which saw the man fired almost two years before the terrifying tragedy which killed four people.

Barrister Steven Whybrow, acting for the families of Ms Goodchild and Mr Dorsett, this morning read from the employee’s termination letter.

The letter said after a pump shut down on the ride, “a raft containing guests has bottomed out at the top of the conveyor due to water supply”.

“An additional raft containing guests has then collided with it and continued to be pushed by the conveyor until it was shut down,” Mr Whybrow read from the letter.

Ride operator Chloe Brix, who has worked on the Thunder River Rapids Ride since 2013, said operators were never told about the incident or debriefed on safety procedures following the 2014 incident.

Ms Brix said she only found out about the other employees termination through gossip.

 

 

#Dreamworld inquest: Matthew Robertson says there was a new system installed on the Thunder River Rapids ride that would shut down the conveyor belt if rafts got too close, but there were “issues” with the sensors @SkyNewsAust

11:00 AM - Jun 22, 2018 · Gold Coast,

[red dragin]

I've edited this, as the bit missing is that the former operator shut down the pumps whilst people where still on the ride.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-22/dreamworld-coronial-inquest-incident-two-years-earlier/9897602

That article also states no warning light/buzzer was in place to indicate that a pump has stopped working.

But still, my original comments below I still feel still stands.

 

If it was serious enough to fire someone over, it was serious enough to:
a) train/tool box talk with staff about
b) investigate ways to avoid it reoccurring
c) implement a solution.

I think it just got really bad for Dreamworld, until now I still felt it was a 'freak accident' that only hindsight could have solved and was otherwise unforeseen.

Edited June 22, 2018 by red dragin
additional article

[Levithian]

Got to be kidding. 

They literally have nowhere to hide. If they fired someone for a safety breech, evidently water levels are a very serious issue. 

If that wasnt drummed into their staff following dismissal of the employee, they need a huge kick up the arse.

I was willing to give everyone the benefit of doubt and not point any blame at people, but it looks like both operations and maintenance department supervisors/heads/leaders have a lot to answer for. 

Its starting to look like their employees might even have a case to take the company to court for failing to provide adequate training and a safe working environment.

Keeping everyone in the dark, withholding information, shit like that is the worst kind of micromanaging. It robs all employees the chance to learn from past mistakes and fails to acknowledge or address any issues that might save the company from repeating those same mistakes again. 

I literally cannot understand why you wouldnt use past incidences as a learning tool. Aside from it giving you a chance to update the control systems to close any loop holes in safety; You have everything at your disposal for personel training. A real incident to examine, the people, the ride it happened on. You could literally walk newly trained operators through and explain not only the events and proceedures to make sure that never happens again, but also drive home the importance of the safety aspect, right while they are standing there. 

It's just incredible. 

[Brad2912]

Pretty much agree with your thoughts @Levithian 

i don’t blame the ride ops - it’s management. Not providing adequate training, or adequate safety systems/policies. 

The fact they haven’t had emergency response training SINCE 4 people died in the Park is utterly unbelievable. 

Back in my retail management days, I had a staff member break an ankle when an incorrectly stored pallet fell onto his leg. I used that opportunity to document and develop a new safety plan, and every single person in the business had to read documentation, show a physical understanding of it, and sign to say they understood and took accountability for it. This is commonplace in many industries - to think it isn’t in use in a theme park is borderline terrifying. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Brad2912

[themeparkaddict]

Exactly the same here, I work in a basic fast food outlet and have to put up with insane amounts of safety procedures all the time. We even get regularly quizzed AND graded on our knowledge of safety procedures. Why hasn't this been the same at Dreamworld?

Clearly from the developing stories we can make the conclusion that there has been negligence at Dreamworld and I do not believe that the park is in the right position to be safely operated even today. We've seen examples of this numerous times over the past months and year. I believe that the best course of action from here is to force some changes, so they can sort their shit out and restructure management to smaller levels of hierarchy, implement relevant safety procedures and training, fix up their maintenance team, andmost importantly fix up their rides using safety implementations which are actually useful and not a total waste of time, space and resources (shockwave, log ride) 

 

[webslave]

We. Don't. Know. That. Yet.  Do you think if someone had an accident at work and were hauled in to answer questions about it that their first response would ever be "yes, we have had heaps of training on it - I just decided not to do it"?  To an extent this is the type of testimony anyone would be expecting to hear at this early stage.

There's already been a number of items of testimony that either don't make sense or don't line up with one another (based on the reports).  This alone should be sufficient for you to not yet be deciding who is negligent and who is not.

[Brad2912]

I am no theme park CEO, but i can pretty safely say if I was one and one of my rides was decommissioned after people died on it I would sure as hell make certain any trace of said ride was removed from my social media feeds... 

 

[reubot]

The families have made their mind on who is at fault:

"We hold Dreamworld totally responsible for this tragic event that could have so easily been avoided."